Hostility between LDS and mainstream Christians

[He is the way]

Matter has not always existed. God spoke it into being.

No one has said that Jesus is a demi-god.

Had He not been fully God as well as full man while He live here with us - then yes He would be a demi-god even now.

What do you believe God is? Do you believe God is made of nothing?

 

[Marvin Knox]

What do you believe God is? Do you believe God is made of nothing?

Outside of the incarnation God is Spirit.

But the Spirit was always God and He did not "become" God.

Whatever we are talking about with those who may "become God" - it or they are not "eternally" God.

It is the eternal we are talking about when we talk about God.

If we are talking about created gods or those who might somehow become God - we are talking about something less than the one true eternal God.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Of course it makes sense. But His becoming "God" would not.

No - nor have I said so.

If He had not been fully God while being fully human - then yes I would consider Him a demi-god even now.

But He was fully God as well as fully man.

Ok.

Now, talking about the two speculations quotes about the Father's past (speculations which aren't LDS doctrine, aren't actually taught or discussed in LDS church, and an LDS person is free to completely disagree and be 100% in good standing):
The speculation theory is that the Son follows in the Father's footsteps, and that the Father once lived a mortal life like we've seen Christ do. This does not make Him or Christ a demi-god by any stretch.


Again, that's speculation and not revealed doctrine.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Well, you have to keep in mind that, like any language you have to know gobbledygookian to know if it's a good translation or not. When we pronounce the name Jesus, do you believe Jesus ever heard Himself called that? That is a translation of a translation that to Jesus' Jewish ears would have been gobbledygook. I'll show you Jesus teaching that He is consubstantial with the Father.

John 14
8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

That is a oneness that doesn't have a word to express it precisely, but the gobbledygookian word 'consubstantial' comes closer to it than any other word.

John 14
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?

In gobbledygookian that might be: "Do you not believe that I and the Father are consubstantial?"

The words in the bible are symbols that are transitory and subjective, it's the 'sub-stance' under the words, that words are mere symbols of, that is objective and changeless truth.

There are a couple of truths which went right over the heads of those writing up the creeds.

1, The Jews of the Sanhedrin in Jesus day were in a state of apostasy, the one god they worshiped was a false god. Malachi had told them they were worshiping the daughter of a strange god. They no longer worshiped El as their Father and supreme God. They had merged El and Yahweh into one god, a false god. That’s what most of the augments between Jesus and the Jews was about. They didn’t know the Father.

But there were a small sect of Jews who held on to the older tradition of Father and Son.

John 1 “ Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God/El; thou art the King of Israel/Yahweh.”

Also John 14

“ Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.”

Both of these men assumed the Father and Son were two separate beings.

2, The medieval Christians did not understand the Jewish custom or cultural significance of agent. The following is from the Jewish Encyclopedia.

“The Law of Agency deals with the status of a person (known as the agent) acting by direction of another (the principal), and thereby legally binding the principal in his connection with a third person. The person who binds a principal in this manner is his agent, known in Jewish law as shelua? or shelia? (one that is sent): the relation of the former to the latter is known as agency (shelihut). The general principle is enunciated thus: A man's agent is like himself “

Now lets apply these to ideas to John 5

17 ¶ But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

This is what an agent was considered, a man’s agent is like himself especially in a father son relationship. With their believe in one God only this was blasphemy.

But Jesus makes another point; Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, …. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

In other words he was saying the Father is greater than I but he gives me the power to judge. So that means he is not the Father, he is separate being from the Father.

Then he says;

“That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him…. I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me…And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me….I am come in my Father’s name,..”

Again using the principle of agent, the idea of one sent to represent a principal Jesus is not saying he is the Father in anyway shape or form.

Even in the Old Testament this holds true;

*In Mal 2 Yahweh explains his agent or mediator position

8 And if ye offer the blind for /El that he will be gracious unto us: this hath been by your means: will he regard your persons? saith the Lord of hosts.

So they lay their offering on Yahweh’s alter asking him to beach El in their behave.

*You see it again in Isa 43; “ I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.” and then he says “I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.”

If there is no other God to who is Yahweh pleading?

*Ex 6
2 And God(s) spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord:
3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God/El Almighty/Shadday but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

So he spoke to Abraham as the agent of El and didn’t use his own name until he spoke to Moses. It is as if Yahweh is reading a letter from El to Abraham.

