How 'bout them Duggars?

[annafullofgrace]

It depends on your major, your drive, and your commitment. My eldest son graduated 2 years ago with his degree in criminal justice. He graduated with zero debt. We then put him into another six month program, and he was hired right out of that into law enforcement, into a very good paying job. He put in the time and proved himself committed.

that's wonderful.

Another of my kids is on the medical track and is part of the Honors program at his college. He will also graduate with zero debt. He volunteers constantly, fits in as much time shadowing as he can outside of his volunteering, and will without a doubt get into medical school and continue through the system until he graduates and is hired.

and that's great. Sounds like he's a hard worker. I'd expect the same from my children, if that's what they decided to do.

There isn't really a career without a degree.

Not entirely true. Depends on what field you are in. Certifications in the IT field are worth more than a degree.

Not one in which a person can continue to be promoted, to grow as a person and an employee, and to obtain the kind of pecuniary advancement as is possible with a degree.

again, not always true. My husband has two degrees. Neither got him in the door where he works. It was his certifications that got him in the door. And climbing the corporate ladder was him busting his rear.

It's naïve to imagine that a kid graduating with a high school degree can ever earn as much as a kid graduating with a college degree. There are statistics that quite clearly spell out what the difference is in income over a person's lifetime when they have a degree.

Im not sure why you are getting so bent out of shape. No one has said they are against getting a post high school education.

 

[Dave-W]

Im not sure why you are getting so bent out of shape. No one has said they are against getting a post high school education.

If the Duggars are truly followers of Gothard (knowingly or otherwise) as I suspect; then they are VERY opposed to post-hs education for women, and skeptical of it in men. "Career" is a dirty word in gothardism.

 

[annafullofgrace]

I'm not in debt. Don't you think some people can just afford to go to college? Because they went to college in the first place, got a good paying career, and saved money? That's how it works, you see. So, you can wish me and my kids into debt all you like, but we still won't be in debt. And, you know, millions of people who don't go to college get into debt all the time, with not much chance of getting out .. because they don't have a degree, and therefore can't make a large amount of money. That's where the irresponsibility lies.

I have nothing whatsoever against SAHM's. It's a worthwhile choice. What I am opposed to is parents who stand against educating their daughters, while allowing their sons to pursue their education to the max. That perspective that girls are not worth as much as boys is disgusting.

Again, no one has said any of that. These are your assumptions. And I never implied that you are in debt. I have not wished anything toward or against your family. Therefore you do not owe me any explanations. Or details.

You seem to be taking this personal, perhaps it's best to discontinue a dialogue with you.

 

[annafullofgrace]

And they have answered repeatedly that they are not.

If the Duggars are truly followers of Gothard (knowingly or otherwise) as I suspect; then they are VERY opposed to post-hs education for women, and skeptical of it in men. "Career" is a dirty word in gothardism.

 

[Hetta]

Again, no one has said any of that. These are your assumptions. And I never implied that you are in debt. I have not wished anything toward or against your family. Therefore you do not owe me any explanations. Or details.

You seem to be taking this personal, perhaps it's best to discontinue a dialogue with you.

I'm not interested in putting myself in debt even more. You don't have to put yourself in debt to learn. You can do that for free. If you are doing It for a specific purpose, sure, but that is an individual decision that everyone has to make. Personally , I think it's irresponsible to put yourself into that much debt if you do not need too

You quoted my post about obtaining my education with this comment. I'm simply proving that I'm not irresponsible.

 

[bluegreysky]

I went to college, and I did not get a good paying job. 3 years later, I got a job as a bank teller. Which leaves something to be desired and sometimes I get bored and post threads like these.

 

[Hetta]

I went to college, and I did not get a good paying job. 3 years later, I got a job as a bank teller. Which leaves something to be desired and sometimes I get bored and post threads like these.

You may not have chosen the right major. But you have a job, and you could always apply for promotion, maybe go to night school or online school to get another certification in another area? I mean, just complaining about it won't get you anywhere, kwim? When I was bored with my career, I took a new track, albeit late in life. You're very young and have a long life ahead in which you don't want to be bored every single day, so diverge!

 

[South Bound]

If the Duggars are truly followers of Gothard (knowingly or otherwise) as I suspect

Do you have any basis for this suspicion? If they were "truly followers", then wouldn't they admit it, rather than consistently denying it?

Ah, so if your kids quit college that's a good thing. Gotcha. I'll prefer mine to go the full course.

