Homosexuality

[Octorock]

Homosexual sex is a sin because it is fornicating...for starters.

And I said that it wouldn't be an issue if gays were allowed to be married.

 

[KCKID]

Homosexual sex is a sin because it is fornicating...for starters.

How do YOU know that anyone is fornicating? What one does in the privacy of their bedroom is really no concern of yours - be they heterosexual or homosexual. What you are saying is that you assume that people are fornicating and therefore sinning.

Advice: mind your own business and tend to your own backyard. YOU will be a lot better off for doing so not to mention those whose personal business you're poking your nose into.

Geez ...the next thing we know the Church will be installing CC Cameras into people's bedrooms just to make sure that no one is sinning . . .

 

[godsfoolishness]

How do YOU know that anyone is fornicating? What one does in the privacy of their bedroom is really no concern of yours - be they heterosexual or homosexual.

I'm just joining in the conversation and I did not read over the many pages of conversation that have been a part of this thread, but I do have to comment on the statement listed here. How can you say that what people do "in the privacy of their bedroom" should be of no concern to others in the church? As followers of Christ our brothers and sisters actions (both public and private) are of the utmost concern. Paul makes this fairly clear all throughout his writings. Western culture, and more specifically American culture, is one of the only places where this kind of statement would be accepted without question. "Independence" has become the ideal of culture and privacy and individuality are idols we bow down to. What happened to confessing sin to one another, praying for one another, provoking one another to good works, being the body of Christ - where we live in humble accountability to each other? Do you really believe there is such a thing as "privacy" of the bedroom? The actions in the bedroom affect everything! Don't believe me? Look at the many children born because their parents hardly knew each other and made a mistake one night... Look at the pain and suffering families have gone through because of sexually transmitted diseases. What is done in the "privacy" of the bedroom affects families, communities, societies, and nations. We have to at least be intellectually honest about this. I am certainly not suggesting that we beat down everyone who makes mistakes, or that the church police morality within the congregation. However, we are to be the community that bears each others burdens in love. A community where honesty and vulnerability are put above independence and privacy.

 

[oi_antz]

I'm just joining in the conversation and I did not read over the many pages of conversation that have been a part of this thread, but I do have to comment on the statement listed here. How can you say that what people do "in the privacy of their bedroom" should be of no concern to others in the church? As followers of Christ our brothers and sisters actions (both public and private) are of the utmost concern. Paul makes this fairly clear all throughout his writings. Western culture, and more specifically American culture, is one of the only places where this kind of statement would be accepted without question. "Independence" has become the ideal of culture and privacy and individuality are idols we bow down to. What happened to confessing sin to one another, praying for one another, provoking one another to good works, being the body of Christ - where we live in humble accountability to each other? Do you really believe there is such a thing as "privacy" of the bedroom? The actions in the bedroom affect everything! Don't believe me? Look at the many children born because their parents hardly knew each other and made a mistake one night... Look at the pain and suffering families have gone through because of sexually transmitted diseases. What is done in the "privacy" of the bedroom affects families, communities, societies, and nations. We have to at least be intellectually honest about this. I am certainly not suggesting that we beat down everyone who makes mistakes, or that the church police morality within the congregation. However, we are to be the community that bears each others burdens in love. A community where honesty and vulnerability are put above independence and privacy.

That's a great post, helps to give balance to the discussion. On one side we have Christians and non-Christians arguing that gay behaviour is not sinful because they don't gather that conclusion when they read the scripture. On the other side are Christians arguing that our rebirth into the kingdom of God requires repentance from the sin of homosexuality, even to the point of celibacy.

Our POV's are widely varied, it has been hard work to find common ground when we engage in these arguments voicing our loyalty to Jesus or His enemy, and we can see just how much burden there is on that decision. If we Christians are right then every convert must give-up homosexuality and people don't like to hear that. Jesus did say He will heal the sick, so after walking on the path of sin long enough, someone can always reach out to the Lord Jesus for mercy and be saved. All of these comments fall on deaf ears because we are all here trying to tell rather than listen

Have a look back through the post, it's gone round in circles all the way through!

