How a literal 7 day creation can work with evolution claims without changing a word of either

[drich0150]

I disagree.. Evolution could have happened, and most atheists would believe so, without an intelligent designer.

I have worked answering atheist question on line and in person since 2005. I understand that atheist will find no value here nor will be compelled by this theory. Which is why it is not for them. However those who grew up in christian families and have been sent to schooled and condition to believe everything with the term "science' tagged on it like the gospel truth, have issue with reconciling the science with faith. as a result 70 to 80% of christians children going off to college loose their faith by the time they graduate. The subject of organs is where most begin to doubt. This theory allows a belief in a literal 7 day creation, and all of evolution for the BELIEVER.

That is it's purpose. To explain how we got here without accepting that God exists.
Trying to marry Evolution with God... is like mixing oil and water. IMO

Mixing oil and water properly is called an emulsion. it is doable.


[Staff Edit]

Not sure what your point is here.

Is it that "teaching the 6 day creation theory is driving people away from the belief of God"?

No, I'm saying 'higher education' is forcing our kids to reconcile their faith with what they teach is the absolutes of science and when they do their faith is the one that is cut.
here is an article that explains this is greater detail:
Will You Lose Your Faith in College?

If so, what does Jesus walking on water, feeding the 5000, turning water instantly to very good wine, healing blind, healing deaf, healing crippled, defeating death and returning to earth, walking through walls, floating up into the sky... what do all of these supernatural events do to people's understanding of science..and belief in the bible and Christ?

College age kids never get to those questions as they can't get past genesis chapter 1. Couple that with the argument that Jesus also teaches/quotes from The creation narrative, and for most is proof he is not god. because if genesis 1 is wrong and Jesus teaches from it as a literal event then he too is wrong so no need to address any thing you brought up.

Understand these are not my argument this is what I have arguing against in my ministry.

I hardly believe that one can believe all of the numerous, recorded miracles of Christ, on which your and my salvation depends....yet, at the same time dismiss the biblical view that this same Christ created the universe exactly how He said that He did.

then you belong to the minority or rather you haven't been forced through the rigors of graduating from college RECENTLY.

Just look at some of the other posts. In the creation sub there is a kid in desperate need for 'proof' of creationism. What he is asking for is scientific proof so he can defend his faith/provide himself an atmosphere where he can believe in creation and at the same time hold fast to the theories of science. Kids today people today no longer have the ability or inclination to just hold a value that is in contrast with the collective social norms without feeling ostracized. look at the political climate and how polarized it is. there is no more live and let live. it's you must believe or you are a bad person.

 

[drich0150]

So, you are saying that the man that God created and breathed into the breath of life and gave him a soul... was not Adam?

I'm saying Adam created day 3 was Adam and he was given a soul, placed in the garden. I'm also saying God Created man kind on day 6 in his Image.. and nothing in Gen 1 says man made on day 6 was given a soul.

So again Adam Created day 3 (the very first living thing God created) was given a soul.

Mankind created in his IMAGE day 6 the very last thing god created was never recorded have been given a soul.

Because Adam could not be created day 3 as Gen 2 records and again on day 6. it means God created Adam separately and placed him in the garden from Adam made eve.

Then on day six made man kind in his image out side the garden (evolved man if this is what you need to believe) per Genesis 1 and was given the instruction to multiply.

This answers who Adam's children married, who populated the city cain built. why god had to mark cain's face. watch the video I explain all of this in greater detail. also explained all of this in the OP

 

[Hammster]

you asserted the original jews who received the prophesy of the messiah knew this prophesy spoke of the coming salvation Christ would provide on the cross to everyone. I'm asking for book chapter and verse.
Then I also asked that if you feel my theory was not biblically supported then please show me with book chapter and verse how or why you 'feel' that way.

Fair enough. Let’s try it this way. Were the first century Jews right in their understanding about what the Messiah would do?

 

[drich0150]

1/ How will your OP combat this problem?

I provides our children a logical and technically feasible way to fully embrace a literal 7 day creation and at the same time all of evolutionary theory without changing a single word of either narritive.
The actual how is laid out in the OP and the video I linked to.

2/ Science is fluid. Ever changing and always being challenged.. This is the true design of science.. to be continually questioned and challenged.

