How 'bout them Duggars?

[LinkH]

None of it is "gossip"...the information is available. Did you check out their "family conference" website. I have the books from the seminars they attended...it's some seriously jacked up stuff.

Daddy owns the towing company...if son displeases daddy, son is out of a job.

Is it so bad for a son to work for his father in a family business? In centuries past, this was a very normal thing to do. Israelite men worked on their father's farm until they got their inheritance.

oldest daughter has NO post-secondary education.

So what? Isn't that better than borrowing or spending a lot of money to get a degree and THEN getting some lame retail job like a lot of college grads do these days?

the rest are not 'self supporting' with the exception of the one son in law who works for walmart...but daddy gave them the house...so they're beholden to daddy.

I don't see anything scandalous about this. A lot of us are beholden to our parents. Most parents sacrifice a lot for their kids.

 

[Hetta]

Some of my most baby-obsessed facebook friends seem to fawn over the Duggars and their family that grows at an alarming rate.
I always see their updates get posted to people's feeds every time one of them gets married or has a pregnancy 5 minutes later.

I know that the parents, who started having all these kids back in the 80's, are part of a group called the "Quiverfulls", a Southern-baptist sect type thing where the marriages center around that bible verse about kids being "arrows in your quiver for when you need to fight off the enemy"
and so the wife becomes a homemaker and not only does the couple not practice birth control, they also try to get pregnant as much as they can resulting in a baby about every 2 years sometimes less.

But what about the kids? The grown kids were given someone to court when they reached age 19 or 20 and were engaged and married off quickly. Then, they announced a baby months later.
Somehow, I don't think they would be doing it like that if it weren't for fame and TLC paying their bills?
Like, sure the parents would encourage them to get married young and have short engagements, but I think the babies would come at a slower rate if it weren't for the limelight.

What do you think?

I can't stand anything about them, and thank goodness I never have their tv show inflicted on me.

No, I don't think they would even be in the news if they weren't constantly having babies. I mean, getting paid for having babies? On what planet does that concept exist? ISTM that now the parents can't have anymore, now the kids take over to keep the money flowing in. However, the one who just gave birth had a C-section so, ironically, she will be very, very limited on how many kids she can now have, because typically you can only have a couple of c-sections because the scar tissue builds up and the skin gets thinner, and they rarely allow a woman who had a c-section birth to have a vaginal birth because of the risk of the 'straining'. So, that's the end of their pay check at that point.

The whole thing is cynical marketing. Just m.o.

 

[Hetta]

So what? Isn't that better than borrowing or spending a lot of money to get a degree and THEN getting some lame retail job like a lot of college grads do these days?

But it was okay for you to get PhD? Do you have a lame retail job?

Everyone who is capable should be encouraged to see further education, if nothing else, because it opens the mind.

 

[bluegreysky]

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[South Bound]

Everyone who is capable should be encouraged to see further education, if nothing else, because it opens the mind.

If you believe college is the only place your mind can be opened, then it doesn't sound like you have a very open mind.

 

[Hetta]

If you believe college is the only place your mind can be opened, then it doesn't sound like you have a very open mind.

<yawn>

 

[bluegreysky]

I don't think that at all! I went to college, and I are still dumb.

My husband is back in college but he got his life lessons in the military
and he is only going to school because it will help him start a business.
he's really too smart for college.

 

[k.eliza91]

I think a lot of people are judging their Christian world view based on their own secular world view. I believe back in biblical times, Mary, mother of our Savior, had little say so in who she married. And she was most likely around 14 or 15 when she was pregnant. But no one is accusing her of not being able to 'find herself' through dating many different people or by living on her own. No one is saying that her parents are terrible for 'forcing' her into marriage with Joseph, a man that asked her FATHER, not Mary to marry her. On that note, I'd like to point out (because I have seen their entire show, and read their books) that Jim Bob did NOT pick their spouses and force them into a marriage. Josh (the oldest) met his spouse at a homeschool conference. Jill was introduced by her father to this guy that Jim bob was mentoring, and then she, after meeting him decided rather she liked him. Jessa met her spouse at a church(and they courted for 11 months before getting married, and knew each other before courting). Yes, all of them asked the father to marry the daughter, but I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

They tend to get pregnant after marriage because it's (I want to stress this part).... their belief(as individuals & as family)...that children are a gift from God and want to have as many as He gives them. I don't see how Christians can be so judgmental on that. Them getting pregnant over and over again, is a gift that God has given them. He gave them healthy and very fertile bodies. Coming from a woman who has fertility issues, I think it's a great gift to have.