 

[onemorequestion]

How do YOU know that anyone is fornicating?

When they label themself by sex acts.

What one does in the privacy of their bedroom is really no concern of yours - be they heterosexual or homosexual.

Not per Jesus or the Disciples. You know, the people responsible for setting up Christianity . . .

What you are saying is that you assume that people are fornicating and therefore sinning.

You are assuming we are judging them.

Advice: mind your own business and tend to your own backyard.

Tested to mean: ANYTHING GOES!

YOU will be a lot better off for doing so not to mention those whose personal business you're poking your nose into.

STD's have shown your views as misplaced and unhealthy.

Geez ...the next thing we know the Church will be installing CC Cameras into people's bedrooms just to make sure that no one is sinning . . .

Since secularism drives the anti-Christian forces out in the world, it is far more likely that CC cameras will be installed in Churches to make sure not one word against homosexuality is ever dared to be spoken.

Reality says that is how it will go.

But LGBT's don't keep anything about their sex lives private now do they?

L = female homosexuality

G = male homosexuality

B = sexuality with either gender is of no issue

T = feelings that the position they currently posses for sexuality is wrong

______________________________

Next position to soundly defeat please?

 

[David Brider]

Third: Where in scripture does it say fornication is good? Because that is all that homosexuals do.

Fornication is the only thing that homosexuals do?

I'm sorry, do you realise how utterly inaccurate that statement is?

David.

 

[onemorequestion]

That's a great post, helps to give balance to the discussion. On one side we have Christians and non-Christians arguing that gay behaviour is not sinful because they don't gather that conclusion when they read the scripture.

Notice that only some Christians and non-Christians, hold scripture as it is presented as unimportant, or just out and out discardable.

On the other side are Christians arguing that our rebirth into the kingdom of God requires repentance from the sin of homosexuality, even to the point of celibacy.

Who on our side is advocating celibacy for a man or a woman? Jesus shows us what a marriage is and holds that out for people that want to accept it. Paul also encourages Christians to marry.

Our POV's are widely varied, it has been hard work to find common ground when we engage in these arguments voicing our loyalty to Jesus or His enemy, and we can see just how much burden there is on that decision.

By their fruit you will know them. That we don't want to support and encourage the Enemy by supporting and encouraging evil, we show we are on good footing.

If we Christians are right then every convert must give-up homosexuality and people don't like to hear that.

And also the Powers and Principalities in high places.

Jesus did say He will heal the sick, so after walking on the path of sin long enough, someone can always reach out to the Lord Jesus for mercy and be saved. All of these comments fall on deaf ears because we are all here trying to tell rather than listen

Look to those altering and redefining scripture for those not listening.

Have a look back through the post, it's gone round in circles all the way through!

The schism of homosexuality may be the most definitive statement on its supporters ever presented.

 

[onemorequestion]

Fornication is the only thing that homosexuals do?

I'm sorry, do you realise how utterly inaccurate that statement is?

David.

L = female homosexuality

G = male homosexuality

B = sexuality with either gender is of no issue

T = feelings that the position they currently posses for sexuality is wrong

 

[KCKID]

