House Intel chair Turner (R-OH) warns of 'serious national security threat' ahead of planned White House briefing

[Hans Blaster]

No. But his actions are equivalent to yelling 'fire' in a theater.
Did Hunter reveal some classified intel or something? If you think he did, please do tell so we can all be in on the 'classified intel'.

Hunter (I presume Biden) has nothing to do with this thread, just like Bowman doesn't.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I'm beginning to think that Speaker Johnson may not be very good at these things.

McCarthy's not looking so bad now is he lol

 

[Arcangl86]

McCarthy's not looking so bad now is he lol

Eh. I still think he was worse. I would rather take incompetent over incompetent and dishonest.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

At any given time, and for the last 70 years, there have been any number of grave nuclear threats to the US, and some of them have been pretty darned immediate. That's why the members of the Congresstional Intelligence committees have security clearances. There's no need to declassify them all.

In many cases, the fact we know a threat exists automatically reveals how we know it...and leads them to hide it better.

That's "the rub" as I see it...

There's two different perspectives (and there's validity to both)

1) Certain things have to remain secret because if they were public knowledge, that would both a- tip off potential enemies we're on to them (as you made reference to), and b- would cause panics that would destabilize and make bad situation worse

vs.

2) US taxpayers are paying to fund the US military industrial complex, and have a right to know what they're paying for. Which, at a basic level, I can understand the Ron/Rand Paul way of thinking on that. As, the notion of "you keep giving us your money, we can't tell you what we're doing with it, just know that we have your best interests in mind" doesn't necessarily sit well with a lot of people (and I get that)


Walking that delicate tightrope has always been a challenge for military superpowers. Two things that people almost universally dislike is having to pay taxes to fund these kinds of endeavors... and being kept in the dark on the details.

Whistleblowing made the situation even more murky...as the same entities we're supposed to entrust with keeping us safe (even if they can't share the details) were exposed as having been spying on American citizens.

The "unfortunate reality" of this whole thing is that in order for an entity to have enough surveillance power to keep Americans safe, that comes with the ability of performing the kind of warrantless "snooping" on people that leaves a bad taste in a lot of peoples' mouths.

I heard an interview with a former SF operator (I forget the details of who was conducting the interview now, but I'm sure it'll keep me awake trying to think of it now that I'm mentioning it lol), but they called it "The Due Process Conundrum". What he was explaining was that you can't 100% due process & privacy and 100% security...and that it's more like assigning attribute points to a character in a video game "You've got these 100 points, you can allocate some to due process and privacy, and can allocate some to security...but they both can't be 100 simultaneously, they can only add up to 100"

 

[RDKirk]

That's "the rub" as I see it...

There's two different perspectives (and there's validity to both)

1) Certain things have to remain secret because if they were public knowledge, that would both a- tip off potential enemies we're on to them (as you made reference to), and b- would cause panics that would destabilize and make bad situation worse

vs.

2) US taxpayers are paying to fund the US military industrial complex, and have a right to know what they're paying for. Which, at a basic level, I can understand the Ron/Rand Paul way of thinking on that. As, the notion of "you keep giving us your money, we can't tell you what we're doing with it, just know that we have your best interests in mind" doesn't necessarily sit well with a lot of people (and I get that)


Walking that delicate tightrope has always been a challenge for military superpowers. Two things that people almost universally dislike is having to pay taxes to fund these kinds of endeavors... and being kept in the dark on the details.

Whistleblowing made the situation even more murky...as the same entities we're supposed to entrust with keeping us safe (even if they can't share the details) were exposed as having been spying on American citizens.

The "unfortunate reality" of this whole thing is that in order for an entity to have enough surveillance power to keep Americans safe, that comes with the ability of performing the kind of warrantless "snooping" on people that leaves a bad taste in a lot of peoples' mouths.

I heard an interview with a former SF operator (I forget the details of who was conducting the interview now, but I'm sure it'll keep me awake trying to think of it now that I'm mentioning it lol), but they called it "The Due Process Conundrum". What he was explaining was that you can't 100% due process & privacy and 100% security...and that it's more like assigning attribute points to a character in a video game "You've got these 100 points, you can allocate some to due process and privacy, and can allocate some to security...but they both can't be 100 simultaneously, they can only add up to 100"

This particular issue has nothing to do with what surveillance there might be that touches American citizens. This particular issue is all about a foreign power with likely hostile intent, totally within the wheelhouse of the US foreign intelligence community.

The only reason the information is not disseminated to American citizens is because there is no way to do that without informing those hostile nations at the same time.

Most people understand that.

 

[Hans Blaster]

McCarthy's not looking so bad now is he lol

Compared to the XNat speaker, yeah he isn't so bad.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Hunter (I presume Biden) has nothing to do with this thread, just like Bowman doesn't.

My bad. Replace 'Hunter' with Turner.

