Hostility between LDS and mainstream Christians

Status
Not open for further replies.

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Marital Status
Married
The angels are spirits:
(New Testament | Hebrews 1:13 - 14)

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
There is more than one God and more than one Lord:
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:5)

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
 
Upvote 0

Jane_Doe

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2015
6,658
1,043
115
✟100,321.00
Faith
I described the issue. I also described the way reason provides a solution. Maybe an example in my Post that shows what you mean?
It didn't really get at the answer, but I'm not going to loose sleep about it.
theologians discover deeper meaing. You are right they don't decide.
For LDS men (including theologians) don't discover deeper meaning. Rather, God reveals & teaches Truth.
Not a problem I don't require explicit expression of Truth from the text. Reason ascends to my faith because God created human reason and is the means he gave us to reach Him. That is what we discern between us.
Thank you for your honest answer here. It is much appreciated.
 
Upvote 0

Eloy Craft

Myth only points, Truth happened!
Site Supporter
Jan 9, 2018
3,132
871
Chandler
✟386,808.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
That all makes for a clever story but that isn't what God revealed. If what you say were true then nothing in fact was revealed. When God reveals Himself it is always a 'New thing' a 'who could believe such a thing' kind of thing. Messenger protocol between royal houses in the middle east doesn't cut it as divine revelation. I'll vote for consubstantiation any day. That was a kind of unity no one had ever heard of. That's what divine revelation is to the world. Don't kid yourself thinking that messenger protocols can take the place of divine revelation.
 
Upvote 0

Eloy Craft

Myth only points, Truth happened!
Site Supporter
Jan 9, 2018
3,132
871
Chandler
✟386,808.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
With God, His substance is His Nature and His Essence. It's from this understanding we can say God is Love. God is Life. God doesn't possess these attributes like a creature but is those attributes. Substance as it pertains to God is also His Nature and Essence.
The oneness exclusive to God is reasoned out from 'always been'. There are three realities in the bible that are revealed as having 'always been'. In the beginning....Jesus is the beginning and in Him all things are. God created. This is the Father, it's his will that is originating the creative act. Through the Father's Word who is Jesus He speaks everything into being. Like the warmth of the sun on your face, the Spirit of God moves "like the River of Life" on the waters. These are the three persons being God. If a person has always been, it follows, that person is not created. Not a creature like every other being. There are only three persons that are uncreated and always being. They are one in being uncreated and having always been. The oneness of will, of purpose, and such, are unity that created beings possess as divine gifts united to God but can't make a created thing uncreated or be without beginning. That is the exclusive kind of One in Being that only the three Divine Persons are. That is Natural to them, and Essential to Being God. That is the substance that Jesus is with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Very exclusive club. If another claims to have always been it wouldn't constitute another being but another person in the one being of God. If you claim an entire people as having always been,by definition they are uncreated so they can't reasonably be called gods but they would be a multitude of divine persons being One God. They too would be consubstantial with the Father. That's just silliness though.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God ( the Father and the Son)created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God ( yup) moved upon the face of the waters.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Eloy Craft

Myth only points, Truth happened!
Site Supporter
Jan 9, 2018
3,132
871
Chandler
✟386,808.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The person that is the Father has always existed.
The person that is the Son has always existed.
The person that is the Spirit has always existed.

All of them are 100% eternal.
The primary meaning of eternal realities is that they are Changeless. That just so happens to be an endless duration and for God one without a beginning. Hence God is the same yesterday , today and tomorrow. God is always God and isn't in a state of becoming or ever was, like His creation. Unmoved Mover, Uncaused Cause God is self subsistent existence. These realities don't square with what most of us understand as the revelation to Joseph Smith. A Being that became God and is created by a God above, that is another being that became God and is created by a God above.......this infinite regress is not Mormon teaching anymore?
 
Upvote 0

Eloy Craft

Myth only points, Truth happened!
Site Supporter
Jan 9, 2018
3,132
871
Chandler
✟386,808.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Matter has always existed
Friend, everything we observe in the universe has a beginning, a middle and an end. Science can't claim that matter is in a changeless state. Science affirms the universe is in a state of becoming.
 
Upvote 0

Jane_Doe

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2015
6,658
1,043
115
✟100,321.00
Faith
I respect your beliefs and thank you for explaining them.

If you would like to understand LDS beliefs here, the first thing which needs to be talked about is that LDS don't believe living forever is what makes God God. Rather God is defined by His perfect will, justice, mercy, love, etc. It's not about living forever (though LDS certainly do believe God has always existed). Does that make sense?
 
Upvote 0

Eloy Craft

Myth only points, Truth happened!
Site Supporter
Jan 9, 2018
3,132
871
Chandler
✟386,808.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Thank you. I respect yours too. Although I can't agree that behaviors that are natural for humans can define God.
 
Reactions: Jane_Doe
Upvote 0

Jane_Doe

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2015
6,658
1,043
115
✟100,321.00
Faith
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Eloy Craft

Myth only points, Truth happened!
Site Supporter
Jan 9, 2018
3,132
871
Chandler
✟386,808.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Thank you. It means a ton to me.

Perfect love is in no way native to humans. Nor perfect justice, mercy, will, etc.
I do believe though that God created us naturally perfect.
 
Upvote 0

Eloy Craft

Myth only points, Truth happened!
Site Supporter
Jan 9, 2018
3,132
871
Chandler
✟386,808.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
... I'm sorry, but my brain just isn't comprehending this sentence (I woke up at 4 AM this morning). Would just mind re-phrasing it for my sleep deprived self?
That was kinda funny! It takes me an hour or two or more to get rid of the morning haze. I can't seem to think of what it I am rephrasing. I'de better go to bed, I work in 6 hours. I hope we can take this up again later. Bye and God's blessings
 
Reactions: Jane_Doe
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,539
6,413
Midwest
✟81,727.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed

According to Mormonism, some angels are resurrected humans, and I've never heard a Mormon say that angels are a different species from humans.
 
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,442
1,983
Washington
✟221,619.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It's a head-scratcher, alright.
Amen to that!

I think it's disingenuous at best for an lds to claim their church doesn't believe or teach a certain subject, when, in fact, it can be found in official lds-published student/priesthood manuals and/or on the official lds.org website. At worst, I'd say it was lying, but I try to give the benefit of the doubt.

At least Peter1000 admitted a while back that he hoped to achieve godhood through the lds "progression".
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Marital Status
Married
God also created Man out of the dust of the earth:

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:27)

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Created out of matter that already existed. Much of what you said is not Biblical, so where did it come from, and how do you know it is correct?
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Marital Status
Married
According to Mormonism, some angels are resurrected humans, and I've never heard a Mormon say that angels are a different species from humans.
All of the angels are spirit children of God. Some have lived and some haven't.
 
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,442
1,983
Washington
✟221,619.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The person that is the Father has always existed.
The person that is the Son has always existed.
The person that is the Spirit has always existed.

All of them are 100% eternal.

Did the Father always exist as God the Father, or did he progress?
Did the Son always exist as God the Son, or did he progress?
Did the Spirit always exist as God the Spirit, or did he progress?

Are they 100% eternal as God?

Can you please clarify your statements?
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Marital Status
Married
So did Paul:

(New Testament | Philippians 3:14 - 15)

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Can you please clarify your statements?
Jesus knew who we are:

(New Testament | John 10:34 - 35)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.