• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

"Hoodwinked"

Voegelin

Reactionary
Aug 18, 2003
20,145
1,430
Connecticut
✟26,726.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
JACK CASHILL
catholiceducation.org

For a century, "progressive" writers and filmmakers have been using falsehood and fraud as primary weapons in their assault on traditional American culture. For years, an unconnected squad of literary detectives, anthropologists, scientists, and historians has been picking off the frauds and their enablers one by one. Taken together, the work of these critics is devastating. Jack Cashill's Hoodwinked synthesizes their dogged research and reveals the depth and breadth of the corruption at the very foundation of contemporary intellectual culture. Here is the final chapter:

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0120.html
 

Leebal

King Charming
Nov 10, 2005
430
13
38
Florida
✟636.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Marital Status
Private
I understand that many cultures are thinking wrong and given a false impression of American society. One issue here that they do put in conflict is planned parenthood vs. abortion. The book HOODWINKED talks about how many people in the past have used lies to make America seem corrupt to other nations and countries.

The thing I do not understand:scratch: is where is this coming to? If you would please, Voegelin, give more information, we can discuss more of this interesting topic. Thanks, and god bless!:wave: :thumbsup:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Voegelin
Upvote 0

Ledifni

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2004
3,464
199
44
✟4,590.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Voegelin said:
JACK CASHILL
catholiceducation.org

For a century, "progressive" writers and filmmakers have been using falsehood and fraud as primary weapons in their assault on traditional American culture. For years, an unconnected squad of literary detectives, anthropologists, scientists, and historians has been picking off the frauds and their enablers one by one. Taken together, the work of these critics is devastating. Jack Cashill's Hoodwinked synthesizes their dogged research and reveals the depth and breadth of the corruption at the very foundation of contemporary intellectual culture. Here is the final chapter:

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0120.html

I'll grant you that Sanger was, in some ways, rather racist and bigoted. But the fact that you are blithely ignoring is that just about everybody in her day was a racist and bigot by our standards. Abraham Lincoln, though he freed the slaves, honestly believed that blacks were the inferior race and whites the superior.

Just as most Americans today are homophobic, most Americans then were racist. If there's anybody you don't like from the 19th and early 20th centuries, you can easily malign that person by accusing him/her of racism. For most such people, you'd be able to find solid evidence of racism. Likewise, in 30 or 40 years, we'll be able to malign anybody we don't like from the 19th or 20th century by accusing him or her of homophobia -- and we'll be able to find evidence of it.

If you seriously cared about accuracy, you would examine the ideas of Sanger's that we still use today. We've scrapped racist ideas, from Sanger and from countless other respected intellectuals from that time, as being based on bad science and bad sociology. But they had other ideas, valuable and useful ones. Those ideas are ones we still use today. But attacking modern contraceptive medicine on the basis that Sanger had some racist ideas is ridiculous; that's like saying that the Earth must really be the center of the universe because Copernicus believed the planets moved in perfect circles.
 
Upvote 0

FreezBee

Veteran
Nov 1, 2005
1,306
44
Southern Copenhagen
✟1,704.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Voegelin said:

Well after the quote you 've given the text continues:

Edmund Burke said:
"The greatest crimes do not arise from a want of feeling for others​
but from an over-sensibility for ourselves and an over-indulgence to our own desires."

If we should not have an over-indulgence to our own desires, what then? Do we e.g. get married out of respect to anybody else?

Basically, what Burke is saying is that if you do anything you're not commanded to do, then you commit a crime! The kind of society that Burke advocates is a tyranny, where all people do nothing but slave for someone above them, all the way up to the king, who slaves for God, whose representative the king is upon earth!

Such a society, when it looses its control over the population will experience excesses - the joys of a newly won freedom.

"When God is dead, the stars are dancing in heaven" is the title of a paper that I've written about Friedrich Nietszche's "Also sprach Zarathustra". But as with the mice dancing on the table, when the cat is out, the cat/God will return.

Conservatism for the sake of conservatism doesn't help, af if it did, we'd just have to go through the same again!


cheers

- FreezBee
 
Upvote 0

Voegelin

Reactionary
Aug 18, 2003
20,145
1,430
Connecticut
✟26,726.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Ledifni said:
I'll grant you that Sanger was, in some ways, rather racist and bigoted. But the fact that you are blithely ignoring is that just about everybody in her day was a racist and bigot by our standards.