I'm just joining in the conversation and I did not read over the many pages of conversation that have been a part of this thread, but I do have to comment on the statement listed here. How can you say that what people do "in the privacy of their bedroom" should be of no concern to others in the church? As followers of Christ our brothers and sisters actions (both public and private) are of the utmost concern. Paul makes this fairly clear all throughout his writings. Western culture, and more specifically American culture, is one of the only places where this kind of statement would be accepted without question. "Independence" has become the ideal of culture and privacy and individuality are idols we bow down to. What happened to confessing sin to one another, praying for one another, provoking one another to good works, being the body of Christ - where we live in humble accountability to each other? Do you really believe there is such a thing as "privacy" of the bedroom? The actions in the bedroom affect everything! Don't believe me? Look at the many children born because their parents hardly knew each other and made a mistake one night... Look at the pain and suffering families have gone through because of sexually transmitted diseases. What is done in the "privacy" of the bedroom affects families, communities, societies, and nations. We have to at least be intellectually honest about this. I am certainly not suggesting that we beat down everyone who makes mistakes, or that the church police morality within the congregation. However, we are to be the community that bears each others burdens in love. A community where honesty and vulnerability are put above independence and privacy.

So, are you advocating that questionnaires (sexual or otherwise) be completed in the church foyer in order that one's 'sins' can be tallied before anyone be allowed to enter church? I personally have NO DESIRE to know what someone is doing in the privacy of their bedroom. Why anyone else would want to beggars belief. Such personal things should NEVER be entrusted to other human beings. It should be a matter between the individual and God. Big Brother within the Church will surely bring along with it the downfall of the Church. For crying out loud ...is THIS what Christianity has come down to? Furthermore, sin, sin, sin and finger-pointing is all I ever hear/see on this forum. Is this really Jesus?

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Is their anyway that gays can be christian ?

A person can have homosexual urges and be a christian. Of course. As we all have our crosses to bear.

But to live a life of open-homosexuality with having a partner and living with them is not following the commandments of God or living a Christlike life as there is no effort to amend their lifestyle or repent of what they have done. Many homosexuals that claim to be christian often commit the sin of presumption, that is, thinking they can live any lifestyle they want by taking God's mercy for granted. many homosexuals think that it is somehow 'mercy' to confirm people in their sins because they view it as accepting the person as 'who they are'. However as one priest said, the most merciless thing a person could do if confirm them in their sins because they are opening the roads up to that soul to perdition.

In my opinion it is one of the new fads and tools of the devil today. But trying to fuse the ideas of being accepting and open-minded with accepting whatever sins the person commits.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

How do YOU know that anyone is fornicating? What one does in the privacy of their bedroom is really no concern of yours - be they heterosexual or homosexual. What you are saying is that you assume that people are fornicating and therefore sinning.

Advice: mind your own business and tend to your own backyard. YOU will be a lot better off for doing so not to mention those whose personal business you're poking your nose into.

Geez ...the next thing we know the Church will be installing CC Cameras into people's bedrooms just to make sure that no one is sinning . . .

the problem is many homosexuals do not keep it only in their bedroom. But bring it out in the open in the media, the streets, schools, parades, movies, commercials, magazines, goofy 'hate laws', and now unfortunately... politics and marriage. To the point of even invading the freedom of religion and enterprise.

If only they would keep it only in their bedrooms, or the closet so to speak. But if your gonna go out public with it and try to effect laws, politics, and culture be prepared for a backlash.

 

[onemorequestion]

So, are you advocating that questionnaires (sexual or otherwise) be completed in the church foyer in order that one's 'sins' can be tallied before anyone be allowed to enter church? I personally have NO DESIRE to know what someone is doing in the privacy of their bedroom. Why anyone else would want to beggars belief. Such personal things should NEVER be entrusted to other human beings. It should be a matter between the individual and God. Big Brother within the Church will surely bring along with it the downfall of the Church. For crying out loud ...is THIS what Christianity has come down to? Furthermore, sin, sin, sin and finger-pointing is all I ever hear/see on this forum. Is this really Jesus?

So then marriage remains a man and a woman.

Church leadership remains men that have one wife (female, and well-behaved children). Or as is the case of Catholic clergy, remain celiebate.

Something tells me that your Church is still going to have to deal with what goes on in the bedroom of couples. Sooner or later, but it is unavoidable per the engagees. So to speak.

