Homosexuality

[mottec]

Hi

What is the church contemporary view on homosexual people? I am now talking about those who seem to be unable to change even if they wanted to. That is people born with some inclination towards the same sex.

If it is not a choice, is it then okay with the church? Celibacy/ non celibate.

Thx

Mottec

 

[Jesse2014]

I am a non-practicing homosexual. So I am going to tell my experience.

Christian people are very tolarent. They may even praise me for my restraint. But a lot of them are still uncomfortable. When I use to go to church, they would be very friendly: they shook my hand, called me brother, some would give me hugs, they minister to me, prayed for me. But still I wasn't treated the same.

I did not get invited to Christmas dinner. Yet, everyone else were friends outside of church. I didn't get invited to hang out with the boys overnight, except I did go to a bond fire. After church service, I basically was left alone. They would be standing around talking, making plans to hang out that week. I was barely apart of that. The pastor would invite me when the whole church was invited, which was nice. But no one individually would invite me.

This is understandable. Homosexuality is unnatural and sinful according to scriptures. And people who are barely around that are going to be uncomfortable around those who have the tendency. So I accept their uncomfortableness. But it still hurts of being accepted, but with a certain amount of reservation.

But the reason why I can understand is because I know if I meant someone who was gangster looking or a tattoed biker dude, I would be reserved. It would make me uncomfortable.

So in conclusion. Christians will be friendly and loving. But they would never offer me friendship outside the church.

 

[Albion]

Hi

What is the church contemporary view on homosexual people? I am now talking about those who seem to be unable to change even if they wanted to. That is people born with some inclination towards the same sex.

If it is not a choice, is it then okay with the church? Celibacy/ non celibate.

Thx

Mottec

By and large, it's the case that hardly any church is actually closed to homosexuals, but most of them still consider homosexual relations to be sinful, just as they understand unmarried heterosexual sex. Of course, there are s few denominations that openly approve of whatever the homosexual lobby wants.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

This thread looks like a booby trap.

 

[stevenfrancis]

Hi

What is the church contemporary view on homosexual people? I am now talking about those who seem to be unable to change even if they wanted to. That is people born with some inclination towards the same sex.

If it is not a choice, is it then okay with the church? Celibacy/ non celibate.

Thx

Mottec

All persons are called to chastity, regardless of born orientation. It is the call of Christ. For some this constitutes a very real challenge. The state, and the fallen away churches do no favors for anyone when they legislate or preach otherwise. The marital embrace, (sexual union), is natural, complimentary and God given to one man and one woman for procreation and marital unity. No other form of sexual union is licit and fully moral. That has always been, since Adam and Eve, and will still be that way on the last day when Jesus comes to judge the living and the dead, and establish the new Heavens and new Earth.

All that can change is cultures, governments, and churches. No amendment will be forthcoming from God. So, whenever a child of God, (who are all deserving of love and respect with the dignity of the human person), transgresses sexual morality, (one of only a few simple laws imposed even on the the gentiles), it wounds our relationship with God, and must be repented of. With heartfelt repentance in the times when we fall, and with prayer, and God's sanctifying grace, our crosses become should all become easier to bear. All that is asked of us, is that we never cease trying to be perfect, as our father in heaven is perfect, and therefore not giving in to the whims of societies, cultures, and even some churches who come and go, and pass away. God is eternal, and in his image we were given eternal souls for torment or peace as we decide with our free will.

This is sexual immorality -
The first thing to note is that it's not all, or even mostly, about those inclined to same sex attraction:

Adultery (Sexual union by people where one or more persons are married, but not to each other)

Sodomy and other homosexual acts (Sexual union by persons of the same sex)

Fornication - (Sexual union between persons not married to each other - can be in conjunction with other sexual immorality. All sexual union outside of a marriage between one man and one woman falls into this, the most frequented sexual sin by all persons, regardless of inclinations.)

Masturbation - Sexual acts with one's self, regardless of inclinations or attractions. Divorced from both the unitive and prcreative aspects of the marital embrace.

There are many others, that are less common, but don't really need their own names other than to identify them in legal proceedings. The rest all fall under the ones above in some way or another. All of them would fall under fornication at a minimum. We'll just leave it at that.