No one in my family or in my community going back generations ever endorsed the eugenics program Sanger proposed. She was anathema to the New England families which supported the Underground Railroad. Few Americans did support her ideas. Not even in New Haven, Connecticut where the American Eugenics Society had its main office. Didn't see it among older people in Texas and the south when I moved there either. It was an elitist program centered at Harvard, Yale and the New York City media. The well respected (even today) financier Otto Herman Kahn and his wife--supporters of Mussolini--were major Sanger sponsors.

Fascist Germany also endorsed Sangers ideas. That is why the name of her organization was changed to Planned Parenthood (and why the American Eugenics Society name was dropped as well).

"Everybody did it" is not a valid excuse. If everybody did do it, Sanger's "Negro Project" would have resulted in few blacks alive in America today. It is revisionist history to claim the majority of Americans were bigots who supported Sanger-like programs before liberal civil rights workers arrived on the scene in the 1950s.

But there is much more in Cahill's book than Sanger and sex. Walter Duranty, Lillian Hellman, Herbert Matthews, Rigoberta Menchú, Michael Bellesiles and Alex Haley were total frauds as well as many others praised by leftist "intellectuals" and the liberal media.

Hoodwinked: How Intellectual Hucksters have Hijacked American Culture is a good read. Cahill doesn't attack liberalism itself. He gives liberals a lot of credit for exposing charlatans and the downright evil (see Orwell) within the left. Unfortunately not enough people paid attention to liberals who wanted to play it straight. The New York Times to this day hems and haws over Walter Duranty and refuses to return the Pulitzer Prize won by him.

I fear this will have to be revisited over and over as a glance at Amazon reviews and left wing web pages are frothy over this book. They can't refute what is written, they can't defend Alex Haley and others on the facts, so they attack those who point out the cons inflicted on the American public in the 20th century.

A review of the book is here:

http://www.cashill.com/hoodwinked.htm
 
Upvote 0

Phylogeny

Veteran
Dec 28, 2004
1,599
134
✟2,426.00
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
I believe much of Kinsey's work has been accepted by the science community, some parts of his data has been questioned for statistical and methodology but I think his work is still widely cited today.

Personally, I'm always suspicious when nonscientists try to refute science for political reasons (darwin, galileo, etc). I'd rather see papers published in mainstream science journals documenting data that proves their convictions, and/or a unified agreement within the science community regarding someone's theories before I'd believe/disbelieve it's validity.
 
Upvote 0

Ledifni

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2004
3,464
199
44
✟4,590.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Voegelin said:
No one in my family or in my community going back generations ever endorsed the eugenics program Sanger proposed.

Oh, but I'll bet you plenty of them hated blacks (or at least thought them inferior). Perhaps they didn't agree with Sanger's specific ideas, but your objection to Sanger's ideas didn't have anything to do with any of her ideas except her racism. As such, the fair comparison is between her racism (which resulted in a belief in some features of eugenics) and the racism of your ancestors (which, apparently, resulted in some other manifestation of racism, which is no more commendable than Sanger's manifestation).

Are you going to tell me that nobody in your family history was racist? Given the extremely common beliefs of the day, I'd be surprised if more than a small fraction of your relatives who lived around the Civil War actually believed that blacks were as human as whites. If you claim to the contrary, you've got some massive evidence you're going to need to compile, to support your assertion that your ancestors were all members of the small minority who didn't subscribe to some kind of racist idea(s).

On a similar note, did you know that Martin Luther preached that Jews should be robbed, slaughtered, and burned?
 
Upvote 0

Ledifni

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2004
3,464
199
44
✟4,590.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Voegelin said:
I didn't attack "modern contraceptive medicine". Neither does the book.

Yes it does. It specifically condemns Planned Parenthood, which is entirely based on modern contraceptive medicine. Whatever you might say about Sanger, I don't think you can assert that Planned Parenthood advocates eugenics. If you do make that assertion, then you've got a lot of work to do collecting evidence.
 
