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Bro.T

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A little a date on what going in the world

Chicago plans school for gay students

The head of Chicago's school system has proposed the creation of a "gay-friendly" high school to counter the high bullying, depression and drop-out rates among homosexual pupils.



Last Updated: 1:54PM BST 10 Oct 2008

Bill Greaves, Chicago city's liason officer said it was important that gay and lesbian historical figures were highlighted to give young gay people positive, successful role models Photo: PA



The Pride Campus of Social Justice High School would be open to all students in the city, and would probably end up being "majority straight", said Arne Duncan, the head of Chicago Public Schools.

But it would provide a supportive atmosphere for gay pupils, using prominent gays and lesbians - including James Baldwin and Gertrude Stein - in its curriculum.
Bill Greaves, the city's liason officer on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender issues, said the school would "make sure these people are not invisible in history".

He said it was important that gay and lesbian historical figures were highlighted to give young gay people positive, successful role models.

The proposals were supported by most of the 50 Chicago residents who attended a public meeting on the city's education. They will be voted on by the Chicago board of education on October 22.

If approved, the Pride Campus would be unlikely to open until 2010 and would teach 600 students.

The scheme has already been tried elsewhere, with the Alliance High School in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, which considers itself "gay friendly" and has 125 students.

"We want to create great new options for communities that have been traditionally under-
served," Mr Duncan said in the Chicago Tribune. "If you look at national studies, you see gay and lesbian students with high dropout rates... I think there is a niche there we need to fill."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...92/Chicago-plans-school-for-gay-students.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...92/Chicago-plans-school-for-gay-students.html

peace in jesus name
 
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Wade Smith

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We are not under the law anymore, thank God..None of us could keep it. The law shows us our need for Grace......Jesus Christ!:thumbsup:

That is not entirely true. As I've had to repeatedly show in several threads. We are not under ceremonial law, but the Moral law has always been the same.

"Shall we sin that grace may abound? God forbid..."

If we were "not under the law" then there would be no such thing as sin in the first place.

Jesus himself said that the Law would not pass away, and moreover, he reiterated the ten commandments, etc.



1 John 3:4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
 
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Bro.T

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That is not entirely true. As I've had to repeatedly show in several threads. We are not under ceremonial law, but the Moral law has always been the same.

"Shall we sin that grace may abound? God forbid..."

If we were "not under the law" then there would be no such thing as sin in the first place.

Jesus himself said that the Law would not pass away, and moreover, he reiterated the ten commandments, etc.



1 John 3:4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Thats right, you can't have one without the other, if you put sin on the table, then you have to put the LAw.

peace in jesus name
 
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Jase

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I'm not going to waste a whole lot of time here, seeing as everyone is clearly in agreement (albeit wrongly) about this issue.

First of all, Sodom and Gomorrah were not condemned or destroyed for homosexuality. They were condemned for inhospitality, arrogance, greed, hatred towards strangers, and rape.

A sodomite is one who exihibits these characteristics, not a homosexual. The word sodomy, in the 17th Century KJV, referred to general wickedness, and had no correlation to sexuality whatsoever. It was later incorrectly translated to refer to homosexuals.

1 Corinthians 6 does not refer to modern day homosexuals, it is directed towards temple prostitutes, and those who practiced unnatural sex acts before their temple gods.
 
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I'm not going to waste a whole lot of time here, seeing as everyone is clearly in agreement (albeit wrongly) about this issue.

First of all, Sodom and Gomorrah were not condemned or destroyed for homosexuality. They were condemned for inhospitality, arrogance, greed, hatred towards strangers, and rape.

A sodomite is one who exihibits these characteristics, not a homosexual. The word sodomy, in the 17th Century KJV, referred to general wickedness, and had no correlation to sexuality whatsoever. It was later incorrectly translated to refer to homosexuals.

1 Corinthians 6 does not refer to modern day homosexuals, it is directed towards temple prostitutes, and those who practiced unnatural sex acts before their temple gods.
Leviticus was rather clear when it spoke about homosexuality though. Do not lay with a man as you would a woman? Does that sound like a general type of wickedness or a specific type?
 
