Homosexuality

[Lively Stone]

Fail.

Scripture is not a fail. People who misapprehend it definitely are.

 

[KCKID]

Scripture is not a fail. People who misapprehend it definitely are.

The 'fail' was in your not presenting the scripture that I asked for.

 

[Lively Stone]

What we are and what we call ourselves is not the point. When an alcoholic becomes sober, he or she is still an alcoholic. When heterosexual sex addicts control their behavior, they are still sex addicts. Almost all of us struggle with pride... we are prideful people whether we call ourselves that or not. We don't chose our orientations... even the good ones like being artistic. A worldly homosexual lifestyle that includes casual sex is not in harmony with Christianity, but neither is a worldly heterosexual lifestyle that includes casual sex.

When one is delivered of alcoholism by Jesus Christ, one cannot say he is an alcoholic. when Jesus heals someone of cancer, one doesn't go around saying he has cancer. Likewise, when a Christian is delivered of the bondage of homosexuality, he errs when he refers to himself as a homosexual.

Homosexuality is not a talent like the artistic gift! That is extremely laughable.

Given that:

1. Orientations and temptations are not sinful... only if we act on them.
2. Many sinful acts of a homosexual are also sinful for heterosexuals.

What it boils down to is this: is it possible for a homosexual to be intimate with a committed partner in a way that isn't sinful? We could debate the passages and historical context all day, but like so many other debatable questions, we won't know for sure as long as we are here on Earth.

Instead of losing sleep over this, Homosexuals (like the rest of us) should continue to grow their relationship with God. And we should all try to avoid disdain and judgmental condemnation. Remember that the second greatest commandment says, "Love your neighbor" not "Conditionally love your neighbor if they agree with you and are like you".

It is not possible for a homosexual to be "intimate" with a partner that isn't sinful. He needs to come to grips with the sin in it and get on his face before God in serious repentance and receive deliverance, and the freedom that can only come from being intimate with the living Jesus Christ.

 

[Lively Stone]

The 'fail' was in your not presenting the scripture that I asked for.

I perceive that you have heard it all before and simply reject the word of God. I am not going to waste my time posting them for you. You know them like the back of your hand, don't you?

This isn't a game. People's lives and eternities are at stake.

 

[KCKID]

It is not possible for a homosexual to be "intimate" with a partner that isn't sinful. He needs to come to grips with the sin in it and get on his face before God in serious repentance and receive deliverance, and the freedom that can only come from being intimate with the living Jesus Christ.

Where is the text that states: homosexuality is a sin?

 

[Phinehas2]

VertigoAge,

What we are and what we call ourselves is not the point. When an alcoholic becomes sober, he or she is still an alcoholic. When heterosexual sex addicts control their behavior, they are still sex addicts. Almost all of us struggle with pride... we are prideful people whether we call ourselves that or not. We don't chose our orientations... even the good ones like being artistic. A worldly homosexual lifestyle that includes casual sex is not in harmony with Christianity, but neither is a worldly heterosexual lifestyle that includes casual sex.

Your response is still somewhat at odds with the truth of God’s word which shows believers know what sin is and seek not to do it. Whoever seeks to sin is a slave to sin and still in bondage.

What it boils down to is this: is it possible for a homosexual to be intimate with a committed partner in a way that isn't sinful?

It is impossible for a Christian to be in a same sex sexual relation of any sort. It is possible for people to be in same sex sexual relationships, their beliefs are not the same as Christianity.

We could debate the passages and historical context all day, but like so many other debatable questions, we won't know for sure as long as we are here on Earth.

no its not debatable.

Instead of losing sleep over this, Homosexuals (like the rest of us) should continue to grow their relationship with God. And we should all try to avoid disdain and judgmental condemnation. Remember that the second greatest commandment says, "Love your neighbor" not "Conditionally love your neighbor if they agree with you and are like you".

Christians need to grow their relationship with God, they can’t do that if they have barriers and conditions they impose on God such as homosexuality.

 

[Phinehas2]

KCKID,

The word of God is clear when it states that disobedient children should be executed, does it not?

Sorry, I didn’t hear you acknowledge that the word of God is clear in its condemnation of same sex relationships?

But I DO believe that the scriptures state that disobedient children should be executed.

No problem with that, can you give the passage.
My point was it is reasonable to say that you don’t believe the scriptures that condemn same sex relations.

Clearly ..

Cleary same sex relations are condemned in the Bible.
If you accept the Bible says that I will be happy to debate whether same sex attraction is also condemned, but if you cant there is little point discussing with you what the Bible says when you don’t believe what it says.

 

[Phinehas2]

KCKID,

Where is the text that states: homosexuality is a sin?

Same sex relations are error and detestable, do you accept that? If not what is the point of showing you scripture you dont believe?

 

[KCKID]

I perceive that you have heard it all before and simply reject the word of God. I am not going to waste my time posting them for you. You know them like the back of your hand, don't you?

This isn't a game. People's lives and eternities are at stake.

You BET it's not a game! And, I'm not asking you to post 'them' ...those texts that don't state what I'm asking. Yes, I've seen them a million times. I only want the text that states: homosexuality is a sin. It's just that I can't find it in my Bible and yet you and others keep claiming "homosexuality is a sin."

 

[KCKID]

KCKID,
Sorry, I didn’t hear you acknowledge that the word of God is clear in its condemnation of same sex relationships?
No problem with that, can you give the passage.
My point was it is reasonable to say that you don’t believe the scriptures that condemn same sex relations.