To each his own. They have great careers without the tens of thousands of dollars in debt, so yeah, that's a good thing.

.. because they don't have a degree, and therefore can't make a large amount of money.

Why do you assume a degree is necessary to make a large amount of money? That's where the irresponsibility lies.

What I am opposed to is parents who stand against educating their daughters, while allowing their sons to pursue their education to the max. That perspective that girls are not worth as much as boys is disgusting.

...which not one person in this thread has suggested.

Who said anything about quitting college?

I did. I was responding to her assertion that college is necessary by giving the examples of two of our sons who quit college to pursue their careers.

 

[Hetta]

Again, neither I nor any of my child have any college debt. Shrug.

 

[South Bound]

Again, neither I nor any of my child have any college debt. Shrug.

Nor do we. However, millions do, to the point it has entered the national conversation.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

but we are talking about the Duggars. And they are not part of that movement.

Someone here said something about "repeat something long enough and people will believe it..."

*sigh....

 

[annafullofgrace]

What's your point? That's doesn't change anything in this current conversation.

Someone here said something about "repeat something long enough and people will believe it..."

*sigh....

 

[Dave-W]

If the Duggars are truly followers of Gothard (knowingly or otherwise) as I suspect

Do you have any basis for this suspicion? If they were "truly followers", then wouldn't they admit it, rather than consistently denying it?

Not really. In hs I took organ lessons from an Assy of God organ player who had Gothard's teachings and accused me of violating them several times. I am not sure she had ever heard of him personally.

The congregation I was at in college fell into the same gothardesque extremes; and although some of the leaders were aware of Gothard, they denied following his teachings. (but they followed many of them anyway)

He has had so many thousands of christian leaders thru his "seminars" that his teachings have taken on a life of their own across many different denominations and non-denom groups. That was why I said "otherwise."

 

[South Bound]

Not really. In hs I took organ lessons from an Assy of God organ player who had Gothard's teachings and accused me of violating them several times. I am not sure she had ever heard of him personally.

The congregation I was at in college fell into the same gothardesque extremes; and although some of the leaders were aware of Gothard, they denied following his teachings. (but they followed many of them anyway)

He has had so many thousands of christian leaders thru his "seminars" that his teachings have taken on a life of their own across many different denominations and non-denom groups. That was why I said "otherwise."

So then, it's not that they're "true followers of Gothard". It's more that they were in a room with somebody once who has an indirect connection to Gothard.

You're stretching quite a bit to attack this family, aren't you?

 

[Dave-W]

I have been in the same room with plenty of gothardites. I do not ascribe to his teachings at all, not his version of kids submitting to parents, not his version of wives submitting to husbands and not his musical ideas.

I just recognize them when I see them. And I see them in the Duggars. Just not sure to what extent. I do not consider it an "attack."

 

[South Bound]

I have been in the same room with plenty of gothardites. I do not ascribe to his teachings at all, not his version of kids submitting to parents, not his version of wives submitting to husbands and not his musical ideas.

I just recognize them when I see them. And I see them in the Duggars. Just not sure to what extent. I do not consider it an "attack."

So then, like all the other claims that have been made about this family in this thread, there is no evidence for it.

 

[Hetta]

If a person doesn't agree with your opinion, it's bound to be an "attack". Surely you must know that.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

I don't understand the idea of someone saying "we don't ascribe to _____ ideology", then conducting a lifestyle that models that same ideology, the refusal of some to say "yes, they might be that way, even though they don't specifically say so".

If I say "I am not a vegetarian", but all I eat is vegetables...

The Duggars may not be part of the "quiverfull" movement, or be aligned with Gothard, but if one adopts the ways of a particular group's ideology...

It may not be fair to call them "Gothardites" if they aren't affiliated, but to recognize similar behavior is another matter.

 

[South Bound]

I don't understand the idea of someone saying "we don't ascribe to _____ ideology", then conducting a lifestyle that models that same ideology, the refusal of some to say "yes, they might be that way, even though they don't specifically say so".

If I say "I am not a vegetarian", but all I eat is vegetables...

The Duggars may not be part of the "quiverfull" movement, or be aligned with Gothard, but if one adopts the ways of a particular group's ideology...

It may not be fair to call them "Gothardites" if they aren't affiliated, but to recognize similar behavior is another matter.

You still haven't shown any evidence that the have "adopted the ways" of Gothard or quiverful.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

You still haven't shown any evidence that the have "adopted the ways" of Gothard or quiverful.

They have "19 Kids And Counting"