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Jase

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Leviticus was rather clear when it spoke about homosexuality though. Do not lay with a man as you would a woman? Does that sound like a general type of wickedness or a specific type?
When looked into the culture, and context of that reference, it doesn't refer to consentual same gender relationships.

And of course, Leviticus also says it is an abomination to wear mixed fabrics, eat shellfish, not stone your children to death for disobedience, etc. Do you abide by any of them? If not, why the double standard?
 
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LivingWordUnity

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According to this logic, being married / having love without procreation is self indulgance. Thus, it is self-indulgent for a man and a women to be married and have an intimate relationship if they:



Otherwise:



I have to disagree with your illogical conclusions. I think people should be able to find love and choose not to have children.
Hope no one minds if I throw in my two cents.

As the example of Abraham and Sarah and Zechariah and Elizabeth shows us, even if a man and woman are old and infertile there is still a possibility that God can grant them a miracle of a child between the two of them. But with a homosexual couple, this is a biological impossibility since they were never made for each other in the first place.

Wade Smith was on target to point out that the relationship between a man and a woman mirrors the relationship between Christ and the Church. The man typifies Christ and the woman typifies the Church. That's why the act of homosexual sex is the ultimate rebellion against God's plan for our salvation.

Another thing that makes the sin of homosexual sex stand out among other sins is how we don't see other sins paraded in front of us in pride festivals and now even taught to Kindergarteners in some public schools without any prior notification or consent of the parents. We see "Gay Pride" parades in the news, but I have never seen a "Thief Pride" or an "Adultery Pride" parade for example.

Pride was the sin that got Satan kicked out of heaven and the sin that got Adam and Eve kicked out of paradise. We have to be humble enough to admit to our sins and to repent of them before we can be forgiven for them.

The way things are going with political correctness, there might come a day when a Christian who calls homosexual sex a sin gets thrown in jail for a "hate crime". The Bible might get outlawed because of the many places where it says that homosexual sex is a sin and for Jesus defining marriage as being between one man and one woman.

But we should still love the sinner but hate the sin remembering that we too need God's mercy and forgiveness for our own sins.




And that's all I've got to say about that. :)
 
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Wade Smith

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When looked into the culture, and context of that reference, it doesn't refer to consentual same gender relationships.

And of course, Leviticus also says it is an abomination to wear mixed fabrics, eat shellfish, not stone your children to death for disobedience, etc. Do you abide by any of them? If not, why the double standard?

1822Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

22`And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it [is].

20:13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

13`And a man who lieth with a male as one lieth with a woman; abomination both of them have done; they are certainly put to death; their blood [is] on them


Notice something. I said this in the other thread on this topic, and I say it again here. There is never mentioned an issue of consent. There is nothing in the context of either of these verses that suggests "Rape", in fact, the context of verse 20:13 specificly says both parties are guilty, refuting any claims that it is talking about rape.

It specificly cannot be "rape", becaue BOTH men are found guilty. In a rape case, there can only be one person found guilty, because the other person was not consenting.

However, as stated, in 20:13, God says that both men have committed an abomination. Therefore we know that this is NOT referring to a rape, but refering to two consenting individuals. Therefore, homosexual acts are an abomination even when both parties consent, just as adultery is a sin even when both parties consent.
 
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Wade Smith

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Rather than play these games, let me ask you this.

Genesis 4:8-12 NIV

8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, "Let's go out to the field." [d] And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him. 9 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?"
"I don't know," he replied. "Am I my brother's keeper?"
10 The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth."


What did Cain do here? He sinned, did he not? Yes, it is obvious so, we know he did when he killed Abel. Yet, how did he know it was wrong? Did Cain have the law? By what was he found guilty by then if the law was not around? God spoke to him directly, and told him it was wrong. Now then, what do we find similar with then, that we see now?...

Cain and Abel did have the law. I showed this from scripture in another debate.

Basicly Just read Genesis very carefully and you'll notice something.

3And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

4And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Notice a few things.

1) They already knew about the sacrificial system.

Abel chose to bring the correct sacrifice: an animal, most likely a lamb. Cain chose to bring vegetables.

2) Cain already knew murder was wrong.

The fact that he tries to deflect God's question with the pathetic response, "I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?"