Upvote 0

Spinrad

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2005
4,021
245
59
✟35,370.00
Faith
Atheist
Politics
US-Others
Phylogeny said:
I believe much of Kinsey's work has been accepted by the science community, some parts of his data has been questioned for statistical and methodology but I think his work is still widely cited today.

Personally, I'm always suspicious when nonscientists try to refute science for political reasons (darwin, galileo, etc). I'd rather see papers published in mainstream science journals documenting data that proves their convictions, and/or a unified agreement within the science community regarding someone's theories before I'd believe/disbelieve it's validity.

Rather? That's pretty much the standard I hold any claim to.
 
Upvote 0

Voegelin

Reactionary
Aug 18, 2003
20,145
1,430
Connecticut
✟26,726.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Ledifni said:
Yes it does. It specifically condemns Planned Parenthood, which is entirely based on modern contraceptive medicine. Whatever you might say about Sanger, I don't think you can assert that Planned Parenthood advocates eugenics. If you do make that assertion, then you've got a lot of work to do collecting evidence.

No they don't advocate it. Not openly.

Btw..abortion isn't contraceptive medicine.
 
Upvote 0

Voegelin

Reactionary
Aug 18, 2003
20,145
1,430
Connecticut
✟26,726.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Bevlina said:
*Mod Note*
Returned to Forum with different Thread Title.

Thank you! My mistake for not making it clear in the intro what this thread was really all about. CatholicEducation.org was having a little fun with the title but, without my giving an account of the content of the excerpted chapter of "Hoodwinked", it appeared something very different was being said.

An anecdotal account on how fake research has an impact: Visited Samoa with a college class of over 200 half century after Margaret Mead was there gathering information for her book. We all read Mead's "Coming of Age in Samoa". Our teachers told us and we thought from our observations that Americans had wrecked the pristine society of which she had written. Believed that for decades and I assumed everyone else did too. Suspected perhaps she overstated her case but never thought she was the complete fraud she turned out to be. No real harm done but it is annoying to realize what you were taught and what you believed were lies.

Mead should have simply written a fictional account of Samoa. Somerset Maughan did. "Rain" was set in Pago Pago. While visiting, we all headed right to a bar thought to be in that short story. Nice memories of that. Not so good of Mead's work.

Same with Alex Haley (who is also mentioned in "Hoodwinked"). "Roots" was a good read. The miniseries was great. Haley could have written a novel and done just as well. He didn't have to plagarize from a fiction writer and con the entire country.
 
Upvote 0

Voegelin

Reactionary
Aug 18, 2003
20,145
1,430
Connecticut
✟26,726.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
FreezBee said:
The kind of society that Burke advocates is a tyranny, where all people do nothing but slave for someone above them, all the way up to the king, who slaves for God, whose representative the king is upon earth!

Edmund Burke? The abolitionist? The anti-Jacobin? The " great defender of American, Irish and Indian rights"?

He fought tyranny.
 
Upvote 0

gladiatrix

Card-carrying EAC member
Sep 10, 2002
1,676
371
Florida
Visit site
✟35,897.00
Faith
Atheist
PART 1

I see that you perfer to slander Margaret Sanger with this old anti-choice lie (repeating the misrepresentations of what others say she said and did as opposed to what she actually said and did). Here is what she actually said (and in some cases actually did NOT say)....

FROM Margaret Sanger/PPP
Published Statements That Distort or Misquote Margaret Sanger

Through the years, a number of alleged Sanger quotations, or allegations about her, have surfaced with regularity in anti-family planning publications. The following are samples of especially pernicious distortions, misattributions, or outright lies that Margaret Sanger's enemies continue to circulate.

"More children from the fit, less from the unfit — that is the chief issue in birth control."
A quotation falsely attributed to Margaret Sanger, this statement was made by the editors of American Medicine in a review of an article by Sanger. The editorial from which this appeared, as well as Sanger's article, "Why Not Birth Control Clinics in America?" (1919b), were reprinted side-by-side in the May 1919 Birth Control Review.

"The mass of ignorant Negroes still breed carelessly and disastrously, so that the increase among Negroes, even more than the increase among whites, is from that portion of the population least intelligent and fit, and least able to rear their children properly."
Another quotation falsely attributed to Margaret Sanger, this was actually written for the June 1932 issue of The Birth Control Review by W.E.B. DuBois, founder of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP). Taken out of the context of his discussion about the effects of birth control on the balance between quality-of-life considerations and race-survival issues for African-Americans, Dubois' language seems insensitive by today's standards.

