How are we to explain these "miracles?"

[theophilus777]

What spiritual realm, Heiss?

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That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that born of Spirit is spirit.

Unless one is born again through the Spirit of God they cannot SEE the Kingdom of God in our midst.

When you say what Spiritual realm you bear witness of what is born of flesh, and the Spiritual you cannot apprehend firsthand.

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TLK, this is exactly what makes you so sure a poverty stricken man would refuse a drink of water, relief from dysentary, food now and the ability to grow his own.

 

[TLK Valentine]

TLK, this is exactly what makes you so sure a poverty stricken man would refuse a drink of water, relief from dysentary, food now and the ability to grow his own.

You're not even trying to make a connection, are you?

 

[TLK Valentine]

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That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that born of Spirit is spirit.

Unless one is born again through the Spirit of God they cannot SEE the Kingdom of God in our midst.

When you say what Spiritual realm you bear witness of what is born of flesh, and the Spiritual you cannot apprehend firsthand.

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Now, name one person who claims to be born again in the spirit whom I should take at their word.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Sorry Sarah, this is just prejudice on your part. You clearly don't even know what it is. You really wouldn't confuse something a man was buried in with an artifact of His Mother's, knowing He was ripped open from head to toe and His burial cloth would've been matted to his no longer existent skin and coagulated into one big scab.

This wouldn't be a miracle anyway, so your concept of "fake miracle" can't apply.

How about them? You really think you have evidence of this? I think what you have is hearsay.

What is that supposed to mean?

I don't think so, no. Who pays someone to do this? Not for Christians, which is your claim.

Since when are Christians the only ones I claim to fake miracles? Everyone who thinks they can get away with it and has the desire to to it fakes miracles, heck, it wouldn't even shock me if there were atheists out there claiming healing powers they got from aliens or some other stupid thing. Hindus fake miracles, Buddhists fake miracles, people of all nationalities, faiths, etc. fake miracles, little nine year old Sally with a smart phone can fake a miracle using photoshop. Faking a miracle is easy, and it is naive to think there aren't tons of fakes out there.

I view anything people claim to be a miracle of the nature of it defying nature which is shown not to be is a fake miracle. Your concept of miracle and mine might be different, I couldn't possibly know.

Why pay someone to investigate miracles? Why, to see if any are valid, it would be huge if an actual miracle happened and was verified. However, fake miracles can cause a lot of damage if allowed to persist and gain fame only to be disproven later, so better to get rid of them quickly.

 

[stevevw]

Not saying that fundamentalism is always stupid. But fundamentalism can be parodied, and that parody can be misunderstood as sincere, and thusly generate a poe.

It applies to anything, really. Even atheism.

This has got me thinking now. Jesus says in the bible that we need to become like little children when it come to a faith in God. So children dont know everything thats going on yet will trust their parents with their whole heart to feel safe. They will hold their parents hand when crossing the road putting their life in the hands of their mums. So when it come to people who are mentally disabled they dont know what all the circumstances of what is going on either. Yet you often hear a innocent and whole hearted belief from them when they speak of God. If it was up to understanding everything and being able to discern things then some would find it impossible. Luckily a belief in God isn't dependent on this.

 

[Heissonear]

Now, name one person who claims to be born again in the spirit whom I should take at their word.

Look around, God is not a respecter of persons. You do not need to look at the lofty in Christianity. Particularly THIS IS THE DAY which God is leveling EVERYTHING; debasing those who have promoted themselves and raising up the lowly, in Christianity, those who have called upon Him.

There is a reason to gain maturity in the Spiritual, to be able to walk and not stumble or fall. Some treat Spiritual things and maturity as something they can do without, only to eventually find out ignorance is not blessed, and they fall prey to stumbling blocks.

You have seen corruption in religions, including Christianity, but what is clearly obvious is you have only seen the church in the world, the church acting like the world, the corrupt Christian church. Spiritual maturity again is NEEDED to walk through such less you stumble. Some only know stumbling: they become a this or that, rather than truly continuing to follow Him.

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[Heissonear]

This has got me thinking now. Jesus says in the bible that we need to become like little children when it come to a faith in God. So children dont know everything thats going on yet will trust their parents with their whole heart to feel safe. They will hold their parents hand when crossing the road putting their life in the hands of their mums. So when it come to people who are mentally disabled they dont know what all the circumstances of what is going on either. Yet you often hear a innocent and whole hearted belief from them when they speak of God. If it was up to understanding everything and being able to discern things then some would find it impossible. Luckily a belief in God isn't dependent on this.

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Blessed are those who put their trust in the Lord.

Trust and dependence in Him were two major things lost in the Garden that God is trying to reestablish.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Look around, God is not a respecter of persons.

Do you even know/care what that means?

You do not need to look at the lofty in Christianity.

Trust me, I don't.

Particularly THIS IS THE DAY which God is leveling EVERYTHING; debasing those who have promoted themselves and raising up the lowly, in Christianity, those who have called upon Him.

And I should believe you because...?

There is a reason to gain maturity in the Spiritual, to be able to walk and not stumble or fall. Some treat Spiritual things and maturity as something they can do without, only to eventually find out ignorance is not blessed, and they fall prey to stumbling blocks.

Again, I should believe you because...?

You have seen corruption in religions, including Christianity, but what is clearly obvious is you have only seen the church in the world, the church acting like the world, the corrupt Christian church. Spiritual maturity again is NEEDED to walk through such less you stumble. Some only know stumbling: they become a this or that, rather than truly continuing to follow Him.

And yet your stumbling is very entertaining to watch.