So? no matter how fluid it is it will never accept God nor genesis 1-3. What I have purposed allows for any changes science may make.

This is why the atheistic, Darwinian idea of evolution is still only a theory and the scientific world is leaving it..
Over 500 Scientists Proclaim Their Doubts About Darwin’s Theory of Evolution | Evolution News

Not as fast as our children are leaving the faith:
Will You Lose Your Faith in College?
70 to 80% loose their faith to the uncertainties of 'science.'

The job of science is not to provide the truth but rather steal it from our kids by planting doubt.

I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean by this...

read the posted article 'will you loose your faith in college"

Then.. they should put their faith in God and answer the biblical truth..

and a church that is loosing 70 to 80% of their children to science SHOULD come up with a better means of retaining/protecting the young in the faith UNTIL they Can 'put their faith in God and answer the biblical truth.'

They can always rest assured that in the end God will make these who propose to be wise.. to be shown as the fools that they are.

how can they when their seed is quickly taken away by the birds?

If they cannot hold their faith to the 6 days of creation.. as it is written in simple language and reinforced with "there was evening and there was morning.. the fist day"... Then how are they going to hold to the other numerous and supernatural miracles on which our very salvation depends?

Again Nothing I said changes the literal 7 day creation. that's what most people opposed assume. I advocate a literal 7 day creation and this theory allows for it AND evolution at the same time.

I don't see much of this.. I see more about a constant degradation. Sometimes slow, sometimes fast.. but continually downward.

start with the pure wickedness of Rome at the fall of the Roman Empire, and not the 1940s

 

[drich0150]

Fair enough. Let’s try it this way. Were the first century Jews right in their understanding about what the Messiah would do?

The ones that were, were ultimately call christians, everyone else who survived the great roman purge in 70Ad retained their original faith.

 

[Hammster]

The ones that were, were ultimately call christians, everyone else who survived the great roman purge in 70Ad retained their original faith.

You said “they misunderstood or rather had an incomplete understanding of a great number of things including Jesus and his role of the messiah. They were looking for someone to liberate them from roman rule, and rule over them as a warrior king/priest like David. Clearly they were wrong in their understanding.” I think we agree that they were wrong. How do we know this?

 

[drich0150]

You said “they misunderstood or rather had an incomplete understanding of a great number of things including Jesus and his role of the messiah. They were looking for someone to liberate them from roman rule, and rule over them as a warrior king/priest like David. Clearly they were wrong in their understanding.” I think we agree that they were wrong. How do we know this?

I was referring to the pharisees and sadducees/makers of the laws, you know the hypocrites that Jesus railed on for being blind guides.. That said many jewish people in fact did convert to christianity not know the prophecies well enough to know who or what Jesus was. Yet they still followed him.

We know the pharisees and sadducees reviled Jesus till his end because they conspired to bring about his end, despite his many miracles.

 

[JacksBratt]

No. My point is that the teaching an interpretation of the Bible (young earth creationism) that is obviously incorrect even to children in middle school makes Christians appear to be intellectually challenged and their message to be ridiculous.

"Obviously incorrect"? I think that this is your opinion. Not a fact.

I'll tell you what I think "makes Christians appear to be intellectually challenged and their message to be ridiculous." when people read a chapter out of the Bible, which is the word of God... a chapter that anyone could read and undertand, as it is written, to be very clear... and they try with all their theological twisting bending and skewing.. to show that it took billions of years.

Let’s not confuse what Jesus has said with what the creation accounts in Genesis say. Furthermore, let’s not confuse the miracle narratives with inaccurate information in the creation accounts.

Can you post "what Jesus has said with what the creation accounts in Genesis"?

 

[JacksBratt]

So someone very influential in the history of Christian thought wrote this a very long time ago, which contradicts the claim that the creation account was understood as describing a literal and recent six day creation for thousands of years.

I don't care how long people have held to one view or the other. Truth is truth no matter how old the lie is.

I don't care how "influential" this person was.

This person is not God.. and what God wrote holds much more value and credence than what this mere mortal wrote.

 

[JacksBratt]

So is human understanding of how sacred texts should be interpreted.

Well, some will bend it and change the interpretation to fit their worldly beliefs and needs.
However, God does not change and neither does the meaning of His word.

