Homosexuality

[oi_antz]

Except there is no documented, legitimate evidence in existence that shows
1) sexual orientation can be or needs to be cured - it isn't a disease

This whole thread is manifested evidence that yes, to some Christians, these verses may prevent them from peace with God. God is the healer that says "turn to me for healing" when the conscience says "um um telling on you", somewhere in Jeremiah I think..

2) that God would ever do such a thing. Based on the indication of countless people who have prayed to God for decades to have their orientation changed, it's quite obvious God has no intention of doing it for 99.999999% of said people.

I know the God I trust is the one in the Bible and I'm not arguing against what He tells me when I read it. He worked this miracle for me simply because I agreed to become like that. You only have everything to gain by accepting God.

 

[Avniel]

I don't believe your nonsense. Every baby is born with the default: heterosexual.



God is able to heal and deliver. Don't you believe that? Homosexuals are not hard cases for God. They are hard cases for themselves.

Praying hard isn't a prerequisite, and I never said it was. One needs not only salvation but he needs the Holy Spirit baptism for the power to live the way God wants.

For argument sake lets say people are born(L S no just hear me out I know your ready to jump at me from the screen let just say that they are). That doesnt mean what point does that prove? Have you ever heard the saying "born alcoholics" people that are pre disposed to be alcoholics? Does that mean them getting drunk is a sin? No not at all.

Plus the bible says "train up a child the way they should grow....(tired)"

I dont believe its genetics I feel as though it is a choice people make. People allow the devil to trick them and they make the choice to part take in that sin similar to any sin.

Just because the western society deems it acceptable doesnt mean I have to. And if my thoughts seem strange to them good they are supposed to I am not like them or trying to be like them. Once you know Jesus you walk away from the crowd worship and then your healed.

Matthew 8:1-4
When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him.
And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed

Anyone that is homosexual I ask you to come down from your mountain of sexual perversion and unnatural lust, move away from the multitudes of your gay, lesbian, bi-sexual, transgenders, transsexual crowds ....step away from the crowd be different from them.......come to Jesus with all your dirtiness and unclean spirits....worship him and say "Jesus make me clean"..........and He will put His hand on you and make you clean....And he wont condemn you but He will love you.

He cleans me

 

[Lively Stone]

[/b]Wrong. Most homosexuals and bisexuals knew at a young age that they felt different. I knew at age 3 or 4. The American Psychological Association supports this fact.

I don't buy it. it is just another form of rationalization. The humanistic world making it easier on the homosexual.

God doesn't create children with psychological perversions. They are learned or they are brought on by satanic strongholds.

God never sets people up to fail from birth so that they cannot obey His commands. That is a crock.

Tell that to every homosexual or bisexual who has prayed for many many years for God to change them, and he never does. Most of us have been through more torment and pain than you will ever comprehend, and God did nothing.

God changes everyone who allows Jesus Christ to be LORD. There is not a case in all of the world that can say he doesn't.

The accusation that God did nothing is a lie. The fact is that the person or you did nothing. He asks us to turn from our sin.

 

[Jase]

I don't buy it. it is just another form of rationalization. The humanistic world making it easier on the homosexual.

God doesn't create children with psychological perversions. They are learned or they are brought on by satanic strongholds.

God never sets people up to fail from birth so that they cannot obey His commands. That is a crock.

I don't need your approval of the issue to know for a fact that I never made a choice in the matter, nor did any other gay or bisexual person I have ever spoken too. Science and personal experience show it is not a choice, and that's all that matters. You can believe anything you want.

God changes everyone who allows Jesus Christ to be LORD. There is not a case in all of the world that can say he doesn't.

The accusation that God did nothing is a lie. The fact is that the person or you did nothing. He asks us to turn from our sin.

I did plenty. Stop accusing me of not being a believer, and that it's my fault.

 

[Jase]

For argument sake lets say people are born(L S no just hear me out I know your ready to jump at me from the screen let just say that they are). That doesnt mean what point does that prove? Have you ever heard the saying "born alcoholics" people that are pre disposed to be alcoholics? Does that mean them getting drunk is a sin? No not at all.

Plus the bible says "train up a child the way they should grow....(tired)"

I dont believe its genetics I feel as though it is a choice people make. People allow the devil to trick them and they make the choice to part take in that sin similar to any sin.

Just because the western society deems it acceptable doesnt mean I have to. And if my thoughts seem strange to them good they are supposed to I am not like them or trying to be like them. Once you know Jesus you walk away from the crowd worship and then your healed.

So you chose to be heterosexual huh?

Just like LS, you can believe whatever you want. Science and personal experience of the overwhelming majority of gays and bisexuals prove that there is an extremely strong hormonal/biological component to the development of sexual orientation. I know for a 100% fact, that I did not choose my orientation, and I have suffered extensively for it - including dozens of suicide attempts, bullying, discrimination, etc.

