How Are You Save without Works and Just Faith?

[Born Again2004]

The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. In James 2: (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead. (v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works. (v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God. (v.24) Ye see then how that by works a man is Justified, and not by faith only. Do you see that also? Do you understand that you need works to go along with that faith; if you love and fear God then you should have no problem obeying his commandments. (v.25) Likewise also was not Ra’-hab the harlot justified by works, when she received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? Ra’-hab showed her faith in God and her fear of God by doing good works. (v.26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Take it or leave it, but this is the true uncut word of God. Just as the body is dead when you take away the spirit (breath) so faith is dead if you have no works.

Again: John 15:5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
The branches...the Vine....the fruit comes from the Vine; all the genetic code comes from the vine...the branch merely displays the fruit....It is ALL of him and none of us!

 

[bugkiller]

You mean the good works the Bible talks about? Lets go to James 2:[15] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[16] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

So none of these works are works of the law, correct?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Do mean give you an example of the different laws and the passage(s) you connect to them? You can find those different laws in the first five books of Moses, Genesis to Deuteronomy.

That's exactly what I thought you meant.

Jer 31:31-33 is the promise of a new covenant. Jesus says this new covenant (Testament) is current. Heb 8:6 says this new covenant is based on better promises opposed to law. Not to mention the new covenant is not like the one they broke issued at Sinai.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

• You don't need works, not of your own...you need Christ's work through you!
• Not that you won't have fruits...you will bare his fruit through you....Without him you can do nothing but with him in you, you will bare much fruit....fruit of the vine!
• God will judge by one single solitary aspect...is Christ in you or not!

Amen!!!

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Lets go into (James 2:14-18, 20-26) (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem. (v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead. (v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works. (v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God. (v.24) Ye see then how that by works a man is Justified, and not by faith only. Do you see that also? Do you understand that you need works to go along with that faith; if you love and fear God then you should have no problem obeying his commandments. (v.25) Likewise also was not Ra’-hab the harlot justified by works, when she received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? Ra’-hab showed her faith in God and her fear of God by doing good works. (v.26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Take it or leave it, but this is the true uncut word of God. Just as the body is dead when you take away the spirit (breath) so faith is dead if you have no works.

So evidently this faith bearing good works has nothing to do with the law.

bugkiller

 

[Bro.T]

Again: John 15:5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
The branches...the Vine....the fruit comes from the Vine; all the genetic code comes from the vine...the branch merely displays the fruit....It is ALL of him and none of us!

I understand that, that verse goes without saying. Yes, its all about God, but we are not robots. We have choices and we have instruction, on how the word of God works. You ignore all of what I post that James wrote, as if James and John are against each other. All of the aposltes and the prophets are all on the same page.

 

[Bro.T]

So evidently this faith bearing good works has nothing to do with the law.

bugkiller

The Royal law goes with saying. Its written in James 2: [8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

 

[Bro.T]

That's exactly what I thought you meant.

Jer 31:31-33 is the promise of a new covenant. Jesus says this new covenant (Testament) is current. Heb 8:6 says this new covenant is based on better promises opposed to law. Not to mention the new covenant is not like the one they broke issued at Sinai.

bugkiller

I agree, but you still have to understand what God took off the table and what still remains on the table.

 

[Bro.T]

So none of these works are works of the law, correct?

bugkiller

Which law are you talking about?

 

[Born Again2004]

Yes, its all about God, but we are not robots.

No, we are not robots but, with Jesus in us, we do the work of the vine freely! Without Jesus in me, I can do nothing on my own that has any bearing on my future!

You ignore all of what I post that James wrote

No, I do not ignore what James wrote, I ignore how some interpret it. I can't boast in my own works but boast in the works of the Lord through me. It is not me anymore, it is all him through me!

 

[bugkiller]

The Royal law goes with saying. Its written in James 2: [8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

James is quoting and not commanding or saying the works of the law are required to prove faith.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I agree, but you still have to understand what God took off the table and what still remains on the table.

What remains on the table? In this thread you will find it all the law or none of the law. In fact you quoted James on the issue.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Which law are you talking about?

What do you mean which law am I talking about?

bugkiller

 

[Travis93]

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

He doesn't say that for a while yet... (only He and the Father knows how long).

Yet there is the other thing, after the resurrection -
Jesus NEVER appeared to anyone who wasn't immersed in Him, no one. (in Scripture).
And everyone
immersed in Him , followed Him even unto death. They did whatever He told them to do.
They never even thought of disobeying Him, they were so grateful for the amazing sheer gift of salvation and experiential knowledge living in union with Jesus - such great JOY, and PEACE , and RiGHTEOUSNESS, along with the incredible gift of eternal life !

And they ALL* knew and were familiar with Torah - both Jews and gentiles who God called righteous in Jesus by faith.....
This didn't change until many years later, after the wolves tore the flock to pieces as Paul had warned.

*ALL.... well, there were "many anti-christs among them" .... already then... deceivers in their midst... pretenders, godless, sons of disobedience and lawless....

 

[Bro.T]

No, we are not robots but, with Jesus in us, we do the work of the vine freely! Without Jesus in me, I can do nothing on my own that has any bearing on my future!

No, I do not ignore what James wrote, I ignore how some interpret it. I can't boast in my own works but boast in the works of the Lord through me. It is not me anymore, it is all him through me!

Actually, James is one of those apostles that need no interpreting, James is pretty much cut and dry.

 

[Bro.T]

What do you mean which law am I talking about?

bugkiller

Paul talks about three laws in the new Testament, and of course all the others laws are in the Old Testament.

 

[Bro.T]

What remains on the table? In this thread you will find it all the law or none of the law. In fact you quoted James on the issue.

bugkiller

Ok

 

[Bro.T]

Paul said in (2Tim. 4:1) I CHARGE thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom. And by what means will he use to judge you? You will be judged according to your works, pertaining to the commandments.

Jesus said in (John 17:3-4) (v.3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (v.4) I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Yes Jesus did much work. He is the captain of our salvation and the captain is leading by his example, by his works.

Paul said in (Phil. 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Now if you need not work, then why is Paul telling you to “WORK” out your own salvation, and pay close attention because he also says with “fear and trembling”.

 

[bugkiller]

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Such as....

bugkiller