Homosexuality

[GenetoJean]

I disagree, we are to love all people, that includes gay people. Turning them away is not loving them, Jesus taught us to love our enemies, not reject them. I can admittedly disagree with a persons opinion or lifestyle, but still love them, and care about their well being. Accepting a person as they are is not endorsing their behavior, none of us are sinless and remember Jesus reached out to the sinners.

I agree with you overall, however, if people are in a church to stir up trouble, then what do you do?

 

[Hentenza]

It stops being private when it does business with the public. When it does so, it comes under the commerce section of the US Constitution and can be regulated.

No. The states regulate this type of access and many states do not have these types of laws, such as Texas for example.

 

[RBPerry]

The Supreme Court disagrees. People's rights are taken away when they are discriminated against in public businesses.

I have lost all respect for the Supreme Court, there job is to properly interpret constitutional issues, not rewrite it. When the Christians in America have finally had enough of the liberals in this country maybe they will vote all the liberal legislators out, but only time will tell.

 

[RBPerry]

I agree with you overall, however, if people are in a church to stir up trouble, then what do you do?

Love them. Example, a young man was dying of aids, had rejected all attempts of witnessing to him. His family and friends had abandoned him. Several from the church began bringing him meals, taking him to doctors appointments, and helping where they could. Before he died he accepted Christ, not because of the witnessing, but because of the love he received from that group of Christians. Haven't we ever considered the problem people in our lives may have been put there to see if we truly love as the Lord had commanded us to do.

 

[GenetoJean]

Love them. Example, a young man was dying of aids, had rejected all attempts of witnessing to him. His family and friends had abandoned him. Several from the church began bringing him meals, taking him to doctors appointments, and helping where they could. Before he died he accepted Christ, not because of the witnessing, but because of the love he received from that group of Christians. Haven't we ever considered the problem people in our lives may have been put there to see if we truly love as the Lord had commanded us to do.

Did he go into churches to stir up trouble and keep them from having their services?

 

[Loudmouth]

I have lost all respect for the Supreme Court, there job is to properly interpret constitutional issues, not rewrite it. When the Christians in America have finally had enough of the liberals in this country maybe they will vote all the liberal legislators out, but only time will tell.

You have lost all respect for the US Constitution, human rights, and equal treatment.

 

[Loudmouth]

No. The states regulate this type of access and many states do not have these types of laws, such as Texas for example.

You are correct that many states do not currently protect gays from discrimination.

 

[Hentenza]

You are correct that many states do not currently protect gays from discrimination.

Many states protect business owners and their rights to choose their clientele. BTW- There are many bakers that would not bake a cake for a satanic cult either but I guess the gays ought to have more rights than other Americans.

 

[GenetoJean]

Many states protect business owners and their rights to choose their clientele. BTW- There are many bakers that would not bake a cake for a satanic cult either but I guess the gays ought to have more rights than other Americans.

Actually, the Satanic Cult would be a religion, so they could sue on grounds of religious discrimination if they so choose. Of course they may be smart enough to not want a cake baked by someone who was forced to bake a cake for them.

 

[Hentenza]

Actually, the Satanic Cult would be a religion, so they could sue on grounds of religious discrimination if they so choose. Of course they may be smart enough to not want a cake baked by someone who was forced to bake a cake for them.

Hi Gene,

The point is that bakers, as well as other Americans who own their own business, can decide not to provide their services because of their own reasons. Some might be against the death penalty and someone wants them to bake a cake to celebrate an execution, or some might be against abortion and someone might ask them to bake a cake to celebrate their newly acquired "freedom" from pregnancy. The issue is much more complex than just a baker that refuses to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple. Individuals have rights also. You are correct that forcing someone to provide their services under duress is at best problematic.

 

[Loudmouth]

Many states protect business owners and their rights to choose their clientele.

Which states allow businesses to choose their clientele by race or religion?

There are many bakers that would not bake a cake for a satanic cult either but I guess the gays ought to have more rights than other Americans.

I would support the Satanic cult suing the baker as much as I would support christians who were discriminated against or gays. I wouldn't support bakers who refuse to bake cakes because it is a christian wedding.

I want gays to have the SAME rights as other Americans.

 

[Loudmouth]

Hi Gene,

The point is that bakers, as well as other Americans who own their own business, can decide not to provide their services because of their own reasons.

Bakers can not deny service to people based on race, no matter what the baker's beliefs are. What you say is flatly untrue. There are rules.

 

[Hentenza]

Which states allow businesses to choose their clientele by race or religion?

Which has nothing to do with the discussion. This is the problem with the emotional argument as put out by the LGBT. There is no comparison.

I would support the Satanic cult suing the baker as much as I would support christians who were discriminated against or gays. I wouldn't support bakers who refuse to bake cakes because it is a christian wedding.