You guys just don't want to admit that it could be biological, because then your whole anti-gay agenda goes out of the window, and you can't hate gays anymore for something they have no control over.

 

[oi_antz]

God changes everyone who allows Jesus Christ to be LORD. There is not a case in all of the world that can say he doesn't.

This is the whole purpose of intent for the "lust is sin" law. Instead of worshipping Jesus Christ with true love, we are worshiping a creature of God's likeness with carnal love. At times like this we become aware of a need to repent, this is the free will we are allowed to exercise. We can turn our worship away from lust and toward God. If you want to commit to a life-long relationship with anyone, it should be Jesus first and when you truly make that decision and walk with Jesus, you'll know you're saved forever.

 

[Lively Stone]

I don't need your approval of the issue to know for a fact that I never made a choice in the matter, nor did any other gay or bisexual person I have ever spoken too. Science and personal experience show it is not a choice, and that's all that matters. You can believe anything you want.

Once again, God isn't a cruel jokester. He creates people with the choice to obey Him--or not. He doesn't create us with the inability to obey Him.

So, something's wrong---and needs rethinking---and it is probably the scientists and psychologists, because God doesn't set people up for failure.

I did plenty. Stop accusing me of not being a believer, and that it's my fault.

I am not accusing you of anything. That is the devil's job. Sin is our fault, and we are the ones who will pay for it if we do not confess it and overcome it in Jesus Christ. He asks us to walk away from it. if that is hard, then it is a besetting sin and an idol in your life, and needs deliverance. Jesus is ready and willing to deliver!

 

[Jase]

Once again, God isn't a cruel jokester. He creates people with the choice to obey Him--or not. He doesn't create us with the inability to obey Him.

So, something's wrong---and needs rethinking---and it is probably the scientists and psychologists, because God doesn't set people up for failure.

Lol, you obviously haven't read Genesis. The entire Adam and Eve story is an example of God setting humanity up for failure.

I, however, don't believe that story is historical. So, since science and psychologists are not wrong on this issue, we are left with the possibility that God either set humans up to fail, or God doesn't have the same problem with these issues that you have. I'm going with the latter.

I am not accusing you of anything. That is the devil's job. Sin is our fault, and we are the ones who will pay for it if we do not confess it and overcome it in Jesus Christ. He asks us to walk away from it. if that is hard, then it is a besetting sin and an idol in your life, and needs deliverance. Jesus is ready and willing to deliver!

Being gay is not a sin, therefore in that regard there is nothing to repent of. Now please stop with the preaching.

 

[Lively Stone]

Lol, you obviously haven't read Genesis. The entire Adam and Eve story is an example of God setting humanity up for failure.

I, however, don't believe that story is historical. So, since science and psychologists are not wrong on this issue, we are left with the possibility that God either set humans up to fail, or God doesn't have the same problem with these issues that you have. I'm going with the latter.

God has a BIG problem with people who claim Christ but reject the power and authority that comes with knowing Him and having His Spirit taking up residence in them. Grieving the Holy Spirit is a serious offense.

Joining with someone in fornication is bad enough but when it is someone of the same sex, it grieves Him even more, as God has had to mention it apart from His basic Commandments.

Being gay is not a sin, therefore in that regard there is nothing to repent of. Now please stop with the preaching.

Homosexual behaviour is a sin and bearing the label of "homosexual" is also a sinful and shameful attachment.

I am not preaching, am I? I am joining with brothers ans sisters of like mind, trying to teach the truth about these matters. If there is an offense it is the truth that offends---come and receive mercy and deliverance, and enjoy the light, and the fellowship of the Lord.

1 Peter 2:8-10
“ A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

 

[Avniel]

So you chose to be heterosexual huh?

Just like LS, you can believe whatever you want. Science and personal experience of the overwhelming majority of gays and bisexuals prove that there is an extremely strong hormonal/biological component to the development of sexual orientation. I know for a 100% fact, that I did not choose my orientation, and I have suffered extensively for it - including dozens of suicide attempts, bullying, discrimination, etc.

You guys just don't want to admit that it could be biological, because then your whole anti-gay agenda goes out of the window, and you can't hate gays anymore for something they have no control over.

How do you know it's a fact? Because scientist say it is? At first the earth was flat now its round...At first homosexuality was seen as a mental disorder then a sexual preference now its a race?.............I bet they were 100% sure the earth was flat too.

How so? It wouldnt matter if you were born with it or not its still a sin. I've seen babies that had bad attitudes that have bad attitudes as children when the become adults is that going to be sin? Yes. People are born with higher risk of being alcoholics that doesnt mean that drinking to much is a sin. We are born in sin any way I just dont wanna die in it.