IF the father arranged marriages for them, then I highly doubt that he would take so long to 'arrange' the marriages of Jana & John-David who are 25. at the same time, if the children viewed that as a way out, why wait so long? Why not snatch the first one that shows interests?....They believe God gives them their mate. Again, Christians shouldn't have an issue with that point of view.


Judging ANY women for choosing to be a homemaker & wife, instead of abiding by the secular world view that women HAVE to work to be a respectable woman is disgusting. There's no other word I can think of. My mom worked for most of my childhood because she HAD to, and we both suffered for it. When she was able to not work, she took it. And when she found a job she loved, she took it. It's the woman, and the families choice rather she WANTS to or not. I choose to be a stay at home wife, take care of the house and the pets and most of all my husband, am I less of a woman because of it?

And likewise, saying that a man who works for their father or father in law is less of a man is just as disgusting. It was common back in biblical times, that the son/son in law work for the father. I highly doubt any man thought "I can't do the work that was most likely started a few generations ago, passed down from son to son, because that will make me less a man"

I don't think saying that somebody is less than a person or uneducated for not going to college is right. Going to college is a CHOICE. And if their belief tells them not to go, or not to go right now. No one should judge that. Jill's husband went to college, Jessa's husband is taking online classes and planning on going into seminary. And, one of the Duggar kids is actually IN callege right now.

The Duggars are Godly people, they are nice and loving people because that's the way God made them, through birth AND through accepting Jesus as their Savior. The children, behave because they raise them to know Jesus, and his teachings, and know how to be kind. And most of all, they feel loved by their parents and their Father. Because they don't 'rebel' is a poor excuse to justify they are some sort terrible, oppressing parent. I PRAY that my kids, if God gives them to me, feel so loved that they feel no need to rebel. I thought most parents felt that way?

They handle everything through God, they study the bible as a family every night. When they lost their daughter, one of the hardest things a parent can go through I'm sure, they turned to God! The very moment they found out that the baby she was carrying had no heartbeat anymore, they turned to their Father as a family. They don't spend all their time in front of the tv or computer screen, so they have time to BE a family. So many parents today live their life without using TV or internet as a baby sitter half the time. It's sad but true. There modest, their belief is to wear skirts. They don't tell you your wrong for not wearing skirts as a woman. It's just what they believe. How can any bible reading, God fearing Christian say that what they do is wrong? I don't and won't understand it.

The reason I feel so strongly about the Duggars, as silly as it might sound to you, is that they helped me turn to Christ. Not long after I started watching them, something personal happened to me that slapped me in the face and said I need Christ in my life. I looked to them as a role model as I was starting to read the bible and give my life to Christ. There isn't a lot of shows about good Christian people on. So, them 'being in the spotlight' has helped me, and I'm sure others to come to Christ. And I am sure they would be thrilled and humbled by that. And say that is why they started it, as a ministry.

I know that some of you people can tear everything that I said apart. And I sure you will. I don't care. But I everything I said comes from their show, and their books and their websites. The only source I can get it from. I can only take what they say as how they feel and as their truth. If they say that they're not in the Quiverfull whatever...then I can only see it as truth until they say otherwise. And I think the point of this is, maybe we, as followers of Christ should have a more Christ world view rather than a secular one, that tells us that we should do what the flesh wants. And be as the flesh wants us to be. And maybe we shouldn't judge someone who has a different lifestyle, different view and different God given calling than you.

 

[LinkH]

Maybe If I actually met them that would be different, somehow I just dont think a woman who grows up in a crowded home until 19, never gets to live on her own, and gets married to a man her dad picked out and then 2 months later gets pregnant can really truly be happy or free to know her identity... in God or in herself. They just don't know any different because that's all they know.

If something deviates from your own experience and the experience you know, that doesn't mean the people who experience it aren't happy. You could ask the Duggar girls if they are happy. If they are happy, and their lifestyle is all they have known, what's wrong with that? I'd rather see a girl raised in the situation you describe than allowed to date anyone she want to, and fornicate all over the place, go to college and get drunk, and fornicate, and after she was all washed up and used up, with her prime fertility years behind her, decide to convince her live-in boyfriend to 'man up' and marry her and take care of her and the two kids she had with other guys. Then he has to decide how to work the other kid he had with his other baby momma into the equation.