 

[David Brider]

L = female homosexuality

G = male homosexuality

B = sexuality with either gender is of no issue

T = feelings that the position they currently posses for sexuality is wrong

Erm...none of which does anything to support Lively Stone's claim that "fornication is...all that homosexuals do."

 

[Octorock]

the problem is many homosexuals do not keep it only in their bedroom. But bring it out in the open in the media, the streets, schools, parades, movies, commercials, magazines, goofy 'hate laws', and now unfortunately... politics and marriage. To the point of even invading the freedom of religion and enterprise.

If only they would keep it only in their bedrooms, or the closet so to speak. But if your gonna go out public with it and try to effect laws, politics, and culture be prepared for a backlash.

Why don't straight people just keep it in the bedroom?

 

[godsfoolishness]

So, are you advocating that questionnaires (sexual or otherwise) be completed in the church foyer in order that one's 'sins' can be tallied before anyone be allowed to enter church? I personally have NO DESIRE to know what someone is doing in the privacy of their bedroom. Why anyone else would want to beggars belief. Such personal things should NEVER be entrusted to other human beings. It should be a matter between the individual and God. Big Brother within the Church will surely bring along with it the downfall of the Church. For crying out loud ...is THIS what Christianity has come down to? Furthermore, sin, sin, sin and finger-pointing is all I ever hear/see on this forum. Is this really Jesus?

Speaking of finger-pointing... You start off by associating a ludicrous statement with what I said (implying that I would advocate questionnaires --- thereby associating my statement with something laughable) then you go on to rant completely ignoring anything that I said. You point the finger at me and quite literally mock my statement. Quite a novel dodging tactic actually. Back on topic, the complete narrative of Scripture (of which Jesus is the culmination) points to God's love for His people and his pursuit to dwell with them and remove the pain and damage rebellion and sin has brought into the world. Part of this redemption and reconciliation starts when one becomes a part of the church community. In the church community even what is hidden is not hidden (Acts 4 - Annanias and Saphira). This is true in the Old Testament as well (Joshua 7 - Achan). Jesus was not born in a vacuum. He claimed to be the fulfillment of the Old Testament. You cannot embrace Jesus and throw out messages of sin and it's consequences... Well, you can - but you are making Jesus a fairy tale like superhero rather than who he claimed to be - Israel's long awaited Messiah.

 

[Lively Stone]

And I said that it wouldn't be an issue if gays were allowed to be married.

If you have to change the way things have been for millennia (the beginning of time), then that should tell you how perverted your request is.

 

[Lively Stone]

How do YOU know that anyone is fornicating? What one does in the privacy of their bedroom is really no concern of yours - be they heterosexual or homosexual. What you are saying is that you assume that people are fornicating and therefore sinning.

Advice: mind your own business and tend to your own backyard. YOU will be a lot better off for doing so not to mention those whose personal business you're poking your nose into.

Geez ...the next thing we know the Church will be installing CC Cameras into people's bedrooms just to make sure that no one is sinning . . .

Sex outside of marriage is fornication. Period. We don't need cameras to know that. People are brazen about their ungodliness.

 

[Lively Stone]

Fornication is the only thing that homosexuals do?

I'm sorry, do you realise how utterly inaccurate that statement is?

David.

I said it was for starters. I am sure there is a whole lot more.

 

[David Brider]

I said it was for starters. I am sure there is a whole lot more.

No, you said nothing about "for starters" - you simply said "Where in scripture does it say fornication is good? Because that is all that homosexuals do."

Which is just totally inaccurate, because those homosexual men and women who are sexually active don't spend their entire time having sex (or fornicating, if you insist). And besides which, not all homosexual men and women are sexually active anyway.

David.

 

[Jase]

If you have to change the way things have been for millennia (the beginning of time), then that should tell you how perverted your request is.

So, it was a perverted request to end slavery and allow interracial couples to marry for the first time? Was it a perverted request to give women rights that they never had before since the beginning of time?