You should get your information about evolution from those who are actually involved in studying it. Evolution is no more atheistic than Special Relativity, and the idea that the scientific world is leaving naturalistic evolution behind is utterly wrong. Try talking to real Christian biologists.

I have found that the accedemia has poluted many Christians in all kinds of scientific fields.. to the point that they will present worldly views blended with Biblical truth..

 

[JacksBratt]

I have worked answering atheist question on line and in person since 2005. I understand that atheist will find no value here nor will be compelled by this theory. Which is why it is not for them. However those who grew up in christian families and have been sent to schooled and condition to believe everything with the term "science' tagged on it like the gospel truth, have issue with reconciling the science with faith. as a result 70 to 80% of christians children going off to college loose their faith by the time they graduate. The subject of organs is where most begin to doubt. This theory allows a belief in a literal 7 day creation, and all of evolution for the BELIEVER.


Mixing oil and water properly is called an emulsion. it is doable.


[Staff Edit]


No, I'm saying 'higher education' is forcing our kids to reconcile their faith with what they teach is the absolutes of science and when they do their faith is the one that is cut.
here is an article that explains this is greater detail:
Will You Lose Your Faith in College?


College age kids never get to those questions as they can't get past genesis chapter 1. Couple that with the argument that Jesus also teaches/quotes from The creation narrative, and for most is proof he is not god. because if genesis 1 is wrong and Jesus teaches from it as a literal event then he too is wrong so no need to address any thing you brought up.

Understand these are not my argument this is what I have arguing against in my ministry.


then you belong to the minority or rather you haven't been forced through the rigors of graduating from college RECENTLY.

Just look at some of the other posts. In the creation sub there is a kid in desperate need for 'proof' of creationism. What he is asking for is scientific proof so he can defend his faith/provide himself an atmosphere where he can believe in creation and at the same time hold fast to the theories of science. Kids today people today no longer have the ability or inclination to just hold a value that is in contrast with the collective social norms without feeling ostracized. look at the political climate and how polarized it is. there is no more live and let live. it's you must believe or you are a bad person.

Show me scientific proof that Christ brought Lazarus back from being dead for so long that they thought he would stink?
Show me scientific proof that an axe head floated, a donkey talked, the sun and moon stood still, and the Red sea parted.
Show me scientific proof that Jesus walked on water, instantly turned water to wine, healed a young girl from miles away, died and came back to life, saw over 500 people and then floated up to heaven.

That's what everyone holds on to... "white knuckled tight" as solid truth.... for their promised eternal life...

IMO.. you can't cherry pick the scripture that you want to hold true.. for your salvation cause you believe in a resurrected Christ.. and dump the 6 days of creation because it's not "scientific".

 

[JacksBratt]

I'm saying Adam created day 3 was Adam and he was given a soul, placed in the garden. I'm also saying God Created man kind on day 6 in his Image.. and nothing in Gen 1 says man made on day 6 was given a soul.

So again Adam Created day 3 (the very first living thing God created) was given a soul.

Mankind created in his IMAGE day 6 the very last thing god created was never recorded have been given a soul.

Because Adam could not be created day 3 as Gen 2 records and again on day 6. it means God created Adam separately and placed him in the garden from Adam made eve.

Then on day six made man kind in his image out side the garden (evolved man if this is what you need to believe) per Genesis 1 and was given the instruction to multiply.

This answers who Adam's children married, who populated the city cain built. why god had to mark cain's face. watch the video I explain all of this in greater detail. also explained all of this in the OP

I understand the ballet dance of what you are saying.

I'm really sorry.. but I don't need a shoe horn and smoke and mirrors to work out my solid belief that Christ could, with ease, create the entire universe as it is stated, in six literal days...

AND... that's what He said that He did.

Then, I move on to the other miraculous examples of God's work in this world... Right up to the miracles that He is doing today. Non of which are any less true.

 

[Hammster]

I was referring to the pharisees and sadducees/makers of the laws, you know the hypocrites that Jesus railed on for being blind guides.. That said many jewish people in fact did convert to christianity not know the prophecies well enough to know who or what Jesus was. Yet they still followed him.

We know the pharisees and sadducees reviled Jesus till his end because they conspired to bring about his end, despite his many miracles.