*In John 5 Jesus said;
“If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true…But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me….”

In Isa 42 there is a precursor to the day of Jesus’ baptism when an un-named voice which must be the Father makes a statement of authority.

“1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.”

He is sending his son, and he has the authority to speak for him.

And then Yahweh/Jesus speaks declaring his own authority.

5 ¶ Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

* in John 14 the way to understand this lies with verse 20

“At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you”

He is speaking by way of symbolism or metaphorically and not reality.

It is odd how you take “ Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” as a metaphor and we don’t. We think “he that hath seen me hath seen the Father” as symbolic and you don’t.

He also says “I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”

Is he going to himself? And how is he greater than himself? Or is he himself? The Trinity makes one throw out all logic.

Let’s go back to the Jewish Encyclopedia

“A man's agent is like himself "

This statement

“Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father..”

isn’t given in isolation.

“Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me…. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.” John 12

“ Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God..” John 13

He was trying to make the people understand that he is the agent of the Father and so if you have seen Him you have seen the Father.

No hocus-pocus consubstantial and I don’t have to believe in it to be a Christian.

The Bible teaches a Father and Son relationship with Jesus being the mediator between us and our Father in Heaven. That’s the God I’m going to worship.

 

[dzheremi]

At the root of all this satanic nonsense is hubris. After all, what is different in this "I don't have to believe it!" from the Mormon and "I don't have to do what you say!" from the adversary, who refused to obey God?

And indeed you don't, Mormons...no one can compel you to believe in anything you don't want to. If you want to be recognized as Christian, however, you do, as the same standard applies to everyone. You don't get to have your own separate thing that you call "Christianity" that is filled in whatever beliefs you prefer so that you can keep following your false prophet Joseph Smith. If it were otherwise, the heretics of the first centuries like the Montanists/Phyrgians, Marcionites, etc. would not have been cast out of the church in the first two centuries for doing the same thing you're doing now.

As always, if you did not insist that your religion is a kind of Christianity, no one would think to hold you to the standard held to by actual Christians in the first place. So it's not that Christians have somehow betrayed the Jewish roots of Christianity or whatever nonsense by not being Mormons (as I've stated before, the Syriac/Neo-Aramaic and Greek-speaking peoples who are the descendants of the peoples who actually inhabited the Near East in the first century are not Mormons, but various kinds of Christians; that's not a mistake, as they are simply persisting in the faith they received from Christ and His apostles), but that you attempt to link yourselves to the scriptures when no such link actually exists outside of Joseph Smith's borrowing certain Biblical figures and narratives for his own purposes in setting up his patently false, anti-Christian replacement religion. That will always, always fail. You can't even get the basics right because your founder couldn't either, and so rather than going back to the roots and considering that maybe a 19th century farm boy didn't 'rediscover' anything by penning some Bible fan-fiction for which there is zero evidence, you instead must pin the your fault on the entire church in every place throughout history, as though nobody else could've ever gotten anything right, no matter how much closer they were and are to the culture, environment, and ethos of the Holy Land that actually gave us the scriptures to begin with.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

 

[twin.spin]

We don't reject worship of Jesus:
(Book of Mormon | 3 Nephi 19:18 - 23)

18 And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.
19 And it came to pass that Jesus departed out of the midst of them, and went a little way off from them and bowed himself to the earth, and he said:
20 Father, I thank thee that thou hast given the Holy Ghost unto these whom I have chosen; and it is because of their belief in me that I have chosen them out of the world.
21 Father, I pray thee that thou wilt give the Holy Ghost unto all them that shall believe in their words.
22 Father, thou hast given them the Holy Ghost because they believe in me; and thou seest that they believe in me because thou hearest them, and they pray unto me; and they pray unto me because I am with them.
23 And now Father, I pray unto thee for them, and also for all those who shall believe on their words, that they may believe in me, that I may be in them as thou, Father, art in me, that we may be one.

According to:
"worship your Heavenly Father and express your gratitude for His Son, Jesus Christ" (True to the Faith, p. 188).

Since Mormons do not believe in the Trinity, you aren't "worshiping" Jesus in the same context as "worshiping" God since you believe you're following the first commandment of worshipping only one God when you only "worship" Heavenly Father.

