How 'bout them Duggars?

[annafullofgrace]

How are they not doing this? They schedule alone time ahead of time. So does my family, so what? Lots of large families have their older children help tend with the younger ones. I helped with my brothers. Don't see how that prevents them from training a child up.

Doesn't the Bible teach that the parents are supposed to teach and bring up children? How are the Duggars doing that if they have child after child and assigns each to a surrogate parent (an older sibling), and must schedule time ahead of time for interaction with their children?

 

[ananda]

How are they not doing this? They schedule alone time ahead of time. So does my family, so what? Lots of large families have their older children help tend with the younger ones. I helped with my brothers. Don't see how that prevents them from training a child up.

I think that if you need to "assign" a child to an older sibling, you might have too many children to take care of.

 

[South Bound]

Doesn't the Bible teach that the parents are supposed to teach and bring up children? How are the Duggars doing that if they have child after child and assigns each to a surrogate parent (an older sibling), and must schedule time ahead of time for interaction with their children?

We have seven children. It's never been a problem for us.

If the point is to raise children to be independent, then shouldn't the children need less attention as they get older?

And if the role is to prepare the children for adulthood, then wouldn't asking older children to help with the younger children help prepare the older children for parenthood?

Many people, including me had older siblings that watched after us. Why is that such an objectionable thing?

I think that if you need to "assign" a child to an older sibling, you might have too many children to take care of.

Why?

Nothing wrong with older children helping with younger children, but IMO it is a different case if a couple has to get to the specific point of officially "assigning" a child.

Yeah, you've said that a couple of times now. What you haven't said is why.

 

[ananda]

Why?

Nothing wrong with older children helping with younger children, but IMO it is a different case if a couple has to get to the specific point of officially "assigning" a child.

 

[annafullofgrace]

It's called the buddy system and I have a close friend with 6 children who do this. It's not signing off as a parent.

I think that if you need to "assign" a child to an older sibling, you might have too many children to take care of.

 

[Inkachu]

I dunno. The one couple having 19 or 20 kids doesn't really bother me so much as the fact that the adult ones were married off young and immediatley started procreating ASAP. To me, from the outside, between their extremely conservative belief system and their procreation rate they look like a human puppy mill....

Maybe If I actually met them that would be different, somehow I just dont think a woman who grows up in a crowded home until 19, never gets to live on her own, and gets married to a man her dad picked out and then 2 months later gets pregnant can really truly be happy or free to know her identity... in God or in herself.
They just don't know any different because that's all they know.
If they were exposed to other people and communities and Christians they would realize alot of us had all of the above- the few years on their own out of the parents' home, the marriage to someone God chose but we also chose, the freedom to be married and enjoy him but not have kids right away....

Here's a clue: The kids CHOOSE their lives once they become adults. No one is forcing them to marry young and have lots of children. That's the lifestyle they're used to, it works for their family, they value marriage, family, and children, and they WANT to get married and have children. I've watched the show many, many times, and they are far from perfect, but they're always loving, caring, connected, and happy. I honestly think most people just love to gossip and slander anyone who's the least bit different, even when that person is happy, functional, productive, intelligent, and knows exactly what they're doing and why. These are not mindless lemmings within a cult who obey out of fear or coercion. And frankly, it irks me that fellow Christians get all bent out of shape to see people being GOOD people, just because they go about it in a way that you wouldn't. My gosh. You want to get irritated about something, get irritated about something sinful, at least.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

So, they're all living in some kind of fake, dysfunctional world? They're all self-supporting, happy, productive citizens. I'm failing to see how "ill-equipped" they are.

Self-supporting?
The oldest is some figurehead at the FRC...
The second oldest got his pilot's license and flies for daddy's company. Daddy also "gave" him the towing company.
Oldest daughter is 25, no education.
Next one married, just had first baby, is a "student midwife". did not go through an accredited CNM program.
Next one married a child (hubby is 19) who works for daddy.

Please go research IBLP...the Duggars have endorsed this...same as the other mega-family, the Bates. The Duggar website has been scrubbed, however...here they are speaking at an IBLP "family conference".
Big Sandy - Family Conferences

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Took the high road on this thread yesterday. Good thing...