Who said we hate you? Just because I agree with what the Bible says does not mean I hate you. I dont hate any person I hate the sin not the sinner.

Also dozen attempted suicides because of an sexual orientation, I dont know me being attracted to a women never made me wanna kill myself that sounds like lust and a idol not God. Jesus already died for your sins so you dont have to die for them again all you have to do is accept him and you wont die but have everlasting life.

 

[Zeena]

Is their anyway that gays can be christian ?

Being a Chritian is a God-given Identity, and, according to the majority of people who have such sexual relations with one another, homosexuality is ALSO and identity..

Therefore are they in conflict, one with another.. It's an identity crisis.

Meanwhile, there is only One Image of God, and that's Christ Jesus

 

[kirmac]

Except there is no documented, legitimate evidence

What is your definition of "documented, legitimate evidence?" Science journals? Because science is so completely free from biases and political agenda, right?
Using your own logic, then one can argue there is no "documented, legitimate evidence" of God, the Holy Spirit, and everything else. Since coming to Christ, I have gradually learned not to over-trust science as much as I had in the past.

Based on the indication of countless people who have prayed to God for decades to have their orientation changed, it's quite obvious God has no intention of doing it for 99.999999% of said people.

Where did you get that number? Is it from a so-called "documented, legitimate evidence," to steal your own words? What sample size are you using? Are you using a random, unbiased sample? Could it be that the odds only SEEM that way to you? In psychology there's phenomenon called confirmation bias in which a person, both consciously and subconsciously, accepts and retains only the information he/she prefers. I don't know about you, but there seems to be plenty of counter-evidence as well; people who claim to have been "healed" of their attractions. You are readily willing to believe the negative testimony, yet so easily brush-off the positive ones. Plus I believe the APA's current official position on sexuality is that for some people, it may be quite fluid over the course of a life time. Don't quote me on it though because I don't know if they've since updated that position and I don't give a flying boot what APA says anyway.

 

[kirmac]

Some valid questions when debating whether God "heals" and "changes" homosexually-oriented individuals is:

-Does God "heal" and "change" amputees, so that they regrow their limbs? If not, why not?
-Does God allow hermaphrodites to be born that way? They are textbook examples of congenital deviations in human sexuality. If God allows hermaphroditism, what grounds do we have to rule out that he allows homosexual orientation? (I'm not talking about behavior, but the orientation)
-God is all-powerful to do anything he wants. But does that necessarily mean he actually does? Does he still raise the dead? Jesus healed the blind, mute, lame, etc. but only a select few. Could it be that as many homosexual-identifying people claim, that God simply does not intend to heal them?

Note that in all instances I'm dealing with homosexual orientation, not the behavior.

 

[KCKID]

Some valid questions when debating whether God "heals" and "changes" homosexually-oriented individuals is:

-Does God "heal" and "change" amputees, so that they regrow their limbs? If not, why not?
-Does God allow hermaphrodites to be born that way? They are textbook examples of congenital deviations in human sexuality. If God allows hermaphroditism, what grounds do we have to rule out that he allows homosexual orientation? (I'm not talking about behavior, but the orientation)
-God is all-powerful to do anything he wants. But does that necessarily mean he actually does? Does he still raise the dead? Jesus healed the blind, mute, lame, etc. but only a select few. Could it be that as many homosexual-identifying people claim, that God simply does not intend to heal them?

Note that in all instances I'm dealing with homosexual orientation, not the behavior.

Why the emphasis on orientation and not behavior as if to highlight a 'non-sin' as opposed to a 'sin'? If allowances can be made for homosexuality to be 'natural' for a particular individual would it not be just as natural for the 'homosexual orientation' to lead to 'homosexual behavior'? Also, when is the first 'sin' chalked up against the homosexual ...the first sexual attraction? the first kiss? the first . . .when?

Sorry, but my flair for logic always seems to get in the way of this particular topic . . .

 

[oi_antz]

Some valid questions when debating whether God "heals" and "changes" homosexually-oriented individuals is:

-Does God "heal" and "change" amputees, so that they regrow their limbs? If not, why not?

God purposefully refrains to impress us with miracles, the greatest weakness is pride.

-Does God allow hermaphrodites to be born that way? They are textbook examples of congenital deviations in human sexuality. If God allows hermaphroditism, what grounds do we have to rule out that he allows homosexual orientation? (I'm not talking about behavior, but the orientation)

No opinion, remember God is much more open minded than all of us combined.

-God is all-powerful to do anything he wants. But does that necessarily mean he actually does? Does he still raise the dead? Jesus healed the blind, mute, lame, etc. but only a select few. Could it be that as many homosexual-identifying people claim, that God simply does not intend to heal them?