This shows that his conscience already convicted him. He lies to cover up murder, and then attempts to deflect attention from the lie by shifting blame (to no one in particular). Conscience really only convicts if it already knows right from wrong. Else, you have innocence. Again, the fact that he lies to cover it up proves he already knew it was wrong to begin with.

3) Later, during the time of Abraham, they had a priesthood established including one "Melchesidec" the King of Salem, who is called, "The Priest of the Most High God," to whom Abraham payed tithe. Obviously it was not the Levitical priesthood, but it was nevertheless a priesthood.

This means that there had to be AT LEAST an oral tradition given to mankind by God which included the most basic aspects of the law, sacrificial system, and priesthoods. We see several times in Genesis, before the co-called "Law of Moses" given, that people offer sacrifices to God and they know right from wrong without God having to "tell" them. Why? Again, because God had given the moral standard of righteousness to them already, and it was passed down through oral tradition.
 
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Bro.T

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I'm not going to waste a whole lot of time here, seeing as everyone is clearly in agreement (albeit wrongly) about this issue.

First of all, Sodom and Gomorrah were not condemned or destroyed for homosexuality. They were condemned for inhospitality, arrogance, greed, hatred towards strangers, and rape.

A sodomite is one who exihibits these characteristics, not a homosexual. The word sodomy, in the 17th Century KJV, referred to general wickedness, and had no correlation to sexuality whatsoever. It was later incorrectly translated to refer to homosexuals.

1 Corinthians 6 does not refer to modern day homosexuals, it is directed towards temple prostitutes, and those who practiced unnatural sex acts before their temple gods.

Well you make a small point, Sodom and Gomorrah were condemned for not keeping the Law, but Sodom and Gomorrah took there wickedness on another level with there Homosexuality. Same thing going on today.

peace in jesus name
 
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Bro.T

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Cain and Abel did have the law. I showed this from scripture in another debate.

Basicly Just read Genesis very carefully and you'll notice something.

3And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

4And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Notice a few things.

1) They already knew about the sacrificial system.

Abel chose to bring the correct sacrifice: an animal, most likely a lamb. Cain chose to bring vegetables.

2) Cain already knew murder was wrong.

The fact that he tries to deflect God's question with the pathetic response, "I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?"

This shows that his conscience already convicted him. He lies to cover up murder, and then attempts to deflect attention from the lie by shifting blame (to no one in particular). Conscience really only convicts if it already knows right from wrong. Else, you have innocence. Again, the fact that he lies to cover it up proves he already knew it was wrong to begin with.

3) Later, during the time of Abraham, they had a priesthood established including one "Melchesidec" the King of Salem, who is called, "The Priest of the Most High God," to whom Abraham payed tithe. Obviously it was not the Levitical priesthood, but it was nevertheless a priesthood.

This means that there had to be AT LEAST an oral tradition given to mankind by God which included the most basic aspects of the law, sacrificial system, and priesthoods. We see several times in Genesis, before the co-called "Law of Moses" given, that people offer sacrifices to God and they know right from wrong without God having to "tell" them. Why? Again, because God had given the moral standard of righteousness to them already, and it was passed down through oral tradition.

Thats right brother

I like to take the law futher back then cain and abel....Let go to Ezekiel 28

28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel is talking about satan in this chapter, we know ezekiel wasn't in the garden of eden brother and sisters, so the Lord found iniquity in satan.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)

peace in jesus name
 
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Wade Smith

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Tell me, who here never sins? Tell me, who among you is perfect after accepting Christ? Do you do every single perfect deed? Do you not even for a moment contemplate anything that could be a sin? Do you never yell? Are you never mean? Do you never lie?

Tell me, who among you is perfect. Who among you is equal to Christ? Who is as righteous as Him? Why would you even need Him if you were?

.

"Faith without works is dead."


Yes you can lose salvation.

You say, "it cannot be a gift if you can lose it by what you do."

Yes it can.

Let me ask you this. If someone gives you a gift, lets say a collectors edition video of your favorite football team's championship season, can you lose it?

Ok, you've got the gift. You didn't work to earn it.

But you know what? If you throw it in the trash, that's the end of it.

You didnt' work to earn it, but you certainly can lose that gift by throwing it away.

If a person comes to the place that they no longer have faith in Christ and what he did at the Cross, they are no longer "saved".