 

[He is the way]

Outside of the incarnation God is Spirit.

But the Spirit was always God and He did not "become" God.

Whatever we are talking about with those who may "become God" - it or they are not "eternally" God.

It is the eternal we are talking about when we talk about God.

If we are talking about created gods or those who might somehow become God - we are talking about something less than the one true eternal God.

So do you believe that spirit is immaterial? Can a spirit move from place to place? Does the spirit have an image (hands, feet face,etc.)? How long in earth days did it take to create the earth?

 

[He is the way]

According to:
"worship your Heavenly Father and express your gratitude for His Son, Jesus Christ" (True to the Faith, p. 188).

Since Mormons do not believe in the Trinity, you aren't "worshiping" Jesus in the same context as "worshiping" God since you believe you're following the first commandment of worshipping only one God when you only "worship" Heavenly Father.

We believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are one God:

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 31:21)

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

 

[He is the way]

At the root of all this satanic nonsense is hubris. After all, what is different in this "I don't have to believe it!" from the Mormon and "I don't have to do what you say!" from the adversary, who refused to obey God?

And indeed you don't, Mormons...no one can compel you to believe in anything you don't want to. If you want to be recognized as Christian, however, you do, as the same standard applies to everyone. You don't get to have your own separate thing that you call "Christianity" that is filled in whatever beliefs you prefer so that you can keep following your false prophet Joseph Smith. If it were otherwise, the heretics of the first centuries like the Montanists/Phyrgians, Marcionites, etc. would not have been cast out of the church in the first two centuries for doing the same thing you're doing now.

As always, if you did not insist that your religion is a kind of Christianity, no one would think to hold you to the standard held to by actual Christians in the first place. So it's not that Christians have somehow betrayed the Jewish roots of Christianity or whatever nonsense by not being Mormons (as I've stated before, the Syriac/Neo-Aramaic and Greek-speaking peoples who are the descendants of the peoples who actually inhabited the Near East in the first century are not Mormons, but various kinds of Christians; that's not a mistake, as they are simply persisting in the faith they received from Christ and His apostles), but that you attempt to link yourselves to the scriptures when no such link actually exists outside of Joseph Smith's borrowing certain Biblical figures and narratives for his own purposes in setting up his patently false, anti-Christian replacement religion. That will always, always fail. You can't even get the basics right because your founder couldn't either, and so rather than going back to the roots and considering that maybe a 19th century farm boy didn't 'rediscover' anything by penning some Bible fan-fiction for which there is zero evidence, you instead must pin the your fault on the entire church in every place throughout history, as though nobody else could've ever gotten anything right, no matter how much closer they were and are to the culture, environment, and ethos of the Holy Land that actually gave us the scriptures to begin with.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not anti-Christ. The doctrine of Christ is to repent, be baptized, keep the commandments, and help others. Opposing this doctrine would be satanic.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes Jesus was made a little lower than the angels. How does these scriptures support your belief that the Father was never human? Jesus said:
(New Testament | John 5:19)

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Jesus was made human--Jesus was not human before He came to earth. You yourself said Jesus and the Father were one before the incarnation--which means the Father couldn't have been human either.
Jesus created everything---and everything means everything--not just in this world---everything anywhere---if there was a planet with any kind of lifeform-Jesus created it. We are the only ones that are made in His image--The Father did not exist before Jesus---Jesus did not create His Father. The theory that God the Father was human before becoming God, doesn't hold up to scripture, for Jesus would have had to create that being---Jesus never saw His Father die for a bunch of other people on another planet for Jesus would have had to create all those people and it just didn't happen. JS used no logic, no scripture, no common sense---no---No Holy Spirit.

Jesus did the will of His Father--He did not have to see Him do anything anymore than we had to see for ourselves everything that Jesus did in order for us to do those things--we can do whatever we ask of Jesus without ever having seen anything.

Joh_8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Joh_8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
Joh_10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh_10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh_14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

 

[mmksparbud]

We believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are one God:

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 31:21)

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

And? So does Satan.

 

[twin.spin]

According to:
"worship your Heavenly Father and express your gratitude for His Son, Jesus Christ" (True to the Faith, p. 188).