Is it harder for an unmarried heterosexual man in his youthful prime to remain chaste than for a homosexually inclined man in his youthful prime to remain chaste? Does one of them have a more painful cross to bear? Do either of them even care about chastity? These questions come down to the individual. Not the Church. All the church has the duty to tell you is that it IS a cross to bear, and see what they can do to help you bear it, IF you ask them. The church is wrong when it conflicts with the teachings of God, and goes on to encourage or foster individual immorality, saying that one group or another need not carry a cross at all!! That's what we need to be watchful about.

The culture complains when anyone tells it that there is sin. You know who doesn't tell you there is sin? Satan....the liar and murderer from the beginning. So if the church, any church begins relaxing it's teachings on sin, and it's effects on our relationship with God, then they are doing a disservice to their adherents, and can go so far as to end up in the roll of displaying the face of the tempter/liar rather than the presence of God to the flock.

No matter your denomination, church affiliation etc....if it's Christian, we should all be wary of churches who remove the cross by either doctrine or action, or both.

 

[hedrick]

The first two responses point out the most churches will accept celibate homosexuals. As far as those who actually have sexual relations, mainline churches and some of the more liberal evangelical or non-denominational churches allow that as well, but that's a fairly small fraction of churches in the US. Maybe 20%. (Note that CF rules don't permit me to answer the obvious question: how can Christians possibly think that's OK?) Views of individual Christians, as opposed to church policies, are more accepting. I believe support among self-identified Christians is approaching 50%.

 

[stevenfrancis]

I am a non-practicing homosexual. So I am going to tell my experience.

Christian people are very tolarent. They may even praise me for my restraint. But a lot of them are still uncomfortable. When I use to go to church, they would be very friendly: they shook my hand, called me brother, some would give me hugs, they minister to me, prayed for me. But still I wasn't treated the same.

I did not get invited to Christmas dinner. Yet, everyone else were friends outside of church. I didn't get invited to hang out with the boys overnight, except I did go to a bond fire. After church service, I basically was left alone. They would be standing around talking, making plans to hang out that week. I was barely apart of that. The pastor would invite me when the whole church was invited, which was nice. But no one individually would invite me.

This is understandable. Homosexuality is unnatural and sinful according to scriptures. And people who are barely around that are going to be uncomfortable around those who have the tendency. So I accept their uncomfortableness. But it still hurts of being accepted, but with a certain amount of reservation.

But the reason why I can understand is because I know if I meant someone who was gangster looking or a tattoed biker dude, I would be reserved. It would make me uncomfortable.

So in conclusion. Christians will be friendly and loving. But they would never offer me friendship outside the church.

You say you're not "practicing", so that means you accept that SSA IS a struggle, and one that needs attention if one is Christian. Is that a fair statment? That is, you accept the attraction as temptation to avoid and a cross to bear, and you bear it with dignity. I can't understand why your Christians brothers and sisters wouldn't go out of their way to show you friendship, invite you to dinner, etc. You are the ideal of what the Christian is asking for from the same sex attracted. One who understands that it need not be acted upon. That there is another way. Oh that heterosexual fornicators and adulterers had the same courage and conviction. To be not "practicing" fornicators and adulterers, and be honest about their own struggles. You'd find you were in wider company than you probably realize. It's my prayer that we all band together as sinners who are sick, and in need of God's love as the only medicine. And God said, love on another.

There's a short film I saw recently that was very moving, and has really helped me to appreciate the struggle, and to see what it looks like in the individual.

https://everlastinghills.org/movie/

It's really worth watching for anyone. Regardless of ones ideas about homosexuality, SSA etc.

God bless you,

Steve

 

[GrimKingGrim]

I am a non-practicing homosexual. So I am going to tell my experience.

Christian people are very tolarent. They may even praise me for my restraint. But a lot of them are still uncomfortable. When I use to go to church, they would be very friendly: they shook my hand, called me brother, some would give me hugs, they minister to me, prayed for me. But still I wasn't treated the same.

I did not get invited to Christmas dinner. Yet, everyone else were friends outside of church. I didn't get invited to hang out with the boys overnight, except I did go to a bond fire. After church service, I basically was left alone. They would be standing around talking, making plans to hang out that week. I was barely apart of that. The pastor would invite me when the whole church was invited, which was nice. But no one individually would invite me.