Also, what you describe is probably fairly typical of wives throughout much of history, including Biblical history. Is there anything about that that we should suspect is displeasing to God? Why couldn't she 'know her own identity....in God' if she grew up in a crowded home and get married young? I'm not following your argument.

For a young Christian man looking for a wife, I can't help but think that a woman raised this way, if her faith is sincere and she's got a good, stable personality, could make a good potential wife. If she's very much dedicated to being a wife and having kids, that sure sounds like a better prospect than dating some girl in her mid 20's that hasn't decided she's serious about marriage yet. The stereotype is of men not wanting to commit to marriage, but I've know there are Christian men who've put a lot of time into dating women who weren't all that serious about marriage. That's an engrained cultural thing. People will date, without being serious about marriage--- too busy finding themselves and their own identity.

Btw, I haven't watched the whole series, but I did watch some of the marriage and engagement related episodes because I was curious about how they did courtship. The two girls sure seemed to want to get married to those young men. One of them was the dad's online prayer partner. I wonder if he got to know Jim Bob with the idea in the back of his head that one of his daughters might be a good match. But after the two started online chatting, the girl sure seemed to genuinely grow to like and then love the young man.

The question is, is the father being involved in the choice of spouse displeasing to God? I'd say a definite 'no' to that. In fact, I see more reason to think that God may displeased when fathers are not involved in the selection of the spouses of their children, especially their daughters. Look at the laws the LORD gave about it in the Old Testament. The father gives the daughter away in marriage. He could refuse to allow a marriage with a man who seduces his daughter, for example.

But we aren't seeing JimBob say, "You have to marry this man." He did a little match making. I think the older son met his wife at one of their conferences of people from a family that may also have done the courtship thing. It looks like they picked each other out.

I've got three girls and one of my concerns is whether I should send any of them off to college away from home, or just keep them in the home until they marry. That may involve following them around to college around the world. I wouldn't be totally opposed to a daughter not going to college and getting married young, if the potential match were a very worthy man.

In my wife's culture, consent of parents to marriage is culturally necessary, though not legally required. I'm definitely teaching this to my kids. When they came home singing Rude by Magic!, I sat down with them, watched it, and critiqued the story line. Then for laughs, we watched a spoof of it, "Why you gotta call me rude." They thought that was funny.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

I shoulda just stuck to subjects like gluten-free fritatas and how to make clothes out of paper and stuff I actually know what i'm talking about.

Making clothes out of paper?

 

[bluegreysky]

.

 

[LinkH]

If you believe college is the only place your mind can be opened, then it doesn't sound like you have a very open mind.

That's a good quote. Mind if I use it?

I'm not anti-higher-education. I've got a masters and I'm ABD working on my dissertation. I plan to work in academia. But it is foolish to judge the value of someone's life (the life they live out, I mean, rather than their intrinsic worth) by whether they go to college or not.

 

[LinkH]

yeah it's all the rage in Sweden

What if it rains? I'd imagine the clothing manufacturers and vendors would love that. They could turn their inventory faster. People would have to buy new clothes every other day.

 

[LinkH]

But it was okay for you to get PhD? Do you have a lame retail job?

I'm a PhD student and my wife and I sell food at block parties on the side. A lame retail job could be a step up for me at the moment in some ways. I do hope to have a decent job in the next several months at a university.

Education is a good route to earning a living for a lot of people, but some fields don't pay very well, and it can be hard for some graduates to get a job.

In the past, a college degree opened doors. Now it's treated like table stakes at a lot of companies and for a lot of jobs. But there are also a lot of people who do better going to trade school or just learning a trade. The last I checked here locally, real estate agents needed to have a few weeks of course work to get started. Real estate appraisers also needed a short course to start work at a kind of apprenticeship level. CNAs study for about a week, and if one had the right contacts and go the right experience, a CNA could run a small elder care facility, eventually. There are schools for mechanics and various other trades.

I do think small business owners could benefit from the equivalent of three or four, maybe five college level business courses: accounting, finance, management, marketing, and maybe micro-economics. Some sort of training in how to prepare for their taxes would be helpful, but I didn't get that in business school. Maybe some of the accountants did.