"Blacks, soldiers, and Jews are a menace to the race."
This fabricated quotation, falsely attributed to Sanger, was concocted in the late 1980s. The alleged source is the April 1933 Birth Control Review (Sanger ceased editing the Review in 1929). That issue contains no article or letter by Sanger.

"To create a race of thoroughbreds. . ."
This remark, again attributed originally to Sanger, was made by Dr. Edward A. Kempf and has been cited out of context and with distorted meaning. Dr. Kempf, a progressive physician, was actually arguing for state endowment of maternal and infant care clinics. In her book The Pivot of Civilization, Sanger quoted Dr. Kempf's argument about how environment may improve human excellence:

Society must make life worth the living and the refining for the individual by conditioning him to love and to seek the love-object in a manner that reflects a constructive effect upon his fellow-men and by giving him suitable opportunities. The virility of the automatic apparatus is destroyed by excessive gormandizing or hunger, by excessive wealth or poverty, by excessive work or idleness, by sexual abuse or intolerant prudishness. The noblest and most difficult art of all is the raising of human thoroughbreds (1969).

It was in this spirit that Sanger used the phrase, "Birth Control: To Create a Race of Thoroughbreds," as a banner on the November 1921 issue of the Birth Control Review. (Differing slogans on the theme of voluntary family planning sometimes appeared under the title of The Review, e.g., "Dedicated to the Cause of Voluntary Motherhood," January 1928.)

"The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."
This statement is taken out of context from Margaret Sanger's Woman and the New Race (1920). Sanger was making an ironic comment — not a prescriptive one — about the horrifying rate of infant mortality among large families of early 20th-century urban America. The statement, as grim as the conditions that prompted Sanger to make it, accompanied this chart, illustrating the infant death rate in 1920:

Deaths During First Year
1st born children 23%
2nd born children 20%
3rd born children 21%
4th born children 23%
5th born children 26%
6th born children 29%
7th born children 31%
8th born children 33%
9th born children 35%
10th born children 41%
11th born children 51%
12th born children 60%

"We do not want word to get out that we want to exterminate the Negro population."
Sanger was aware of African-American concerns, passionately argued by Marcus Garvey in the 1920s, that birth control was a threat to the survival of the black race. This statement, which acknowledges those fears, is taken from a letter to Clarence J. Gamble, M.D., a champion of the birth control movement. In that letter, Sanger describes her strategy to allay such apprehensions. A larger portion of the letter makes Sanger's meaning clear:

It seems to me from my experience . . . in North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, and Texas, that while the colored Negroes have great respect for white doctors, they can get closer to their own members and more or less lay their cards on the table. . . . They do not do this with the white people, and if we can train the Negro doctor at the clinic, he can go among them with enthusiasm and with knowledge, which, I believe, will have far-reaching results. . . . His work, in my opinion, should be entirely with the Negro profession and the nurses, hospital, social workers, as well as the County's white doctors. His success will depend upon his personality and his training by us. The minister's work is also important, and also he should be trained, perhaps by the Federation, as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs (1939).

"As early as 1914 Margaret Sanger was promoting abortion, not for white middle-class women, but against 'inferior races' — black people, poor people, Slavs, Latins, and Hebrews were 'human weeds'."
This allegation about Margaret Sanger appears in an anonymous flyer, "Facts About Planned Parenthood," that is circulated by anti-family planning activists. Margaret Sanger, who passionately believed in a woman's right to control her body, never "promoted" abortion because it was illegal and dangerous throughout her lifetime. She urged women to use contraceptives so that they would not be at risk for the dangers of illegal, back-alley abortion. Sanger never described any ethnic community as an 'inferior race' or as 'human weeds.' In her lifetime, Sanger won the respect of international figures of all races, including the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.; Mahatma Gandhi; Shidzue Kato, the foremost family planning advocate in Japan; and Lady Dhanvanthi Rama Rau of India — all of whom were sensitive to issues of race.