 

[bluegreysky]

There is a middle ground between really rigid conservative ways like the parents choosing the spouse and never using birth control... and really liberal ways like sleeping around and getting abortions.

My husband and I don't use birth control in the sense that we take a pill or a patch... I am allergic to most but we do exercise caution so that a baby doesn't happen before we are ready. we both have financial goals and he's in school and I'm not emotionally ready and it's not wise or fair to the child to bring one into the world right now.

 

[South Bound]

Self-supporting?
The oldest is some figurehead at the FRC...

How do you know he's just a figurehead?

The second oldest got his pilot's license and flies for daddy's company.

So being a pilot and owning a towing company is not being self supporting?

Oldest daughter is 25, no education.

Evidence?

Next one married, just had first baby, is a "student midwife". did not go through an accredited CNM program.

And...?

Next one married a child (hubby is 19) who works for daddy.

Again, you admit he works. How is that not self-supporting?

You seem to have a lot of animosity toward this family. Do you know what the Bible says about slander and gossip?

There is a middle ground between really rigid conservative ways like the parents choosing the spouse

Who is suggesting that parents should choose the spouse?

we do exercise caution so that a baby doesn't happen before we are ready. we both have financial goals and he's in school and I'm not emotionally ready and it's not wise or fair to the child to bring one into the world right now.

Nobody is ready to have children. If you're waiting until you're ready, then you'll always find some excuse.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

How do you know he's just a figurehead?



So being a pilot and owning a towing company is not being self supporting?



Evidence?



And...?



Again, you admit he works. How is that not self-supporting?

You seem to have a lot of animosity toward this family. Do you know what the Bible says about slander and gossip?



Who is suggesting that parents should choose the spouse?



Nobody is ready to have children. If you're waiting until you're ready, then you'll always find some excuse.

None of it is "gossip"...the information is available. Did you check out their "family conference" website. I have the books from the seminars they attended...it's some seriously jacked up stuff.

Daddy owns the towing company...if son displeases daddy, son is out of a job.

oldest daughter has NO post-secondary education.

the rest are not 'self supporting' with the exception of the one son in law who works for walmart...but daddy gave them the house...so they're beholden to daddy.

Please go find out about IBLP. It is some seriously scary stuff. SERIOUSLY scary. I did my homework when my brother started getting involved. Thank God he saw the light and walked away before he got in too deep. On the outside the Duggars look like this nice, very conservative Christian family. However, behind the curtain it is some seriously messed up stuff.

 

[South Bound]

Oh, good. I was afraid you were going to ignore this post, like you did my last one to you.

None of it is "gossip"...the information is available.

OK. I'll wait here while you post it.

Daddy owns the towing company...if son displeases daddy, son is out of a job.

First of all, you said his father gave him the towing company. Now, you're saying he did? Which is it?

Even if his father does own the company, how does the fact that he works for his father's company make him not self supporting?

I worked for my family's businesses when I was younger. I was self-supporting.

oldest daughter has NO post-secondary education.

First of all, again, you're changing your tune. You said she had no education. Now, you're saying she didn't go to college.

the rest are not 'self supporting' with the exception of the one son in law who works for walmart...but daddy gave them the house...so they're beholden to daddy.

How do you know they're not self-supporting?

Please go find out about IBLP. It is some seriously scary stuff. SERIOUSLY scary. I did my homework when my brother started getting involved. Thank God he saw the light and walked away before he got in too deep. On the outside the Duggars look like this nice, very conservative Christian family. However, behind the curtain it is some seriously messed up stuff.

So far, all you've done is engage in slander and gossip without even a lick of evidence. You've made claims, but then contradicted your own claims inyour next post. I see no reason to believe you on this.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

You seem to have a lot of animosity toward this family. Do you know what the Bible says about slander and gossip?

And there are also verses about strife and divisions in the BoC. There's no reason the thread needs to get nasty.

Who is suggesting that parents should choose the spouse?

I think there's a clear division between saying that someone does or should choose a spouse and there being clear influence and say-so in the decision. I don't watch the Duggar's much, but even from what I've seen - what other reason would a (I'm guessing) 10-year-old have to chaperone a date other than to report on it? A clearly close-knit family like this clearly would have a say-so in a decision like courtship and marriage. This wouldn't be left to chance.