 

[KWCrazy]

I view anything people claim to be a miracle of the nature of it defying nature which is shown not to be is a fake miracle.

I would tend to agree with that. Something which defies natural law is a big deal if it happens, but is merely deception if it does not. That said, I believe our understanding of nature is flawed in that it doesn't include the supernatural; which is as real as the natural world. Seeing an angel or a demon doesn't violate natural law, only your understanding of natural law. Floating an ax head on water violates natural law because it overrides the law of gravity as it relates to the density of an object.

Healing the sick violates probability but not specifically natural law because the body can heal itself. Causing a limb to physically lengthen instantly would be a true miracle. Validating it, however, would require before and after measurements. Invalidating it would require the same. Did it happen? That's where faith comes in. Certainly, God can heal through prayer. It happens all the time. It's as foolish to say that something you cannot disprove didn't happen as it is to say that something you didn't witness and have no knowledge of did happen. You are certainly entitled to your doubts.

Proving the existence of the supernatural does not fit the requirement that we come to the Lord through faith, so it's unlikely that you will ever have hard physical proof of a miracle. Even if tens of thousands of people see an event, it still requires an element of faith to believe in it without hard physical evidence. This is the reality of our world. Believe as you will, disbelieve as you will. Reject the Lord if you so desire. All actions have consequence. As for me, I KNOW the Lord is real.

 

[Heissonear]

People will always try to explain miracles away. Such as those that see heaven or hell when they die (and then come back to life). Just like science tries to disprove anything in the bible and even God. Despite lots of evidence supporting things they don't truly care about that. And of course as I say this it leads to "Give me some evidence!", just so they can shoot it down anyways with "ideas" on why its wrong. Hence why I stopped providing evidence.

That aside. There was a man with end stage cancer (don't remember what kind it was) locally. His doctor told him he had weeks to live after the treatments weren't doing anything. One night his church came in and prayed over him. Asking for a miracle. The next morning he said he felt great. The doctors gave him some tests just to show him nothing had changed. But to their surprise his cancer was totally gone. 100%. The doctors who don't believe in God say it was a miracle.

EXplain that?

Miracles happen.

The Supernatural exists.

Many on this Forum do not look very hard, nor openly.

If you want documentation on Miracles that happened by the thousands just research carefully what the Supernatural did through William Branham between 1948 to 1952.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Miracles happen.

The Supernatural exists.

Many on this Forum do not look very hard, nor openly.

If you want documentation on Miracles that happened by the thousands just research carefully what the Supernatural did through William Branham between 1948 to 1952.

My only concern in this particular thread is the miracle you claimed to have seen.

 

[TLK Valentine]

My only concern in this particular thread is the miracle you claimed to have seen.

Performed, actually.

 

[Heissonear]

These have never been faced except through doubt and denial!!!

1. How did a small severely deformed arm lengthen over twice its size and become normal over the course of time of about eight seconds?

2. What HAD TO occur, biologically and physically to the arm?

3. Were cells and other biological materials Created?

 

[[serious]]

These have never been faced except through doubt and denial!!!

1. How did a small severely deformed arm lengthen over twice its size and become normal over the course of time of about eight seconds?

2. What HAD TO occur, biologically and physically to the arm?

3. Were cells and other biological materials Created?

I'll answer yours if you'll answer mine.

1. It didn't. The limb appeared shorter because it was being held closer to the body and obscured by clothing
2. Light traction was placed on the arm encouraging the child to reach it out
3. No, because it was a change in position, not size.

Your turn:

Was the child wearing a lose shirt or bulky clothes? Was the entire arm and shoulder joint visible?

Was the faith healer holding the arm when it lengthened?

Did the mother tell you explicitly that the child's arm was shorter than the other? not deformed in an unspecified way, but actually saying "this arm is half the length of the other"?

 

[TLK Valentine]

These have never been faced except through doubt and denial!!!

1. How did a small severely deformed arm lengthen over twice its size and become normal over the course of time of about eight seconds?

2. What HAD TO occur, biologically and physically to the arm?

3. Were cells and other biological materials Created?

Sleight of hand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Greatcloud]

Every day is a miracle. IMHO

 

[[serious]]

Sleight of hand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I actually think he honestly believes it himself. Otherwise, he'd lie in response to my questions rather than just ignoring them. No doubt, he say what appeared to be a shorter arm, saw it "grow" and called it a miracle before actually checking anything out. Facing up to that kind of error is hard for any of us. Give him some time.

 

[DogmaHunter]

If you want documentation on Miracles that happened by the thousands just research carefully what the Supernatural did through William Branham between 1948 to 1952.

You mean the con-man that claimed to have angels speak to him and who said that it is blasphemous to speak about the father, the son and the holy spirit? He was against the trinity, you know.

But I'm sure you ignored that part. You just picked him because he kickstarted the whole faith-healing movement. That's the kind of opportunistic person you are... pick a few things that you feel support the point you are making at that particular time, and just ignore everything that contradicts your beliefs.

It's so pathetic.

 

[Heissonear]

I'll answer yours if you'll answer mine.

1. It didn't. The limb appeared shorter because it was being held closer to the body and obscured by clothing
2. Light traction was placed on the arm encouraging the child to reach it out
3. No, because it was a change in position, not size.

Your turn:

Answers
1. The child did not have a shirt on, only a diaper.

2. I took the child from the mother, after requesting if I could hold the child.

3. I held the little arm. Then cupped it in my hand.

Enough from you doubters? No, because doubt has your heart. He is not going anywhere until you repent and request Grace from Him.

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[Heissonear]

Sleight of hand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Still like to whitewash the truth with error! Paint it your color.

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