 

[civilwarbuff]

just like Bowman doesn't.

Contrast and compare.....legitimate debating tool......

 

[Hans Blaster]

Contrast and compare.....legitimate debating tool......

It is not clear what you think Bowman did or what it has to do with national security or intelligence.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

This particular issue has nothing to do with what surveillance there might be that touches American citizens. This particular issue is all about a foreign power with likely hostile intent, totally within the wheelhouse of the US foreign intelligence community.

The only reason the information is not disseminated to American citizens is because there is no way to do that without informing those hostile nations at the same time.

Most people understand that.

Given that most foreign adversaries have some sort of domestic contacts, I think the point still stands.

If the US was filled with 330 million people who were an "ideologically impenetrable wall of loyalty", most foreign espionage efforts wouldn't get off the ground.

You look at the any major negative event that took place, they almost always involved an "inside contact".

The reality is, there's no way to prevent that sans having the ability to spy on Americans (which, as I noted, doesn't sit right with people).

So it's still the balancing act I mentioned before.


You can't have 100% "privacy/due process" and 100% security simultaneously.

It's a conundrum.

 

[mindlight]

CNN is talking about a space-based nuclear EMP-type weapon now

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/16/politics/russia-nuclear-space-weapon-intelligence/index.html

 

[civilwarbuff]

It is not clear what you think Bowman did

Yes, it is quite clear what he did. Feigning ignorance of his actions is beneath you.

what it has to do with national security or intelligence.

And again, what specific did info did Turner release that had anything to do with national security or intel? You still have not specified.

 

[RDKirk]

CNN is talking about a space-based nuclear EMP-type weapon now

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/16/politics/russia-nuclear-space-weapon-intelligence/index.html

EMP isn't the magic weapon most people think it is. Most significantly, EMP is not an effective counter-force weapon. The US nuclear forces are armored against EMP, and the US can very quickly replace intelligence satellites...without Elon Musk.

Civilians tend to think that an effective weapon is one that kills civilians. A weapon that harms mostly civilians is like shooting John Wick's dog.

 

[mindlight]

EMP isn't the magic weapon most people think it is. Most significantly, EMP is not an effective counter-force weapon. The US nuclear forces are armored against EMP, and the US can very quickly replace intelligence satellites...without Elon Musk.

Civilians tend to think that an effective weapon is one that kills civilians. A weapon that harms mostly civilians is like shooting John Wick's dog.

Militarily there is a space launch capability for replacements and insulation and reboot options for military satellites also, but an EMP pulse in space would have major economic effects. As a stage of escalation, especially nuclear escalation, it would avoid civilian deaths while causing immense civilian damage.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Yes, it is quite clear what he did. Feigning ignorance of his actions is beneath you.

And again, what specific did info did Turner release that had anything to do with national security or intel? You still have not specified.

I don't know what Bowman has to do with this thread. You do not make your point clearly.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I don't know what Bowman has to do with this thread. You do not make your point clearly.

So once more you refuse to answer the question. So I won't waste any more pixels on your so called 'replies'.

I don't know what Bowman has to do with this thread. You do not make your point clearly.

Sorry you are not familiar with 'contrast and compare'. It is very common in essay writing as well as debating. Maybe you should study up on it, expand your understanding of other methodologies for communicating ideas and positions. It can be enlightening!

 

[RDKirk]

Militarily there is a space launch capability for replacements and insulation and reboot options for military satellites also, but an EMP pulse in space would have major economic effects. As a stage of escalation, especially nuclear escalation, it would avoid civilian deaths while causing immense civilian damage.

As I said, that's like shooting John Wick's dog.

The problem with trying to gradually escalate any kind of nuclear warfare is that nuclear escalation can't be controlled. Any use of any kind of nuclear weapon is akin to a gunslinger facing his opponent at high noon and then suddenly going for his weapon with intent of firing a warning shot. That might be his intent...but the other fellow doesn't know that. Maybe the other fellow will hold off his own draw to see if it's going to be a shot into the air instead of into his heart...but he probably won't.

 

[Hans Blaster]

So once more you refuse to answer the question. So I won't waste any more pixels on your so called 'replies'.

Sorry you are not familiar with 'contrast and compare'. It is very common in essay writing as well as debating. Maybe you should study up on it, expand your understanding of other methodologies for communicating ideas and positions. It can be enlightening!

It's hard to read your mind on why Rep Bowman is relevant to this thread. He is not on the relevant committee.

 

[civilwarbuff]

It's hard to read your mind on why Rep Bowman is relevant to this thread.

Well, if you haven't figgered it out by now, nothing I explain will help you so I guess you will have to remain clueless.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Well, if you haven't figgered it out by now, nothing I explain will help you so I guess you will have to remain clueless.

Sounds fine. Could we go back to the thread topic then?