If you are in a shipwreck at sea, and the coast guard comes along and pulls you out of the water, you are "Saved".

However, if you dive back overboard halfway back to shore, your blood is upon you.


2 Peter 2:20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


Notice.

1) in verse 20, they had once escaped sin, the "pollutionsof the world" through the knowledge of Lord and savior Jesus Christ.

2) In verse 21, they have known the way of righteousness, but Peter says it was better if they had never known in the first place, because the latter end is worse.

3) verse 22, the sow started out washed, and then went and played in the mud.


Romans 11:19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


If OSAS, this parable is meaningless. Why bother warning anyone to "take heed lest he also spare not thee"? If OSAS there would be no reason to "take heed", because there would be no consequence of not taking heed. But there is a consequence, which is being cut off...

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

You can't depart "the faith" if you were not IN "the faith" to begin with.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



"Faith only" has never been a biblical doctrine. "Faith without works is dead."

OSAS has never been a Biblical doctrine.

Ezekiel 3:20
Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Ezekiel 18:24
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Ezekiel 33:13
When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.


Over and over again, the scriptures tell us that a person can be born again, and then end up losing their salvation. They can: turn away, fall away, depart, be cut off, etc.

Remember, these letters are written to believers, not unbelievers.
 
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Wade Smith

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Your belief that nothing has changed in spite of Christ's sacrifice explains alot.

Thanks for your input, FA!


.

Nothing has changed.

Malachi 3:6For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

God's moral standards have never changed. Ever.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Did you know that Jesus "Work" on the cross was finished from the beginning?

Genesis 2


1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Nothing has changed.

Hebrews 4:3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


Our temporal mind cannot really comprehend this, but Jesus was ALWAYS the "Crucified and resurrected savior". The temporal fact of Jesus' death did not change anything as it regards God. "I am the Lord, I changed not."

Revelation 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Here, we see Jesus as a slain lamb(yet alive). But the scripture says God does not change, and again, it says "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever." Therefore, Jesus has never changed.


Salvation comes by faith in Jesus Christ and what he did at the cross.

However, God's moral standard is the same as it always has been, else he would have changed.

John defined sin in his epistle "1 John".

"Sin is the transgression of the LAW."

1 John 1:6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


Remember, the Bible is written to believers. This letter is specificly written to believers, as John spends about half a chapter explaining that he is writing the letter to remind the believer of what they already know. "I have written unto you because you know..."

Sins are not forgiven without repentance. If a person does not acknowledge their sin and does not repent (turn away) from that sin, they are not forgiven.

Jesus did not merely say, "Believe the Gospel.".

He said, "REPENT and believe the Gospel."


1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Grace is not a license to sin. The Cross does not allow you to just sin at will and get away with it "scott free".

4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

"Love" is defined as "Keeping the commandments".

2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

21Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
 
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Bro.T

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"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because, that in it, He had rested from all his work which God created and made." [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](Gen 2:1-3)[/FONT][/FONT].

The bible reveals that God [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]blessed [/FONT][/FONT]and [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]set apart [/FONT][/FONT](sanctified) [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]the seventh day. [/FONT][/FONT]This day is holy unto God, and it is the [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]only [/FONT][/FONT]day of the week that we are [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]commanded to honor. [/FONT][/FONT]"Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation: ye shall do no work therein: it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings."

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](Lev 23:3)[/FONT][/FONT]. A holy convocation is an assembly of the people of God, who come together to worship him.

There are two calendars that exist. God's calendar and man's calendar; both consist of seven day weeks. The difference in the two calendars is that God has named the days with numbers, and man has given the days names. God's calendar begins with day 1 and ends with day 7, his weekly Sabbath. Man's calendar names day 1 as, Sunday, and ends with Saturday, day 7, God's weekly Sabbath. Although man's calendar is universal (the same all over the world) the majority of professed Christians worship the Lord on Sunday which is clearly the 1st day of the week not the 7th day that the Lord has hallowed, sanctified and commanded that we keep.