"The Rising Tide of Color Against White World Supremacy"
This is the title of a book falsely attributed to Sanger. It was written by Lothrop Stoddard and reviewed by Havelock Ellis in the October 1920 issue of The Birth Control Review. Its general topic, the international politics of race relations in the first decades of the century, is one in which Sanger was not involved. Her interest, insofar as she allowed a review of Stoddard's book to be published in The Birth Control Review, was in the overall health and quality of life of all races and not in tensions between them. Ellis's review was critical of the Stoddard book and of distinctions based on race or ethnicity alone.

For Further Reading
Chesler, Ellen. (1992). Woman of Valor: Margaret Sanger and the Birth Control Movement in America. New York: Simon & Schuster

The Margaret Sanger Papers Project

Valenza, Charles. (1985) "Was Margaret Sanger a Racist?" Family Planning Perspectives, 17(1) (January/February), 44-46.
----------End quote-------------

Consider that Martin Luther King supported Sanger's policies, a very STRANGE thing to do if she were really the arch racist/eugenist that this article paints her to be.

Martin Luther King on Sanger
-------

Hitler followed Sanger's "policies" (were the NAZIS "pro-choice/pro-birth control)?

What is hilarious about this comparison is that Nazis were dead set AGAINST abortion AND birth-control (just like most anti-choicers). They burned Margaret Sanger's books (very strange behavior on their part if she were really a Nazi sympathizer as most anti-choicers like to claim)

From Die Nacht der Scheiterhaufen: 10 May 1933--Greatness and Tragedy of the German Mind
In May, 1933, the Nazi party decreed that any book, "which acts subversively on our future or strikes at the root of German thought, the German home and the driving forces of our people..." was to be burnt. Students carrying banners toured the streets, rifling libraries, synagogues, and private homes. Works of philosophers, rationalists, poets, and internationally acclaimed authors, which had until then formed part of universal studies, were thrown into the flames. Some of the authors targeted in the book burning campaign are listed below.” (see PDF file, page 4 for list)[...]

The list of books burnt includes works by German and non-German Jews, by the American women’s rights activist Margaret Sanger and by one Magnus Hirschfeld for his “sympathetic studies of homosexuality”.

Nazis viewed women as having only one important function, that of perpetual baby factory (when they weren't worshipping at the shrine of Nazi male superiority in their spare time after changing nappies). To that end they outlawed both birth control and abortion which became a capital crimes (punishable by death):
From The Pink Triangle
The Nazis saw the two issues as one. Indeed, on October 26, 1934 a special department on abortion and homosexuality was set up in the Berlin Gestapo under SS Captain Joseph Meisinger. Two years later, on October 26, 1936, the Federal Security Office for Combatting Abortion and Homosexuality --- the infamous Subsection IIs of the Gestapo --- was organized by Heinrich Himmler in order to "purify the German people and regulate their sexual behavior by rooting out *sociosexual saboteurs*".
Dealing with sociosexual saboteurs (or homosexuality and abortion) the way other subsections dealt with political dissenters, freemasons, etc., IIs fell under control of the Gestapo's political department (or Department II).

From THIS SITE. If this one doesn't work on your server the same info can be found in the following SITE and is also quoted HERE


Just how women were treated in Nazi Germany can be seen in this excerpt from Nazi Attitudes Toward Women :

More here from Hitler's Minister of Propaganda German Women by Joseph Goebbels

The Nazis believed that a woman's place was in the home. The purpose of women was to produce babies, bring up children and to care for their home and husband. In the words of the famous Nazi slogan, women were to be confined to Kinder, Kirche, Kuche - children, church and kitchen. They were not allowed to take part in government, the law or education.

At the same time all married women doctors and civil servants and most married women teachers were sacked. They were banned from law courts as judges. lawyers and even as jurors. In Hitler's opinion, "women cannot think logically, or reason objectively, since they are ruled only by emotions". Married women were supposed to have children, not jobs. Childless women were called traitors and mothers of large families were given a medal. (NOTE: This award was satirically called the "Order of the Rabbit" behind Hitler's back)

Did Hitler ever advocate abortion? Yes, when it was part of a campaign to exterminate all the "subhumans" (the "untermenschen"--Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, "coloreds", etc.). However, the Nazis usually didn't bother with abortion, but either killed the reproductive adults (pregnant and otherwise) outright or just worked them to death. After all, it was so much cheaper and cost effective than trying to mount "population reductions" by sterilization and abortion.