Since Mormons do not believe in the Trinity, you aren't "worshiping" Jesus in the same context as "worshiping" God since you believe you're following the first commandment of worshipping only one God when you only "worship" Heavenly Father.

​

We believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are one God:

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 31:21)

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

Enough of the hubris clever to borderline dishonest with carefully crafted wording. We know that Mormonism teaches that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are one God in unity:

President Gordon B. Hinckley said: (concerning Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost),​

“They are distinct beings, but they are one in purpose and effort. They are united as one in bringing to pass the grand, divine plan for the salvation and exaltation of the children of God. … It is that perfect unity between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost that binds these three into the oneness of the divine Godhead”
(Conference Report, Oct. 1986, 69; or Ensign, Nov. 1986, 51).​

Also, Mormons don’t pray to Jesus. Mormons pray to Heavenly Father through Jesus Christ because then that is keeping with the First Commandment according Mormonism:

“As you reverently partake of the sacrament and attend the temple, you remember and worship your Heavenly Father and express your gratitude for His Son, Jesus Christ” (True to the Faith, p. 188). ​

 

[twin.spin]

And? So does Satan.

He is the way is attempting to be clever or wantonly obfuscating since they know when Biblical Christianity speaks of "one God" it is in context of the Triune God ... and for him to deliberately leave out the words "in unity" show the intent to be misleading because there is a BIG DIFFERENCE in theology between:

"We believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are one God:"​

and

"We believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are one God IN UNITY"​

 

[BigDaddy4]

Ok.

Now, talking about the two speculations quotes about the Father's past (speculations which aren't LDS doctrine, aren't actually taught or discussed in LDS church, and an LDS person is free to completely disagree and be 100% in good standing):
The speculation theory is that the Son follows in the Father's footsteps, and that the Father once lived a mortal life like we've seen Christ do. This does not make Him or Christ a demi-god by any stretch.


Again, that's speculation and not revealed doctrine.

So your church teaches "speculation" and false doctrine? Or are you really going to deny that the lds church does in fact teach this concept in their official publications (website, teaching manuals, etc)?

 

[He is the way]

Jesus was made human--Jesus was not human before He came to earth. You yourself said Jesus and the Father were one before the incarnation--which means the Father couldn't have been human either.
Jesus created everything---and everything means everything--not just in this world---everything anywhere---if there was a planet with any kind of lifeform-Jesus created it. We are the only ones that are made in His image--The Father did not exist before Jesus---Jesus did not create His Father. The theory that God the Father was human before becoming God, doesn't hold up to scripture, for Jesus would have had to create that being---Jesus never saw His Father die for a bunch of other people on another planet for Jesus would have had to create all those people and it just didn't happen. JS used no logic, no scripture, no common sense---no---No Holy Spirit.

Jesus did the will of His Father--He did not have to see Him do anything anymore than we had to see for ourselves everything that Jesus did in order for us to do those things--we can do whatever we ask of Jesus without ever having seen anything.

Joh_8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Joh_8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
Joh_10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh_10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh_14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

You said:"Jesus was made human--Jesus was not human before He came to earth. You yourself said Jesus and the Father were one before the incarnation--which means the Father couldn't have been human either." Perhaps you believe they are one in substance, I don't. I believe everyone has always existed in one form or another. At the present time we are in human form however the body without the spirit is dead. Once the body dies it returns to the earth and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Spirits are angels. They are made of matter but it is much finer and we can't see it.

 

[Eloy Craft]

don't my question properly conveyed- which was my shortcoming, not yours, so I apologize for it. Let me trying asking a different way:
LDS view God as sovereign. He is what He is, regardless of whom anyone else is. It doesn't matter who we are at any point in time-- God is who He is, in no way dependent on us. So if I'm talking about God, I don't usually talk about man cause we don't matter in that regard (who He is doesn't depend on who we are). I just say "God is X".

I noticed in your explanations all incorporated man along the lines of "God is X, man is Y", which to me implied some dependence (instead of just saying "God is X" and leaving it at that). Hence, I was wondering why that was.

I described the issue. I also described the way reason provides a solution. Maybe an example in my Post that shows what you mean?

The point of my comment was that LDS theologians don't decide LDS theology, in response to your comment along the lines of "LDS theologians haven't really decided this" (pardon my laziness for not fetching the exact quote).

theologians discover deeper meaing. You are right they don't decide.