Cleary same sex relations are condemned in the Bible.
If you accept the Bible says that I will be happy to debate whether same sex attraction is also condemned, but if you cant there is little point discussing with you what the Bible says when you don’t believe what it says.

But, I DO believe that the Bible states any number of things. I CAN read. All I'm asking for is that little bitty text that states: homosexuality is a sin. Show it to me and I'll believe that the Bible states it. Sounds pretty simple to me.

 

[Phinehas2]

KCKID,

But, I DO believe that the Bible states any number of things. I CAN read. All I'm asking for is that little bitty text that states: homosexuality is a sin. Show it to me and I'll believe that the Bible states it. Sounds pretty simple to me.

As I said unless you can acknowledge the Bible exclusions and condemnation of same sex relations, Gen 2, Gen 19, Lev 18 & 20, Matt 19, Mark 10, Eph 5, 1 Cor 5-7, 1 Tim 1, Romans 1, 2 Peter 2 and Jude 1, there is little point in referring you to anything else in the Bible.
Homosexuality by definition includes same sex attraction and same sex relations. At Sodom, the men wanted sex with the men which was pronounced wicked, so there is your answer.

 

[KCKID]

KCKID,
Same sex relations are error and detestable, do you accept that? If not what is the point of showing you scripture you dont believe?

Does that mean: same sex relations are a sin? If so, the same Bible states that planting two separate crops side by side is error and detestable. Does that mean that planting two separate crops side by side is a sin? If not, why not?

 

[KCKID]

KCKID,
As I said unless you can acknowledge the Bible exclusions and condemnation of same sex relations, Gen 2, Gen 19, Lev 18 & 20, Matt 19, Mark 10, Eph 5, 1 Cor 5-7, 1 Tim 1, Romans 1, 2 Peter 2 and Jude 1, there is little point in referring you to anything else in the Bible.
Homosexuality by definition includes same sex attraction and same sex relations. At Sodom, the men wanted sex with the men which was pronounced wicked, so there is your answer.

You're making this far too complex. I just want the scripture that states: homosexuality is a sin. If it doesn't exist then just say so.

 

[Phinehas2]

KCKID,

Does that mean: same sex relations are a sin? If so, the same Bible states that planting two separate crops side by side is error and detestable. Does that mean that planting two separate crops side by side is a sin? If not, why not?

The scriptures are clear and have been given, if you don’t know what 14 chapters of the Bible mean, what are the chances of you knowing any of it?

 

[Phinehas2]

KCKID,
because its faulty gay theology which the scriptures I have cited shows to be error.

 

[Avniel]

I am sick and tired of all these people bending the bible to fit their "sin agendas." I am tired of people trying to manipulate things that are clearly in the bible. I am tired of those that live sinful lives trying to water down the bible.

Fact homosexuality is against God. It was not and is not in his plan(how do I know...I read the bible). And its not just the act of same sex sexual relations its the very thought that is sinful.

The church needs to get right. We are taken this legistic thing to far. That doesn't mean don't follow the rules it just means don't miss out on love. Stop reading the bible for justification your self rightousness is only going to get you in trouble.

 

[Phinehas2]

Yes the church needs to start to build relationships with, and love gays and lesbians, and at the same time ditching and ridding itself of the false teaching of gay christianity, which is actually doing more damage to the church than LGBT activism.

There should be no difference in attitude and approach by the Christian to any non-believer, it should be the same compassion that Christ had towards the believer when He died for them.

 

[Lively Stone]

You BET it's not a game! And, I'm not asking you to post 'them' ...those texts that don't state what I'm asking. Yes, I've seen them a million times. I only want the text that states: homosexuality is a sin. It's just that I can't find it in my Bible and yet you and others keep claiming "homosexuality is a sin."

You are in denial, if you've seen them a million times.

 

[Peripatetic]

When one is delivered of alcoholism by Jesus Christ, one cannot say he is an alcoholic.

Alcoholics Anonymous (founded by Christians and rooted in the belief that God's help is needed) says otherwise. My father was delivered form alcoholism with the help of his faith. He has been sober for years, and I am very proud of him, but he still has an orientation towards alcoholism, and cannot drink (even socially).

One more scenario: a woman was regularly physically abused by her non-Christian husband and divorced him. She finds true love for the first time in her life when she meets a wonderful Christian man. She also finds God for the first time from this relationship. Can she marry him? The logic that you and others have used here would say no. The bible says that divorce is only permissible when adultery is present. So, if she remarried, she would be committing adultery against her husband each time she was intimate with her new husband. Do you know any remarried Christians? Would you tell them that they cannot be Christians unless they return to their first husband?

My point all along is that we can't know another's sanctification path. The Holy Spirit works differently, and I will never say with certainty that someone else's salvation is or is not secure.

 

[Phinehas2]

VertigoAge,
Whether believers continue to have a desire to sin is not the issue, and many longer do. My addiction to tobacco was completely terminated through faith in Christ.

Do you know any remarried Christians? Would you tell them that they cannot be Christians unless they return to their first husband?

The NT teaching shows Christians should not remarry if divorced, on the other hand, it also shows where there is genuine repentance there is forgiveness. I assume we both agree that divorce and same sex relationships are wrong? Or are you playing devil’s advocate?

My point all along is that we can't know another's sanctification path. The Holy Spirit works differently, and I will never say with certainty that someone else's salvation is or is not secure.

Ah, whilst we cannot make the call we know the dangers from Christ’s teaching.