Should you also visit the sites of white racists like Christian Identity, Stormfront, White Power World Wide you will find that one reason that they idealize Hitler is his attitude toward women, abortion, and birth control (they call him "real progressive in the true nature of women's rights"!).

Of course you may perfer to believe what others say she said as opposed to what she actually did say. The only people "hoodwinked" here are going to be those who believe the half-truths put out a one of her archenemies, the Catholic Church, whose policies on birth-control and abortion she has challenged oh, so successfully==> IOW "Hoodwinked" = "Sour Grapes"

But then that's exactly the kind of tactic I would exprect from an the organization that didn't stop it's prelates from lying to people about the effectiveness condoms in its campaign against birth control (and HERE)and protected a multitude of sexual predators in its ranks for decades. Why tell the whole truth when one can simply selectively "quote" an opponent (to which they have lost big time) in such a way as to paint the worst possible picture, eh!? If you can't beat 'em, quote-mine'em instead.
 
Upvote 0

gladiatrix

Card-carrying EAC member
Sep 10, 2002
1,676
371
Florida
Visit site
✟35,897.00
Faith
Atheist
PART 2

One other thing to notice about this article is that it takes cheap shots at every opportunity:

CHEAP SHOT #1: Hey lookey here, Sanger lied about her age (play the "you're so vain" card and also imply she's a liar who can't be trusted)

Although she would later fudge the date to 1883, Margaret Sanger was born in 1879 in Corning, New York, the sixth of what would prove to be eleven children.


CHEAP SHOT #2: Let's paint her father as a "villain" who programmed her (the silly dupe!) to despise Christian "truths":

Oddly, one atheist Web site insists that Sanger came from a "devoutly Catholic family," all the better, one presumes, to position her as someone who saw the light and abandoned her faith. But the site errs. The dominant figure in Sanger's childhood, her Irish immigrant father, was an outspoken socialist and agnostic who seems to have shamed his daughter out of any Christian affections by the time she was an adolescent.

Michael Higgins saw Christianity as a largely inoffensive pastime for the weak-minded. As a means of reform, he much preferred politics to religion. "In fact," writes Sanger of her father, "he took up Socialism because he believed it put Christian philosophy into practice, and to me its ideals still come nearest to carrying out what Christianity was supposed to do."

Never one for subtlety, Sanger adopted the altogether revealing slogan: "No Gods. No Masters." In the first issue, the increasingly radical Sanger argued that women had a duty "to look the world in the eyes; to have an idea; to speak and act in defiance of convention."


CHEAP SHOT #3: Let's tar-brush her as a predatory opportunist who didn't love anyone but only "used" them instead:

After an indifferent year as a schoolteacher and a sojourn spent caring for her dying mother, Sanger tried her hand at nursing school. It was there that her fortunes changed. That change had less to do with her exposure to health care than to a certain wealthy architect. Small, lithe, and highly attractive, Margaret Higgins caught the eye of Bill Sanger. The first of many useful men in her life, Sanger wooed her hard, wed her, and opened her eyes to the world.

When first married, Sanger contented herself with the simple delights of bourgeois motherhood. She had three children in rapid succession "and wanted at least four more as quickly as my health would permit." Her health, however, did not oblige. The birth of her third child caused complications that led her to stop at three. It probably didn't matter. She was already losing interest in homemaking, and a new class of prophets was luring her to the world beyond her home.

"A religion without a name was spreading over the country," Sanger enthuses. "The converts were liberals, socialists, anarchists, revolutionists of all shades." Now living in New York in these heady days before World War I, Sanger wanted part of the action. Like her new radical friends, she had thrown over her own personal ancien regime and was eager to embrace something new. "Each believed he had a key to the gates of heaven," she writes of her fellow radicals. "Each was trying to convert the others."
. . . .
No doubt, her advocacy for women's rights was deeply felt and genuine. After a trip to assess attitudes in Europe — more enlightened than those in America, but of course — Sanger returned to New York and in 1914 launched her own publication. She called it Woman Rebel. Never one for subtlety, Sanger adopted the altogether revealing slogan: "No Gods. No Masters." In the first issue, the increasingly radical Sanger argued that women had a duty "to look the world in the eyes; to have an idea; to speak and act in defiance of convention." Sanger did just that. Her attempt to preach the gospel of women's rights led to some inspired battles with the protectors of tradition and more than a few arrest warrants along the way.