I doubt it. The liberal media would not be behind it.

I want gays to have the SAME rights as other Americans.

No you don't. You want gays to have more rights than other Americans. The baker that refused to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple has rights also.

ETA: If people do not like the service at one establishment they are welcomed to go to another. Dragging people into court for such frivolous law suits is a waste of the tax payers money and the court's time.

 

[Loudmouth]

Which has nothing to do with the discussion.

It has EVERYTHING to do with this discussion. The government can tell businesses who they have to serve, contrary to claims made by people in this thread.

This is the problem with the emotional argument as put out by the LGBT. There is no comparison.

Why is there no comparison? Please explain.

No you don't. You want gays to have more rights than other Americans. The baker that refused to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple has rights also.

I would demand that gay bakers do not discriminate against anyone, even those that are part of religions they don't agree with. I am treating everyone the same.

I doubt it. The liberal media would not be behind it.

Some day you are going to have to start treating people like real people instead of dismissing them as "liberals".

ETA: If people do not like the service at one establishment they are welcomed to go to another. Dragging people into court for such frivolous law suits is a waste of the tax payers money and the court's time.

People said the same of segregation.

 

[Hentenza]

It has EVERYTHING to do with this discussion. The government can tell businesses who they have to serve, contrary to claims made by people in this thread.



Why is there no comparison? Please explain.



I would demand that gay bakers do not discriminate against anyone, even those that are part of religions they don't agree with. I am treating everyone the same.



Some day you are going to have to start treating people like real people instead of dismissing them as "liberals".



People said the same of segregation.

Dude, people have rights. I have the right to open a business catering to a particular cross section of Americans. These types of businesses are ALL over the American economic landscape. Individual persons have the right to open businesses that do not conflict with their beliefs or opinions. Individual persons have the right to their opinions and beliefs and they do not have to match yours or the LGTB camp.

The LGBT argument is a fallacious, emotionally laden argument which seeks to take away rights from individuals and, in this instance, business owners. I do treat people like real people; your camp is the one attempting to remove individual rights and bog down the courts with frivolous, economically damaging lawsuits. If people do not like a business then GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. That is your right as an American but don't tell individual Americans that their rights can be trampled over by folks with damaging, media sponsored agendas.

 

[New Legacy]

It has EVERYTHING to do with this discussion. The government can tell businesses who they have to serve, contrary to claims made by people in this thread.

Not a just government that respects a person's religious convictions. Forcing a person to participate in what they consider an immoral activity is one the worse thing's an unjust government can do.

If a group believes that churches are evil and refuses to cater to one, then I am 100% okay with that. I would never want to force someone to do something they believe is morally wrong.

 

[New Legacy]

Should churches be forced to 'marry' same sex people? Should churches be forced to ordained women if they do not believe in it?

The government has always been okay with people's personal religious beliefs. For many of us, participating in a homosexual marriage is morally wrong and we are being told to participate in it.

 

[GenetoJean]

Hi Gene,

The point is that bakers, as well as other Americans who own their own business, can decide not to provide their services because of their own reasons. Some might be against the death penalty and someone wants them to bake a cake to celebrate an execution, or some might be against abortion and someone might ask them to bake a cake to celebrate their newly acquired "freedom" from pregnancy. The issue is much more complex than just a baker that refuses to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple. Individuals have rights also. You are correct that forcing someone to provide their services under duress is at best problematic.

I am still trying to work out my stand on this subject. I have enough libertarian in me to believe people should have control over their business but also believe no one should be denied service because of who they are. The best compromise I can come up with is that while a person shouldnt be able to be forced to do something, a business would still have to provide the service. The way this would work out is, in the case of the baker, they would have to sub out baking the cake to another bakery and the extra cost can be worked into the bill. I am not proposing this because I know people more intelligent then me will pick it apart but it is the best I can come up with.

 

[GenetoJean]

Should churches be forced to 'marry' same sex people? Should churches be forced to ordained women if they do not believe in it?

The government has always been okay with people's personal religious beliefs. For many of us, participating in a homosexual marriage is morally wrong and we are being told to participate in it.

A church not having to do this is not a personal belief, it is a protection of a chuch.

 

[GenetoJean]

Which has nothing to do with the discussion. This is the problem with the emotional argument as put out by the LGBT. There is no comparison.



I doubt it. The liberal media would not be behind it.

No you don't. You want gays to have more rights than other Americans. The baker that refused to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple has rights also.

ETA: If people do not like the service at one establishment they are welcomed to go to another. Dragging people into court for such frivolous law suits is a waste of the tax payers money and the court's time.

The matter of LGBT rights being the same or not being the same as race is one of the major reasons the two sides will never agree. Those of us in the LGBT community know that this is as much a non-changeable part of us as race and we shouldnt be discriminated because of it.