How do you feel about something which is viewed as so critical to being a Christian is only implied in the Bible?

Not a problem I don't require explicit expression of Truth from the text. Reason ascends to my faith because God created human reason and is the means he gave us to reach Him. That is what we discern between us.

 

[mmksparbud]

You said:"Jesus was made human--Jesus was not human before He came to earth. You yourself said Jesus and the Father were one before the incarnation--which means the Father couldn't have been human either." Perhaps you believe they are one in substance, I don't. I believe everyone has always existed in one form or another. At the present time we are in human form however the body without the spirit is dead. Once the body dies it returns to the earth and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Spirits are angels. They are made of matter but it is much finer and we can't see it.

The angels were created just like us---and never existed before being created--another J/S lie. absolutely not scriptural. That is your trouble--you take the word of a man, over the word of God and you will never be able to comprehend the truth because of it.

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
God was never human before He became God---not one tiny little suggestion of it, for we are the only ones that the bible calls human. That is what the name Adam means.
You truly have no concept of how utterly ridiculous it is to think that something out there can make itself into an all powerful God by doing some things. What things did this human do to make Himself God?---you describe this preexisting primordial man as a human--with no creator, because He was made by his father who always existed, who was made by his father who always existed, going back forever--as some sort of intelligence---but God said there is no other God but Him. JS stands as an idolater an anyone who believes the same is one also and will never be able to stand in the presence of the ONE AND ONLY GOD. Thou shalt have no other gods before ME---clear and distinct--not one million other endless gods that are out there on other planets and you will also be one---then you say but you really only worship the Father--yah--the Father of this planet---you think there are millions of other fathers on other planets and one day you will be one. There is only ONE GOD and He has a Son and a Holy Spirit. And His Son is the creator of every thing ---EVERYTHING.

 

[Marvin Knox]

So do you believe that spirit is immaterial? Can a spirit move from place to place? Does the spirit have an image (hands, feet face,etc.)? How long in earth days did it take to create the earth?

Wow - so many questions.

How bout this one?

What was so wrong with the simple gospel preached to the Philippian jailer that it needed to be rescued and embroidered on by a shyster on another continent in the 19th century?

One should always compare any new teaching to the original teaching and if it contradicts the original you throw it out.

Most of Christianity has done exactly that with the Mormon gospel (which is really no gospel at all).

 

[dzheremi]

So your church teaches "speculation" and false doctrine? Or are you really going to deny that the lds church does in fact teach this concept in their official publications (website, teaching manuals, etc)?

At this point, having discussed this issue quite a bit with Mormons, as I know you and many others have as well, I get the feeling that the only things they'll take as official are the works which they have voted into their canon as scripture. It seems that everything else is consigned to speculation or the like, regardless of how highly it is praised and the words used to praise it (i.e., even if their own church praises it by calling it "doctrine" and "a cherished and distinctive belief" of their people, as the official LDS website does concerning their "Heavenly Mother" idea).

Perhaps there are other Mormon individuals who would not be so cagey about it and would openly admit that speaking or writing of ideas in this fashion at least makes them seem like they're official doctrine, since they're described as doctrine by the media organs of their church like the LDS' official website, but we are not so lucky as to have those particular Mormons here.

Instead we get the endless "That's not doctrine!" and "That's not official!" protestations that do nothing to explain why it would be, if that is in fact the case, that they are referred to as doctrines and cherished beliefs in the very same sources which we are told by the very same Mormons that we must rely on to make sure that we are learning what official doctrine is (official LDS websites and publications).

It's a head-scratcher, alright.

 

[He is the way]

Wow - so many questions.

How bout this one?

What was so wrong with the simple gospel preached to the Philippian jailer that it needed to be rescued and embroidered on by a shyster on another continent in the 19th century?

One should always compare any new teaching to the original teaching and if it contradicts the original you throw it out.

Most of Christianity has done exactly that with the Mormon gospel (which is really no gospel at all).

So that is what the Jews did to the New Testament, they threw it out. They threw it out because they don't believe it matches the original. Perhaps they believe Jesus was a shyster. However Jesus said:
(New Testament | John 10:16)

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

You didn't answer my questions.