How do we know that they misunderstood or misrepresented what Messiah should be?

 

[sfs]

I don't care how long people have held to one view or the other. Truth is truth no matter how old the lie is.

That's nice but completely irrelevant to the conversation you inserted yourself into. A claim was made about how long a certain view was held. I offered evidence refuting that claim. You asked why I offered that evidence. I explained that it refuted a claim that had been made. Now it turns out you don't care about the claim or the evidence, making your contribution pointless.

 

[sfs]

Well, some will bend it and change the interpretation to fit their worldly beliefs and needs.

Your opinion -- and the extremely high value you place on it -- are noted.

I have found that the accedemia has poluted many Christians in all kinds of scientific fields.. to the point that they will present worldly views blended with Biblical truth..

Which does nothing to support your wholly incorrect claim that the scientific world is leaving evolution behind. Does it matter to you whether what you say is true?

 

[PrincetonGuy]

I understand the ballet dance of what you are saying.


I'm really sorry.. but I don't need a shoe horn and smoke and mirrors to work out my solid belief that Christ could, with ease, create the entire universe as it is stated, in six literal days...


AND... that's what He said that He did.

Do you have some data to support that assertion?

 

[drich0150]

Show me scientific proof that Christ brought Lazarus back from being dead for so long that they thought he would stink?
Show me scientific proof that an axe head floated, a donkey talked, the sun and moon stood still, and the Red sea parted.
Show me scientific proof that Jesus walked on water, instantly turned water to wine, healed a young girl from miles away, died and came back to life, saw over 500 people and then floated up to heaven.

That's what everyone holds on to... "white knuckled tight" as solid truth.... for their promised eternal life...

IMO.. you can't cherry pick the scripture that you want to hold true.. for your salvation cause you believe in a resurrected Christ.. and dump the 6 days of creation because it's not "scientific".

So again, as I told the first person who brought this up, nothing else after genesis need be questioned if the genesis account can be found in error as the Bible is supposed to be inerrant.

Meaning for those 70 to 80% of kids we are loosing are lost by the end of the first chapter, because they believe the biblical narrative can not be reconciled with evolutionary theory.

And I understand you do not have a problem with this as you see this as a problem with their faith.
a faith that never has a chance in getting started as it is stolen away before it has a chance of even ever taking root.

Then on the second 1/2 of your argument I have not cherry picked anything., I literally use everything the text says. I just come to a different conclusion based on what is there and what is not there. maybe read the op and or watch the video.

 

[drich0150]

How do we know that they misunderstood or misrepresented what Messiah should be?

the Bible. specifically the charge, arrest trial and execution of Jesus.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Here is a brief summary.
basically gen 1 is a 7 day over view, and ending day 6 with man made in the image of god (no soul). This version of man could have very well evolved, and been waiting outside the garden this whole time. Chapter 2:4 is the being of the garden only narrative. this narrative happens at the same time the 7 days of creation are happening. the true beginning of chapter two starts verse 4 and describes mid day on day 2 to be the start of the garden only narrative, and ends mid day three. So everything in the garden happens in one of god creation days. remember most all of chapter 2 is garden narrative only. meaning aside from the very first part of chapter 2 that describes day 7 the day of rest the rest of chapter two describes what only took place in the garden. it STARTS with the creation of a man named Adam. Adam was made of mud and given a soul. from Adam God made eve. then next thing of note there is no time line between chapter 2 and chapter 3. so while Adam and eve via the tree of life they did have access to, remain the same in the garden with god. everything outside the garden ‘evolved’ till about 6000 years ago where chapter three describes the fall of man. this is why the genologies stop 6000 years ago. So again at the very beginning of creation of earth on day 2 God makes adam and from adam made eve and they were placed in the garden with god by the end of day three and remain in the garden with god for potentially hundreds if not billions of years, while everything outside the garden is made to evolve. till about 6000 years ago when they were kicked out of the garden for their sins to then mix in with man made on day 6/evolved man

I go into much more detail in the video explain each day:

Except the scriptures say that Adam only lived to be 930 years old.

 

[Hammster]

the Bible. specifically the charge, arrest trial and execution of Jesus.

Is there anywhere that actually says what to expect from the Messiah?