How are we to explain these "miracles?"

[PsychoSarah]

I think these guys don't know, and just want to blame it on the Bible.

Don't you?

Hold on while I try to grasp the concept of someone developing an atheist mindset only by reading the bible alone... Ugh, can't do it, doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

 

[bhsmte]

It isn't a psychological need to be atheist it is a lack of a psychological need for worship.

I do think certain psychological needs can play into going from Christianity to atheism and they usually revolve around; seeking verifiable truths, maybe a lack of need of outside comfort, etc.

For believers, I believe it is a psychological need for comfort. And, I am not saying this need Christians or believers has is unhealthy, as it could be very healthy for them and make them a better person. Where I think it can become unhealthy, is when believers look down on others, because they do not share their believe, they use their religion as a weapon, they are forced to refute reality, to hold onto their belief, etc..

 

[AV1611VET]

Good question.

For me specifically, after thoroughly examining the bible and then looking at the realities of the world we live in, I could not reconcile the story as believable. So you could say, I got to a psychological point, of needing to be honest with myself and I could not go on, thinking I believed in something and I was only fooling myself.

So, it was a need to acquire knowledge of a specific source and not reject reality.

What's my problem then? or my pastor's? or my neighbors? or our country's? or Israel's? or India's? or Egypt's? or Arabia's? or Saudi Arabia's? or ...?

 

[AV1611VET]

Very little, actually. Reading it might have reaffirmed that view, but I was atheist before I read it. Evolution isn't the reason either, just going to put that out there before it is brought up.

Okie-doke.

Thank you for being honest.

 

[bhsmte]

What's my problem then? or my pastor's? or my neighbors? or our country's? or Israel's? or India's? or Egypt's? or Arabia's? or Saudi Arabia's? or ...?

Who said it was a problem, it is just different needs. It can be a problem, if believers judge others who disagree with them, they are forced to refute reality for their belief or they use their religion as a weapon.

Upbringing also has something to do with it, but not everything, as young people are very moldable when exposed to certain beliefs.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Okie-doke.

Thank you for being honest.

You need not thank me for behaving as I should. Besides, I gain nothing from lying online. Or in general really.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hold on while I try to grasp the concept of someone developing an atheist mindset only by reading the bible alone... Ugh, can't do it, doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

And let's not lose sight of SI's point.

Here it is again:

The Bible is precisely what turned many Christians into atheists in the first place.

At one point, he and "they" were Christians.

You know:

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

You sound like you are not one of the "they" that SI was talking about.

 

[bhsmte]

And let's not lose sight of SI's point.

Here it is again:

At one point, he and "they" were Christians.

You know:

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

You sound like you are not one of the "they" that SI was talking about.

Everyone is different AV.

For me, the bible helped push me over the edge, but if one only reads the bible and has little knowledge of other sources of knowledge, then reading the bible alone will not have the same effect as someone who has other knowledge and then compares that to the bible.

 

[PsychoSarah]

And let's not lose sight of SI's point.

Here it is again:

At one point, he and "they" were Christians.

You know:

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

You sound like you are not one of the "they" that SI was talking about.

Just because I don't think it is logical doesn't mean that people don't become atheist that way, people do lots of stuff I don't get, but they do it nonetheless. This is where my underdeveloped theory of mind makes my life harder.

 

[AV1611VET]

Who said it was a problem, it is just different needs. It can be a problem, if believers judge others who disagree with them, they are forced to refute reality for their belief or they use their religion as a weapon.

Upbringing also has something to do with it, but not everything, as young people are very moldable when exposed to certain beliefs.

What happened to the word "Bible" in all of this?

I thought SI was very explicit in stating that it was a matter of cause-and-effect.

He put the blame right square where he thinks it belongs.

You guys are starting to wax vague for some reason?

 

[bhsmte]

What happened to the word "Bible" in all of this?

I thought SI was very explicit in stating that it was a matter of cause-and-effect.

He put the blame right square where he thinks it belongs.

You guys are starting to wax vague for some reason?

