Homosexuality

[Octorock]

If you have to change the way things have been for millennia (the beginning of time), then that should tell you how perverted your request is.

It doesn't at all, actually.

 

[David Brider]

the problem is many homosexuals do not keep it only in their bedroom. But bring it out in the open in the media, the streets, schools, parades, movies, commercials, magazines, goofy 'hate laws', and now unfortunately... politics and marriage. To the point of even invading the freedom of religion and enterprise.

None of the homosexual people I know say anything about their sex lives, even assuming they have sex lives. They're definitely not brining their sex lives out in the open in the many ways you suggest (you may be mistaking "being of a non-heteronormative sexual orientation" with "having an active sex life"?). Pressing for the right for same-gender marriage is not about sex lives, it's about the right to marry. It seems to be that the people who are most obsessed about homosexuals' sex lives are some (by no means all) Christians who just can't seem to stop discussing what they imagine gay people might be getting up to.

David.

 

[David Brider]

If you have to change the way things have been for millennia (the beginning of time), then that should tell you how perverted your request is.

I don't see it as perverted at all. Y'know, I'm lucky - as a bisexual man who fell in love with a woman, I didn't have any problem getting married. Gay men and women, and bisexual people who end up with same-gendered partners, don't have that option. And personally, I'd like them to have that option, and will be happy to do what I can to work for changes in the law in this country to enable them to do so, and to support the men and women who do so in other countries.

It's not about perversion. It's just about the right to get married to the person they fall in love with.

David.

 

[Octorock]

Slavery was a common practice for millennia before it was abolished in most nations. Was it a perversion to abolish slavery?

 

[Lively Stone]

I don't see it as perverted at all. Y'know, I'm lucky - as a bisexual man who fell in love with a woman, I didn't have any problem getting married. Gay men and women, and bisexual people who end up with same-gendered partners, don't have that option. And personally, I'd like them to have that option, and will be happy to do what I can to work for changes in the law in this country to enable them to do so, and to support the men and women who do so in other countries.

It's not about perversion. It's just about the right to get married to the person they fall in love with.

David.

What you'd like and what God wants are two very disparate things. Why would you join with the enemy and work against Him?

Yes, it is about perversion, and the slippery slope to Sodom and Gomorrah all over again.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 The Message
Don't become partners with those who reject God. How can you make a partnership out of right and wrong? That's not partnership; that's war. Is light best friends with dark? Does Christ go strolling with the Devil? Do trust and mistrust hold hands? Who would think of setting up pagan idols in God's holy Temple? But that is exactly what we are, each of us a temple in whom God lives. God himself put it this way:

"I'll live in them, move into them;
I'll be their God and they'll be my people.
So leave the corruption and compromise;
leave it for good," says God.
"Don't link up with those who will pollute you.
I want you all for myself.
I'll be a Father to you;
you'll be sons and daughters to me."
The Word of the Master, God.

 

[Lively Stone]

No, you said nothing about "for starters" - you simply said "Where in scripture does it say fornication is good? Because that is all that homosexuals do."

http://www.christianforums.com/t7470494-52/#post55320372

 

[Jase]

What you'd like and what God wants are two very disparate things. Why would you join with the enemy and work against Him?

Yes, it is about perversion, and the slippery slope to Sodom and Gomorrah all over again.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 The Message
Don't become partners with those who reject God. How can you make a partnership out of right and wrong? That's not partnership; that's war. Is light best friends with dark? Does Christ go strolling with the Devil? Do trust and mistrust hold hands? Who would think of setting up pagan idols in God's holy Temple? But that is exactly what we are, each of us a temple in whom God lives. God himself put it this way:

"I'll live in them, move into them;
I'll be their God and they'll be my people.
So leave the corruption and compromise;
leave it for good," says God.
"Don't link up with those who will pollute you.
I want you all for myself.
I'll be a Father to you;
you'll be sons and daughters to me."
The Word of the Master, God.

Once again, you're assuming that those who disagree with YOU are rejecting God.

 

[Avniel]

Once again, you're assuming that those who disagree with YOU are rejecting God.

Until you renounce sin then you are rejecting God, you said certain things in the OT were unjust....How can you even question God?..........but your a Christian?

So let me get this right, the Bible is wrong on certain things........but on the things the Bible(word of God BTW) is wrong on...............you have the answer............you somehow have the answer to the areas where the Bible is unjust and wrong? I pray you dont believe this.

 

[Jase]

Until you renounce sin then you are rejecting God, you said certain things in the OT were unjust....How can you even question God?..........but your a Christian?

Actually, I'm a Messianic Jew. Plenty of things in the OT were unjust, but I don't believe God actually commanded all of them. I think a lot of the OT is simply an ancient tribal people trying to explain their way of life, while using God as justification for their actions.

There is also nothing wrong with questioning God. He's a big boy, he can handle our problems with his actions.

So let me get this right, the Bible is wrong on certain things........but on the things the Bible(word of God BTW) is wrong on...............you have the answer............you somehow have the answer to the areas where the Bible is unjust and wrong? I pray you dont believe this.

Society has changed quite a bit. While murdering children, or female rape victims might have been appropriate behavior in the caveman days, they are not in a industrialized society. A lot of OT type behavior still takes place in this world in countries run by Islam like Iran and Saudi Arabia. And yet, us Americans tell them how barbaric burying and stoning women are, or beheading people for not covering themselves up enough. This is all Biblical morality at work. Do you approve of the actions of Islamic nations? Or do you believe that beheading a woman for not wearing a veil is barbaric, and does not align with democratic principles and morals?