Notice the harrumphing about the fact that Sanger actually had the "gall" to speak her mind ("Never one for subtlety, Sanger adopted the altogether revealing slogan: "No Gods. No Masters.") and actually thought she was more than just a house-bound bipedal uterus worshipping at the shrine of "divinely-ordained" patriarchal authority...what nerve! [/sarcasm]

Like I said, your article is better titled "Sour Grapes" (a quote-mine based diatribe against an enemy to which the "protectors of tradition" lost big time). IOW, exactly the kind of squealing one would expect from a very sore loser.
 
Upvote 0

Voegelin

Reactionary
Aug 18, 2003
20,145
1,430
Connecticut
✟26,726.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
gladiatrix said:
Notice the harrumphing about the fact that Sanger actually had the "gall" to speak her mind ("Never one for subtlety, Sanger adopted the altogether revealing slogan: "No Gods. No Masters.")

Clearly the criticism is not that Sanger spoke "her mind". Everyone speaks their mind.

It is what Sanger preached that many found and find objectionable. And what Planned Parenthood has taken great pains to obscure.

Like I said, your article is better titled "Sour Grapes"

It is not mine and it is not an article. It one chapter from the book, Hoodwinked: How Intellectual Hucksters have Hijacked American Culture. Sanger is just one Cahill describes as a huckster. Notice he does not call her a fraud.

Alex Haley, Walter Duranty, Herbert Matthews, Michael Bellesiles and Rigoberta Menchú he does call frauds. Their work, Cahill writes, has been proven to be false and/or plagiarized
 
Upvote 0

gladiatrix

Card-carrying EAC member
Sep 10, 2002
1,676
371
Florida
Visit site
✟35,897.00
Faith
Atheist
Voegelin said:
gladiatrix said:
Notice the harrumphing about the fact that Sanger actually had the "gall" to speak her mind ("Never one for subtlety, Sanger adopted the altogether revealing slogan: "No Gods. No Masters.")
Clearly the criticism is not that Sanger spoke "her mind". Everyone speaks their mind.
But what was on her mind (after one sorts out the half-truths and lies from your "chapter") people found "objectionable" and they tried to have her censored and jailed for it. It certainly looks like your "chapter" is criticizing her for speaking her mind to me (speaking her mind is "objectionable").
Voegelin said:
It is what Sanger preached that many found and find objectionable. And what Planned Parenthood has taken great pains to obscure.
Obsure what? The material your "chapter" offers is the usual anti-choicer mixture of misrepresentation, lies, and cheap shots (care to respond to any of my actual arguments on that account?) against an opponent who bested them at every turn.
Voegelin said:
gladiatrix said:
Like I said, your article is better titled "Sour Grapes"
It is not mine and it is not an article. It one chapter from the book, Hoodwinked: How Intellectual Hucksters have Hijacked American Culture.
Big deal...what you posted is mostly the usual antichoice misinformation about Sanger. Where it comes from and in what form is irrelevant.

Voegelin said:
Sanger is just one Cahill describes as a huckster. Notice he does not call her a fraud.
Since he implied she was a liar, vain (lied about her age!), a user, a racist (the usual antichoicer clap-trap), the fact that he doesn't outright call her a "fraud" (just a huckster) is a distinction without a difference (especially when one considers the catch-word "hoodwinked" in the title). One definiton of a huckster:

huckster
n 1: a seller of shoddy goods [syn: cheap-jack]2: a person who writes radio or tv advertisements
v 1: sell or offer for sale from place to place [syn: peddle, monger, hawk, vend, pitch]
2: wrangle (over a price, terms of an agreement, etc.); "Let's not haggle over a few dollars" [syn: haggle, higgle, chaffer]

Now the word "Hoodwinked" in the title implies that Sanger the huckster is a "sell of shoddy goods" in his/your opinion ("what Sanger preached that many found and find objectionable"). What would that make someone other than a "fraud" (a rose by any other name, so to speak). Like I said, a distinction WITHOUT a difference.
 
Upvote 0