Miracles are a work of God's will. By will He created the universe, by will He raises the dead. By will He grants us mercy and love and everlasting life. All this happens without a cost to us. Why? He even grants us free will that we can decline His miracles without consequence. Why?

The orientation cannot be shrunk (ie un-trained), but stretched. It's associated with the memory sustaining thoughts in favour of a new habit: to see the good in the opposite sex and to concentrate on your relationship with Jesus. When God grants that wish you know it's real.

It is actually much easier to resonate with the same sex, which is why brotherly love doesn't always manifest as homosexual behaviour.

 

[kirmac]

Why the emphasis on orientation and not behavior as if to highlight a 'non-sin' as opposed to a 'sin'? If allowances can be made for homosexuality to be 'natural' for a particular individual would it not be just as natural for the 'homosexual orientation' to lead to 'homosexual behavior'? Also, when is the first 'sin' chalked up against the homosexual ...the first sexual attraction? the first kiss? the first . . .when?

Sorry, but my flair for logic always seems to get in the way of this particular topic . . .

It's because I firmly believe the Bible does condemn (at least the) homosexual BEHAVIOR. To me it's plain and simple.

 

[Phinehas2]

KCKID,

Why the emphasis on orientation and not behavior as if to highlight a 'non-sin' as opposed to a 'sin'? If allowances can be made for homosexuality to be 'natural' for a particular individual would it not be just as natural for the 'homosexual orientation' to lead to 'homosexual behavior'? Also, when is the first 'sin' chalked up against the homosexual ...the first sexual attraction? the first kiss? the first . . .when?

Sorry, but my flair for logic always seems to get in the way of this particular topic . .

According to God’s word, one cannot say heterosexuality is or isnt sinful, God made man and woman to be in faithful union so sex outside that is sinful whether ‘heterosexual’ or ‘homosexual’ in modern terms.
The heart that comes from faith in Christ through the Holy Spirit is to seek to follow Christ’s teaching, not to see how much of a sin could be allowed.
There is no such thing as sexual orientation in God’s created order, God created man and woman to be united so sexual orientation is a human concept designed to make out a wrong desire is somehow not wrong. Anyone can be tempted to lie, to steal, to engaged in sexual acts outside marriage, the temptation to lie isn’t an orientation. With reference to God’s purposes and truth, the pro-gay argument tries to make a sinful desire sound like a natural orientation.

 

[Phinehas2]

Jase,

Just like LS, you can believe whatever you want. Science and personal experience of the overwhelming majority of gays and bisexuals prove that there is an extremely strong hormonal/biological component to the development of sexual orientation

But those are entirely human concepts, condemned as foolishness sin and turning away from God. Totally anti-Christian. This is a Christian section. Please post Christian views.
God made male and female, man and woman to be united, (Gen 2,Matt 19, Mark 10, Eph 5) and if not, to be celibate (Matt 19, 1 Cor 7) There is no such thing God has created as gays and bisexuals,they are identities humans have given to themselves to justify their disordered dysfunctional desires as condemned in Gen 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1 and Romans 1.

NB. If personal experiences and scientific philosophy is the basis of your faith can I suggest the non-Christian section of the forum for your views.

 

[KCKID]

It's because I firmly believe the Bible does condemn (at least the) homosexual BEHAVIOR. To me it's plain and simple.

It's just a belief, however, no matter how firmly it might be entrenched. Not that you're doing so (yet) but please don't ever state that YOUR belief over-rides someone elses belief. "I" don't believe that the Bible condemns homosexuality within the confines of a monogamous relationship any more than it condemns heterosexuality within the confines of a monogamous relationship. For "me" it's just as plain and simple.

 

[Phinehas2]

Jase,

Lol, you obviously haven't read Genesis. The entire Adam and Eve story is an example of God setting humanity up for failure.

There is no indication in the whole of scripture that God intentionally set Adam and Eve up for failure. Yours is an assumption.
I would suggest that if God so loved the failed world that He gave His only Son, His intention wasn’t for failure. I think as God has been angry at continued failure the only viable assumption one can have is that God didn’t set humanity up for failure, which would suggest such as comment as yours is the sort of undermining of God that Satan imparts.

I, however, don't believe that story is historical.

Jesus referred to it, don’t you believe Jesus is the way the truth and the life?

Being gay is not a sin, therefore in that regard there is nothing to repent of. Now please stop with the preaching.

There is nothing in God’s Biblical testament about gay or being gay, there cannot be as God made man for faithful union with women, any sexual desires and activity outside that are sin. Lively Stone is entirely correct, sin is our fault as I have illustrated above as well, and Jesus is ready and willing to deliver.