Everyone who is capable should be encouraged to see further education, if nothing else, because it opens the mind.

Or people can just go to the library or learn some research skills and use the Internet and read on their own. I think it's a lousy deal to spend $60,000 just to 'open your mind' if your education doesn't lead to earning a living or something else that is beneficial. Smoking pot opens people's minds. It can make them sound like idiots, but their minds sure are opened. And a lot of pot smokers would spend less than that smoking over the course of 4 years. (I'm not in favor of smoking pot.)

Isn't high school supposed to educate people? Why are we sending youths to high school?

 

[annafullofgrace]

None of it is "gossip"...the information is available. Did you check out their "family conference" website. I have the books from the seminars they attended...it's some seriously jacked up stuff.

Daddy owns the towing company...if son displeases daddy, son is out of a job.

how do you know this?

oldest daughter has NO post-secondary education.

She's actually a doula and a seamstress.

the rest are not 'self supporting' with the exception of the one son in law who works for walmart...but daddy gave them the house...so they're beholden to daddy.

Incorrect. They are living there until the house sells. Why does that matter anyway? They have the opportunity to save money and buy later...just as the oldest son did.

Please go find out about IBLP. It is some seriously scary stuff. SERIOUSLY scary. I did my homework when my brother started getting involved. Thank God he saw the light and walked away before he got in too deep. On the outside the Duggars look like this nice, very conservative Christian family. However, behind the curtain it is some seriously messed up stuff.

Do you know them personally?


I'd also like to say that I'm pleased to see a debate going without anyone being nasty.

 

[annafullofgrace]

..

I can't stand anything about them, and thank goodness I never have their tv show inflicted on me.

No, I don't think they would even be in the news if they weren't constantly having babies. I mean, getting paid for having babies? On what planet does that concept exist?

they had 14 kids when the show started and were already self sufficient with no debt. How is it wrong for them to get paid for their show? Wholesome family television. Can you say that for all the other raunchy reality shows?

ISTM that now the parents can't have anymore, now the kids take over to keep the money flowing in. However, the one who just gave birth had a C-section so, ironically, she will be very, very limited on how many kids she can now have, because typically you can only have a couple of c-sections because the scar tissue builds up and the skin gets thinner, and they rarely allow a woman who had a c-section birth to have a vaginal birth because of the risk of the 'straining'.

thats not completely accurate. Their mother had multiple vaginal births after a c-section. Many, many women successfully have vbacs.

So, that's the end of their pay check at that point.

The whole thing is cynical marketing. Just m.o.

 

[annafullofgrace]

if I could turn back time, I never would've gone to college. My husband never would've gone back the second time. Both of his degrees in IT did not get him his career. Although he is in IT- It was his certifications and very hard work of starting from the bottom and working his way up.

I'm a huge supporter of being a self taught learner. Between the library and internet, you can learn anything you want.

Or people can just go to the library or learn some research skills and use the Internet and read on their own. I think it's a lousy deal to spend $60,000 just to 'open your mind' if your education doesn't lead to earning a living or something else that is beneficial. Smoking pot opens people's minds. It can make them sound like idiots, but their minds sure are opened. And a lot of pot smokers would spend less than that smoking over the course of 4 years. (I'm not in favor of smoking pot.)

Isn't high school supposed to educate people? Why are we sending youths to high school?[/QUOTE]

 

[Dave-W]

I shoulda just stuck to subjects like gluten-free fritatas and how to make clothes out of paper and stuff I actually know what i'm talking about.

Making clothes out of paper?

That (paper clothing) was a product of the 1960s. It still pops up every now and again since then.

 

[Liberasit]

I don't mind the shows.

I am astounded at how badly they eat, and that they use paper plates.

 

[Hetta]

There's nothing in the Bible that says that women can't or shouldn't be educated. That's an entirely man-made prohibition. It was a way to repress women and keep them home, reliant on their father and then their husband. Those days are gone. Or should be gone! Anyone still attempting to hold back a girl in that way is pathetic. The good thing is that the girl can, if she hasn't been too brainwashed, break away, turn her back on her parents and get her education anyway.

All this anti-education stuff makes me laugh, and then sigh. Really? Sure, go and apply for a job in a research lab because you're self taught from the internet. ROFLOL. Go see how many clients you can get because you've watched L.A. Law and read some John Grisham books.