Read my other posts for clarification.

 

[PsychoSarah]

What happened to the word "Bible" in all of this?

I thought SI was very explicit in stating that it was a matter of cause-and-effect.

He put the blame right square where he thinks it belongs.

You guys are starting to wax vague for some reason?

Technically, what difference would it make if it was extended to other religious texts? The reasons people are atheist or become atheist are different from person to person, so there will be a lot of nonspecific stuff to cover.

 

[AV1611VET]

Everyone is different AV.

For me, the bible helped push me over the edge, but if one only reads the bible and has little knowledge of other sources of knowledge, then reading the bible alone will not have the same effect as someone who has other knowledge and then compares that to the bible.

Would I be incorrect to assume that SI and others came to accept being considered a Christian without having read the Bible, or parts of It read to them?

If, as the Bible says, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God; then how is it that the same word of God that generated that faith in the first place ... destroyed it?

I have a feeling that some people are a little ... well ... premature in their acceptance of the faith.

In other words, they may have never been truly saved in the first place.

But it's not my call to judge that.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Would I be incorrect to assume that SI and others came to accept being considered a Christian without having read the Bible, or parts of It read to them?

If, as the Bible says, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God; then how is it that the same word of God that generated that faith in the first place ... destroyed it?

I have a feeling that some people are a little ... well ... premature in their acceptance of the faith.

In other words, they may have never been truly saved in the first place.

But it's not my call to judge that.

Well, I don't think a deity, even if one or many exists, had any input on the bible or other religious texts so... not an issue to me. This is why I don't view mistakes or alterations regarding such texts to be damaging to the deity directly.

However, were the bible to say that red and blue look the same, and observe pretty obviously that they don't, and you had faith in the deity associated with that text prior to reading that passage, it could really strike a blow at your belief, don't you think?

 

[AV1611VET]

Read my other posts for clarification.

SI laid the blame squarely on something that has mass.

Can you do the same?

 

[AV1611VET]

Technically, what difference would it make if it was extended to other religious texts? The reasons people are atheist or become atheist are different from person to person, so there will be a lot of nonspecific stuff to cover.

Okay ... I understand.

I just find it ... well ... hard to accept that a person can once be a Christian, read the Bible, then refuse to call himself a Christian anymore.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen.

After all, I refuse to be called a Homo sapiens.

 

[quatona]

In other words, they may have never been truly saved in the first place.

Of course they weren´t.

 

[bhsmte]

Would I be incorrect to assume that SI and others came to accept being considered a Christian without having read the Bible, or parts of It read to them?

If, as the Bible says, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God; then how is it that the same word of God that generated that faith in the first place ... destroyed it?

I have a feeling that some people are a little ... well ... premature in their acceptance of the faith.

In other words, they may have never been truly saved in the first place.

But it's not my call to judge that.

I can't speak for others, only me.

I had read the bible before, but I hadn't researched the book from a historical standpoint, I just believed it. When I researched the book, I acquired knowledge about the book, that I had not had before and the book became much less credible to me.

So when you rely on; the bible says this and the bible says that, it doesn't have the meaning to me, that it does for you, because I seriously question the credibility of the book, based on the knowledge I acquired and looking at reality.

 

[bhsmte]

Okay ... I understand.

I just find it ... well ... hard to accept that a person can once be a Christian, read the Bible, then refuse to call himself a Christian anymore.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen.

After all, I refuse to be called a Homo sapiens.

People leaving Christianity is happening in virtually every advanced nation AV.

 

[AV1611VET]

I can't speak for others, only me.

I had read the bible before, but I hadn't researched the book from a historical standpoint, I just believed it. When I researched the book, I acquired knowledge about the book, that I had not had before and the book became much less credible to me.

So when you rely on; the bible says this and the bible says that, it doesn't have the meaning to me, that it does for you, because I seriously question the credibility of the book, based on the knowledge I acquired and looking at reality.

So, in other words, you are saying you had faith at one time, but not to the point where you defined it as:

"Believing something, even if science says otherwise."

Is that correct?