This is understandable. Homosexuality is unnatural and sinful according to scriptures. And people who are barely around that are going to be uncomfortable around those who have the tendency. So I accept their uncomfortableness. But it still hurts of being accepted, but with a certain amount of reservation.

But the reason why I can understand is because I know if I meant someone who was gangster looking or a tattoed biker dude, I would be reserved. It would make me uncomfortable.

So in conclusion. Christians will be friendly and loving. But they would never offer me friendship outside the church.

So much... that I cannot say.

So I'll just put an emote :o

 

[Meowzltov]

Jesse, let me say first of all that I feel very sad that you are not included in social events. (Neither am I, but I think it has more to do with my introversion.)

No one can help who they are attracted to, so homosexual orientation is no sin. Personally, I'm bisexual and I don't choose that either. Temptation is not a sin.

The Catholic church does consider homosexuality intrinsically disordered, but hey, as a bipolar individual, I'm used to dealing with that stigma--I wanted to become a nun but cannot because my mental health issues, even though they are under control, preclude me. If I can live with the stigma, so can a gay person.

ACTIONS are an entirely different matter. All sex outside of marriage is a sin. Same sex sex, adultery, fornication, masturbation, porn... it is all forbidden. If a gay person acts on their inclination, they are sinning. If they are celibate, they are not. I have never had a relationship with a girl. Furthermore, I am unmarried and have been celibate for 15 years. If I can do it, so can they.

 

[Interplanner]

How many people do I need to tell I'm struggling with a temptation? Why not just get private help to get over it and not bother anyone?

One of the fundamental personal realities of the Christian faith is that we are dead to sin. We get this from having the debt of sin paid on our behalf, but that in turns helps us quash interest in sin. That's why Paul tells 'struggling' people to get married (to the opposite gender) and that those people who do so have not sinned, even though a more constructive ideal is to stay single (more constructive for ministry), in I Cor 5-7.

This fundamental feature of Christian existence (about the debt and power of sin) is catpured in the lyrics of this hymn:
"He breaks the power of canceled sin"
And in "Rock of Ages":
"Be of sin the double cure, cleanse me from its guilt and power."

If we aren't getting the hi-def picture of sin as a debt that was dealt with objectively by the Gospel event of Christ, it is because our (well-meaning) pastors are trying to say too much about the power of sin and techniques to manage it. They shouldn't. "The Gospel is the power of God for salvation." --Rom. 1. That's because the Gospel is about debt and justification. That news teaches the conscience quietly that God seriously abhors sin, and out of honor to Christ we become clean from it.

That also means we have to believe that we are really guilty of those sins, that all that is His call.

 

[Interplanner]

Open Heart,
that is unbearable advice. I really don't now what a person is supposed to do with it. Paul said in I Cor 5-7 (the longest continuous NT treatment of sexual questions) that if a person can be single, great, but a person who decides to marry the other gender is not sinning to 'manage' temptation that way.

Do you not know the command about coveting? That's also when you don't take action. But it is sin; and that's not a NT mindset saying so; that's the 10 Commands. The NT is even more pointed about the thoughts.

 

[Jesse2014]

You say you're not "practicing", so that means you accept that SSA IS a struggle, and one that needs attention if one is Christian. Is that a fair statment? That is, you accept the attraction as temptation to avoid and a cross to bear, and you bear it with dignity. I can't understand why your Christians brothers and sisters wouldn't go out of their way to show you friendship, invite you to dinner, etc. You are the ideal of what the Christian is asking for from the same sex attracted. One who understands that it need not be acted upon. That there is another way. Oh that heterosexual fornicators and adulterers had the same courage and conviction. To be not "practicing" fornicators and adulterers, and be honest about their own struggles. You'd find you were in wider company than you probably realize. It's my prayer that we all band together as sinners who are sick, and in need of God's love as the only medicine. And God said, love on another.

There's a short film I saw recently that was very moving, and has really helped me to appreciate the struggle, and to see what it looks like in the individual.

https://everlastinghills.org/movie/

It's really worth watching for anyone. Regardless of ones ideas about homosexuality, SSA etc.

God bless you,

Steve

Thank you and God bless you, too.

Thank you.