The Bible is wrong on serveral issues - most notably science and modern day moral principles (at least the OT). If we followed OT behavior, which you seem to think we should, the US would be much more like Iran, which thank God is not possible with our Constitution in place. The day the US becomes a theocracy, is the day I move to Europe.

 

[Avniel]

Actually, I'm a Messianic Jew. Plenty of things in the OT were unjust, but I don't believe God actually commanded all of them. I think a lot of the OT is simply an ancient tribal people trying to explain their way of life, while using God as justification for their actions.

There is also nothing wrong with questioning God. He's a big boy, he can handle our problems with his actions.


Society has changed quite a bit. While murdering children, or female rape victims might have been appropriate behavior in the caveman days, they are not in a industrialized society. A lot of OT type behavior still takes place in this world in countries run by Islam like Iran and Saudi Arabia. And yet, us Americans tell them how barbaric burying and stoning women are, or beheading people for not covering themselves up enough. This is all Biblical morality at work. Do you approve of the actions of Islamic nations? Or do you believe that beheading a woman for not wearing a veil is barbaric, and does not align with democratic principles and morals?

The Bible is wrong on serveral issues - most notably science and modern day moral principles (at least the OT). If we followed OT behavior, which you seem to think we should, the US would be much more like Iran, which thank God is not possible with our Constitution in place. The day the US becomes a theocracy, is the day I move to Europe.

I dont believe that Americans have the right to tell other's how to run their countries. Democracy is not the only form of government that is working, as much as a government can work. In poli sci/pre-law we are taught that all politics is evil to some degree. Democracy has issues and problems just like theocracy does, the feeling that democracy is the only working government is a part of a being a nationalistic society. I can not judge another nations laws particularly because those nations are run through their Islamic faith which I disagree with to start with, I am already bias on them being unjust.

The reason we don't have to follow the OT laws as we did before is due to the fact that we have Jesus that died in the cross for our sins so that we could be forgiven. Currently we are working under mercy, that means we no longer have to stone and behead instead we can pray and be forgiven........But how can you ask to be forgiven if you dont believe in the word of God, or even that what your doing is a sin?

Everything in the OT was just and right, everything in the new testament is merciful and also just and right

 

[kirmac]

You cannot "believe in Christ" and reject the Bible at the same time. All of our understanding of the sin, falleness, redemption, the Cross and atonement comes from the Bible. If you disagree, you're really serving a god (notice the lower case g) of another religion.

 

[Jase]

But how can you ask to be forgiven if you dont believe in the word of God, or even that what your doing is a sin?

There is a difference between not believing, and not taking everything literally. I interpret the Bible differently than you. I also do not exalt it up the level of God, which I see far too often on these boards.

I didn't have a Bible when I first became Messianic, and I studied the Torah as a kid in Hebrew, not English. The Bible is not the end all, be all of God.

 

[Jase]

You cannot "believe in Christ" and reject the Bible at the same time. All of our understanding of the sin, falleness, redemption, the Cross and atonement comes from the Bible. If you disagree, you're really serving a god (notice the lower case g) of another religion.

There are plenty of people in this world who have never seen a Bible, and yet believe in Christ - so you are most certainly false. The Bible is not God. And there is a difference between outright rejecting the entire Bible, and not interpreting the entire thing literally, or not believing that the Protestant Bible is the exactly correct version.

 

[Lively Stone]

Once again, you're assuming that those who disagree with YOU are rejecting God.

Rejecting His cleanness, righteousness and purity for homosexual relationships is rejecting Him. It is not a question of agreeing with me or anyone---it is a question of being at enmity with God.

 

[Lively Stone]

The Bible is wrong on serveral issues - most notably science and modern day moral principles (at least the OT). If we followed OT behavior, which you seem to think we should, the US would be much more like Iran, which thank God is not possible with our Constitution in place. The day the US becomes a theocracy, is the day I move to Europe.

That is a false belief. I pray the Lord will convince you by His Holy Spirit that if you reject any of His word, you are rejecting Him as Lord of all, and that all truth comes from Him, and disbelieving that He is the preserver and conservator of His own Word to you.

 

[Jase]

That is a false belief. I pray the Lord will convince you by His Holy Spirit that if you reject any of His word, you are rejecting Him as Lord of all, and that all truth comes from Him, and disbelieving that He is the preserver and conservator of His own Word to you.

The only false belief is that the Bible is perfect. Just an FYI, the Earth is not flat or geocentric, even though the Bible supports this view, as did the Church for quite some time.

 

[Jase]

Rejecting His cleanness, righteousness and purity for homosexual relationships is rejecting Him. It is not a question of agreeing with me or anyone---it is a question of being at enmity with God.

Nope, still haven't rejected God. Only certain flawed interpretations of a book.

 

[Avniel]

The only false belief is that the Bible is perfect. Just an FYI, the Earth is not flat or geocentric, even though the Bible supports this view, as did the Church for quite some time.

There is more biblical evidence that homosexuality is against God then there is that it is not. Do you deny that?

 

[Lively Stone]

The only false belief is that the Bible is perfect. Just an FYI, the Earth is not flat or geocentric, even though the Bible supports this view, as did the Church for quite some time.

The bible is indeed perfect, even thought here are some copyist errors that make no difference to the message. You must learn to take things in context and remember to rise above the fact that men's simple, non-scientific knowledge filtered through their prose.

It is wonderful, and not worthy of your scorn.

 

[Lively Stone]

Nope, still haven't rejected God. Only certain flawed interpretations of a book.

That is rationalization at its most obvious! You keep telling yourself that.