(Ex.31:16-17). [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]If you're a [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]stranger [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](Non-Israelite), you must also [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]keep the Lord's Sabbath day. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]"Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love him, to be his servants, every one of them that keepth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Even them will I bring to my Holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar: [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people." (Isaiah 56:6-7). [/FONT][/FONT]

Even in this day, any Christian not honoring the customs of the Lord is to be cut off from among "The Church" (Israel). "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us." [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](2Thes 3:6)[/FONT]. People, keeping the Sabbath day is apart of that tradition.

We all know that the Sabbath day consist of 24 hours, as all days do. However it is important that we understand that the Lord begins the day with the evening, "And God called the light day, and the darkness was called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](Gen 1:5). [/FONT][/FONT]Man begins the day at 12:01 am, so, there is about a six hour difference from sundown (beginning of the day) to midnight. In other words, [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]the seventh day begins Friday at evening, [/FONT][/FONT]instead of, midnight Friday; thus, [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]the seventh day is sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. [/FONT][/FONT]As we tend to keeping the whole law of God, we must, also remember to observe the whole day of rest.

Prophecy declared that we would [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]forget to keep the Sabbath holy. [/FONT][/FONT]

"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy", is what the Lord commands us in the "Ten Commandments", see [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Ex.20:8-11.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Yes, the world has forgotten to sanctify the Sabbath and that is the reason why we (the world) are in such a terrible state today. [/FONT][/FONT]

"The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]transgressed the laws, change the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. [/FONT][/FONT]Therefore hath the cursed devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left." [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](Isaiah 24:5-6)[/FONT][/FONT].

Let this scripture encourage us not to be [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]"Covenant breakers" [/FONT][/FONT]and learn how we are to [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]honor the Sabbath [/FONT][/FONT]by keeping it [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]holy [/FONT][/FONT]and a [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]sacred [/FONT][/FONT]day. Men and women of Israel and all that fear God, if we want eternal life in Jesus' Kingdom, and favor with God and man here on earth, we must be Christians, and rejoice in his Sabbath on the Sabbath (7th day).

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Listen, people, read your bibles, hear the word of God, take hold of His covenant and follow the example that he has set for us. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]peace in jesus name
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
 
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Brother Nathan

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OK...not reading your article...the first couple sentances was all I really needed to get the direction you're headed with this thread...but I skimmed through the rest of it...

Let me just say...who are any of us on this planet to judge who will and who will not come to Christ...regardless of what their "particular" sins are.

I think it's a dangerous path to tread upon when we broad-stroke any group of people with a heart of condemnation.

ANYONE with a repentant and sincere heart who accepts Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior into their hearts will be saved...let the Lord be concerned with transforming their lives and circumcising their hearts...

Perhaps...a little less condemnation...and a bit more love and prayer for those in bondage to homosexuality would be more beneficial than yet another thread like this....


Greetings Christ413. Why woundnt you want to hear the word of God. Pay no attention to Tanzel. He is ONLY a messenger delivering the word of God. People ONLY JUDGE OTHERS BY THEIR OWN OPINIONS.

Furthermore all will not be saved. Their will be some that will not be saved when the Lord comes. This is simple. The reason they will not be saved is because they do things that the Lord hates, adhored, or He show indignation then and he will show it in the later end by His wrath.
 
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LovebirdsFlying

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Greetings Cris413. Why woundnt you want to hear the word of God. Pay no attention to Tanzel. He is ONLY a messenger delivering the word of God. People ONLY JUDGE OTHERS BY THEIR OWN OPINIONS.

Furthermore all will not be saved. Their will be some that will not be saved when the Lord comes. This is simple. The reason they will not be saved is because they do things that the Lord hates, adhored, or He show indignation then and he will show it in the later end by His wrath.

I disagree with the bolded part. I submit that the reason they will not be saved is because they rejected the offer of salvation, which was made to everyone. They said, "No thank you," and didn't accept the gift.
 
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Brother Nathan

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Typical condemnation of another sinner who sins appear to be 'bigger' than yours. You would be surprised how many homosexuals that know the Lord, very surprised. Don't assume just because of an outward sign that they have not been touched by the hand of God and that he is not in the process of sanctifying them. But, most people would not know that or even believe because their close-minds and legalistic attitudes won't allow for it.

I disagree with the bolded part. I submit that the reason they will not be saved is because they rejected the offer of salvation, which was made to everyone. They said, "No thank you," and didn't accept the gift.