 

[mottec]

Thx so much for the answers. Especially to Jesse2014, as we share this struggle.

 

[Jesse2014]

So much... that I cannot say.

So I'll just put an emote :o

Hi, Grim.

 

[Jesse2014]

Jesse, let me say first of all that I feel very sad that you are not included in social events. (Neither am I, but I think it has more to do with my introversion.)

No one can help who they are attracted to, so homosexual orientation is no sin. Personally, I'm bisexual and I don't choose that either. Temptation is not a sin.

The Catholic church does consider homosexuality intrinsically disordered, but hey, as a bipolar individual, I'm used to dealing with that stigma--I wanted to become a nun but cannot because my mental health issues, even though they are under control, preclude me. If I can live with the stigma, so can a gay person.

ACTIONS are an entirely different matter. All sex outside of marriage is a sin. Same sex sex, adultery, fornication, masturbation, porn... it is all forbidden. If a gay person acts on their inclination, they are sinning. If they are celibate, they are not. I have never had a relationship with a girl. Furthermore, I am unmarried and have been celibate for 15 years. If I can do it, so can they.

Hi. It's sad. But I am actually OK.

LOL I get to sleep in on Sundays now. There are many advantages of not being liked. So I am actually OK. I am learning happiness in my solitude life.

 

[Jesse2014]

Thx so much for the answers. Especially to Jesse2014, as we share this struggle.

I am sorry you are struggling as well.

But I left the church. I don't if that's godly advice though.

God bless you.

 

[KitKatMatt]

This thread looks like a booby trap.

I agree.

 

[FireDragon76]

Denominations that actually approve of homosexual behavior, officially? Very few. Not even Episcopalians: they have some alternative rites for blessing same-sex couples but the rubrics still define marriage as between a man and a woman, and some clergy still consider homosexual behavior sinful. Basically, ELCA Lutherans, Presbyterians, and Episcopalians all agree to disagree on this issue, all the while allowing clergy to performing blessing as their conscience allows.

Most Christian denominations still consider homosexual behavior sinful, officially or not.

Hedrick is right though, a large percentage of Christian laity and clergy don't see it as sinful or they see it as excusible. But the denominations often come out with statements or canons that are against it.

 

[LWolfe]

I am a non-practicing homosexual. So I am going to tell my experience.

Christian people are very tolarent. They may even praise me for my restraint. But a lot of them are still uncomfortable. When I use to go to church, they would be very friendly: they shook my hand, called me brother, some would give me hugs, they minister to me, prayed for me. But still I wasn't treated the same.

I did not get invited to Christmas dinner. Yet, everyone else were friends outside of church. I didn't get invited to hang out with the boys overnight, except I did go to a bond fire. After church service, I basically was left alone. They would be standing around talking, making plans to hang out that week. I was barely apart of that. The pastor would invite me when the whole church was invited, which was nice. But no one individually would invite me.

This is understandable. Homosexuality is unnatural and sinful according to scriptures. And people who are barely around that are going to be uncomfortable around those who have the tendency. So I accept their uncomfortableness. But it still hurts of being accepted, but with a certain amount of reservation.

But the reason why I can understand is because I know if I meant someone who was gangster looking or a tattoed biker dude, I would be reserved. It would make me uncomfortable.

So in conclusion. Christians will be friendly and loving. But they would never offer me friendship outside the church.

This makes me angry. There's no excuse for people at church to treat someone like that. Church is the last place where someone should be left out or ignored. We are all sinners, and that's what leads us to Christ...so what's with the snobby attitudes? If you left that church, I don't blame you.

 

[Jesse2014]

Open Heart,
that is unbearable advice. I really don't now what a person is supposed to do with it. Paul said in I Cor 5-7 (the longest continuous NT treatment of sexual questions) that if a person can be single, great, but a person who decides to marry the other gender is not sinning to 'manage' temptation that way.

Do you not know the command about coveting? That's also when you don't take action. But it is sin; and that's not a NT mindset saying so; that's the 10 Commands. The NT is even more pointed about the thoughts.

I was going to write something that was going to start an unfruitful argument. But all I am going to do is respectfully disagree with you. I agree that coveting is wrong.

If me having gay desires is consider coveting, then I just have to pray for God's mercy.