 

[South Bound]

And there are also verses about strife and divisions in the BoC. There's no reason the thread needs to get nasty.

I agree. Other than her, everybody has been pretty friendly.

what other reason would a (I'm guessing) 10-year-old have to chaperone a date other than to report on it?

When has a ten year old chaperoned?

You realize that going on dates without a chaperone is a relatively recent occurrence, right?

They probably have chaperones for their children for the same reason we have chaperones for ours.

A clearly close-knit family like this clearly would have a say-so in a decision like courtship and marriage. This wouldn't be left to chance.

I should hope parents would have an influence. But you still haven't explained why that's a bad thing.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

I agree. Other than her, everybody has been pretty friendly.

When has a ten year old chaperoned?

My bad. James Duggar was barely 13 when he chaperoned Derrick and Jill on a birthday pick-nick.

You realize that going on dates without a chaperone is a relatively recent occurrence, right?

So it's believed. I understand the desire for a revival of "traditional" patriarchal family systems, and this is a part of that, but there have been sub-sets of Christians that have practiced this. It's just come out of the fringes a bit more.

They probably have chaperones for their children for the same reason we have chaperones for ours.
I should hope parents would have an influence. But you still haven't explained why that's a bad thing.

Nothing is good or bad in and of itself. If a person's preference is to live a certain way, let them live it. I see no argument against the Duggar's lifestyle, just as I see nothing against Amish or traditional Mennonite. I just wonder about someone saying they don't ascribe to the "quiverfull" mentality, then commence to live exactly that way.

 

[kristina411]

I have two children. A 7 year old and a 1 year old. After seeing the show, seeing other families in my area, and seeing the lonliness of my kids... I wish I had more and closer together. I want 19 kids and counting myself. I want my kids to have a strong passion for Christ. I want my kids to respect and trust me so much that they trust my husband to only say yes to a deserving man that asks to marry them. I want my kids to refrain from dating around. I dont know how honest this family actually is but I think they do a decent job of showing what it means to be a large, strong, God loving family. Anything can happen behind closed doors but that's not my business.

 

[bluegreysky]

well like I said, the couple having 19 kids isn't what bothers me. I just don't like the arrangements for the oldest kids

 

[South Bound]

well like I said, the couple having 19 kids isn't what bothers me. I just don't like the arrangements for the oldest kids

Several of us have pointed out to you that there are no "arrangements". You've yet to show one lick of evidence that there are.

 

[LinkH]

I've seen several episodes, maybe 5 or so. From what I see, I like the Duggars. I think it's great that a secular station shows the lives of a family of Christians who can be a good witness to the world. They do seem to be very skilled parents. I think Mr. Duggar was doing well in real estate before the TV show. He ran for office on he state and national level, and through losing a congressional or senate race, got some press that led to the show.

I don't think every Christian couple is obligated to make as many babies as they can. Three is multiplying. I do think these folks are right to see children as a blessing from the Lord as opposed to some kind of negative burden. But if they want to churn out as many babies as they can and raise them in the knowledge and fear of the Lord to help influence the world, with the Gospel, good for them. IMO, they are the most influential people in the whole patriarchy/quiverfull type movement and they seem to be doing a responsible job with it.

If the kids want to marry off at 19, I'm perfectly fine with that. If I had a child at the right age to marry one of their kids, I might be pleased about them intermarrying with that family. Individuals may vary, but from what I've seen of the show (which is edited, etc.) it sure seems like they've raised their kids with good values. The girls are probably a lot more ready to be mothers at 19 than your average college grad is at 29, IMO.

They do make the kids work to help out with the little kids, bake bread, cook, clean, etc. I think that is a good thing. A lot of Americans think kids are supposed to 'enjoy their childhood' and that is fine to an extent, but kids who were made to work, be disciplined, and have responsibility, instead of playing video games all the time or just doing sports after school probably end up with a better work ethic that actually helps them in life. I'm talking about chimney sweeps working 80 hour weeks or kids with rikets in the coal mine. There needs to be a good balance, and a lot of families err on the side of entertainment and fun for the kids Fun is good, but raising kids should be about preparing them for the rest of their lives, not just about having fun in the moment.

 

[bluegreysky]

I don't know maybe I'm just tired of everyone making a big deal out of the family and posting their every move on Facebook.

I've had a rough week.