God does desire that all men come to repentance. God also said if you walk countrary to me i will walk contrary to you. I think thats a bad position to be in.

Leviticus 26:27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; 28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
 
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Cris413

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Greetings Cris413. Why woundnt you want to hear the word of God. Pay no attention to Tanzel. He is ONLY a messenger delivering the word of God. People ONLY JUDGE OTHERS BY THEIR OWN OPINIONS.

Furthermore all will not be saved. Their will be some that will not be saved when the Lord comes. This is simple. The reason they will not be saved is because they do things that the Lord hates, adhored, or He show indignation then and he will show it in the later end by His wrath.

I think you may want to read through the thread a bit further before making assumptions about who would or would not want to hear the word of God...but thanks for your concern...

Being new to the forums...you may not be as worn out as some with thread after thread of people pointing fingers and making broad stroke judgments of others regarding their salvation...I for one certainly am.

I think I'll let the Holy Spirit speak through God's word...

And...my name is Cris...not Christ...it would be great if you would edit your post and correct that...

I understand not all will be saved...but it has nothing to do with their ability to keep God's commandments...just as LBF said...it will be because of their choice not to accept God's mercy and grace and forgiveness...

...the redemption and reconciliation available to everyone by the sacrifice of Christ Jesus on the cross.

Peace...


ADDED COMMENT: I can not encourage this STRONGLY ENOUGH...I believe each and everyone of us should prayerfully seek the Holy Spirit and search Scripture on our own to gain wisdom and understanding...and not put a whole lot of value and credence into preaching/teaching by total strangers on any message board...

For that matter...don't put all your trust in what comes from the pulpit...the television...the radio...or your closest friend or family member...

Act 17:11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.


there are many out there who know Scripture like the back of their hand...yet...have a heart to serve their own agendas....

Spend time with the Lord...in prayer and in His word...and while I believe...sitting under an anointed pastor/teacher has great spiritual benefit....still....make sure what's coming from the pulpit...is coming from God's word....as led by the Holy Spirit...
 
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Bro.T

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I think you may want to read through the thread a bit further before making assumptions about who would or would not want to hear the word of God...but thanks for your concern...

Being new to the forums...you may not be as worn out as some with thread after thread of people pointing fingers and making broad stroke judgments of others regarding their salvation...I for one certainly am.

I think I'll let the Holy Spirit speak through God's word...

And...my name is Cris...not Christ...it would be great if you would edit your post and correct that...

I understand not all will be saved...but it has nothing to do with their ability to keep God's commandments...just as LBF said...it will be because of their choice not to accept God's mercy and grace and forgiveness...

...the redemption and reconciliation available to everyone by the sacrifice of Christ Jesus on the cross.

Peace...


ADDED COMMENT: I can not encourage this STRONGLY ENOUGH...I believe each and everyone of us should prayerfully seek the Holy Spirit and search Scripture on our own to gain wisdom and understanding...and not put a whole lot of value and credence into preaching/teaching by total strangers on any message board...

For that matter...don't put all your trust in what comes from the pulpit...the television...the radio...or your closest friend or family member...

Act 17:11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.


there are many out there who know Scripture like the back of their hand...yet...have a heart to serve their own agendas....

Spend time with the Lord...in prayer and in His word...and while I believe...sitting under an anointed pastor/teacher has great spiritual benefit....still....make sure what's coming from the pulpit...is coming from God's word....as led by the Holy Spirit...

Why do you think that we don't have to keep God's commandments?

If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

peace in jesus name
 
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Wade Smith

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Originally Posted by ANM29
Typical condemnation of another sinner who sins appear to be 'bigger' than yours. You would be surprised how many homosexuals that know the Lord, very surprised. Don't assume just because of an outward sign that they have not been touched by the hand of God and that he is not in the process of sanctifying them. But, most people would not know that or even believe because their close-minds and legalistic attitudes won't allow for it.
Go read Matthew 7 please.

Abbreviated version, i.e. "summary".

"You can't be a Christian and live like the devil at the same time."

or

"You can't be a Christian and continue in willful sin or false doctrine."

It is well established to anyone who has ever read the Bible and is honest about it, that homosexuality is and always was a sin in the eyes of God.
 
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