Homosexuality: Right or Wrong? (read pg1)

[EnemyPartyII]

Since you have not yet shown a godly example of same sex union from the Bible I would wager that you can't. What does that tell us? Especially since Christ does address marriage and marriage is shown in Genesis to be a man and a woman. .
NASB
Gen 2:24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

I keep telling you... just because the Bible doesn't mention something specifically does NOT equal condemnation... you can't show me an example from the Bible of people using computers either, so same deal.

And yes, Gen 2:24 talks about what happens when a man marries a woman... what it DOESN'T say is that thats the ONLY acceptible version of the idea

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I suppose we shouldn't under-estimate the power of the enemy...

*lol* the enemy has no power over me. Jesus is with me every moment of the day.

Do you think Jesus isn't with you? Is that why you are all so afraid to honestly evaluate evidence that contradicts a simplistic literalistic reading of the Bible?

Geez... saying the enemy s powerful... almost sounds like... praise... and you know, all your praise is supposed to be reserved for someone e-e-e-e-l-s-e...

 

[Floatingaxe]

it couldn't be that the 10 commandments are based on the same ethical memes that occur everywhere else?

Just a thought.

I mean is the water in the puddle hole shaped, or is the hole around the water puddle shaped?

The Ten Commandments laid down the law to convince of sin.


Other cultures never got them, and continued on in their ways. So, it's impossible that these God-less cultures would have any influence from them, except where historically, Israel defeated them, overruled them and intermarried with them.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

The Ten Commandments laid down the law to convince of sin.


Other cultures never got them, and continued on in their ways. So, it's impossible that these God-less cultures would have any influence from them, except where historically, Israel defeated them, overruled them and intermarried with them.

so why is so much of what is considered moral worldwide so similar... even in "Godless" cultures with no ancient contact with post exodus Jews?

 

[Floatingaxe]

so why is so much of what is considered moral worldwide so similar... even in "Godless" cultures with no ancient contact with post exodus Jews?

I believe it is as Ishida said:

Perhaps all/most cultures are, since the law is written on our hearts. A woman came to my church and she was a missionary who visited Papau,(sp)New Guinea. She found that 5 of the main laws were in the 10 commandments, it was pretty cool to hear. I think it takes a lot of SOMETHING to resist it..

There is definitely that factor that permeates all cultures. God does tell us that His law is written on man's heart, so there is no excuse to deny Him.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I believe it is as Ishida said:



There is definitely that factor that permeates all cultures. God does tell us that His law is written on man's heart, so there is no excuse to deny Him.

So if I just go by what my conscience says is all good, I'm all set with God?

 

[Apollo Celestio]

*lol* the enemy has no power over me. Jesus is with me every moment of the day.

Do you think Jesus isn't with you? Is that why you are all so afraid to honestly evaluate evidence that contradicts a simplistic literalistic reading of the Bible?

Geez... saying the enemy s powerful... almost sounds like... praise... and you know, all your praise is supposed to be reserved for someone e-e-e-e-l-s-e...

I'm not talking about you specifically, sorry if it seemed that way, I mean the "worldly" enemy that controls people to make governments with less-than-good values, but I suppose in a sense it applies to all of us. But then again, I do think the enemy has influence on you. (Not so much the homosexuality, but your disbelief of the majority of the bible.) I could be wrong though, it may not seem so, but I wish very much for Jesus to be with you every moment of the day, and for all of us. (What joy thoughts like these bring me, thank you Lord....I've said too much here..) I have sort of, but why do I have to accept it, I've prayed for wisdom and insight on the scriptures, I don't think it's wrong to read it like I do. When one doesn't, I've only seen bad come from it. And i'm not praising the enemy, but he IS powerful. There is no denying it, God is more powerful, but the enemy isn't worthless, otherwise the narrow path would be a little more jammed, don't you think?

 

[Floatingaxe]

So if I just go by what my conscience says is all good, I'm all set with God?

No. We are not ruled by conscience as man was before. We are in the age of Grace. We need Jesus Christ in order to be right with God. Being aware of our sinfulness is not enough--we need to be made righteous. Only by the blood of Christ.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I'm not talking about you specifically, sorry if it seemed that way, I mean the "worldly" enemy that controls people to make governments with less-than-good values, but I suppose in a sense it applies to all of us. But then again, I do think the enemy has influence on you. (Not so much the homosexuality, but your disbelief of the majority of the bible.) I could be wrong though, it may not seem so, but I wish very much for Jesus to be with you every moment of the day, and for all of us. (What joy thoughts like these bring me, thank you Lord....I've said too much here..) I have sort of, but why do I have to accept it, I've prayed for wisdom and insight on the scriptures, I don't think it's wrong to read it like I do. When one doesn't, I've only seen bad come from it. And i'm not praising the enemy, but he IS powerful. There is no denying it, God is more powerful, but the enemy isn't worthless, otherwise the narrow path would be a little more jammed, don't you think?

Oh, amen, brother!

 

[MrPirate]

interesting, given that so much energy is spent telling me that "God's word never changes, is unchangeing and appropriate for all time"... but I digress.

It always is interesting.

Especially when coupled with the fact that when ever the new covenant is brought up those desperately trying to justify their own petty personal prejudice try to put disclaimers on the new covenant by saying the just KNOW that God doesn’t want them to follow any of those inconvenient rules. And these people also happen to just KNOW that God want a few of the old rules left in place and by some amazing coincidence these are the rules they use to justify hatred for a minority

 

[MrPirate]

There is no proof of a gay gene.

And there is no proof of a “black gene” does this make racism morally acceptable?”

 

[MrPirate]

C. Study for yourself to show yourself approved (as the Bible directs) and do not just lean on others. Personally, I look to the orginal language and its definitions...but you generally reject that as well.

Apparently you reject such when it shows that your personal prejudices are not supported.

 

[MrPirate]

When science contradicts Scripture it is fiction, not fact. Yest, we are to use our brain and test all things but the Bible is the standard.

So must you believe the world is flat and the sun travels around the flat earth?

You must also believe that there are birds with four feet and wings

There is no empirical proof of a gay gene. The debate rages on in the scientific community.

Actually there is overwhelming evidence that sexual oriention is inborn. What doesn’t’ exist is evidence that homosexuality is the result of some “choice” or is the result of how one was raised. Or the result of childhood trauma, sexual or otherwise, or any other psychological or sociological or familial reason.

 

[MrPirate]

How can I answer when I have no idea what part of the Bible you accept as true? I know you reject Paul's writings, which wipes out quite the chunk.

This is a HUGE cop out. shame on you

EmemyParty asks some very relevant questions of you and they deserve real answers.

A. Could you answer the question please? Do you execute insolent children? Do you stone rape victims or force them to marry their attackers? All things the OT tells us to do... are these still appropriate ways to live life?

B. I don't think I reject any scripture... what I OBject to is people who post a huge chunk of scripture that isn't really relevent to the discussion at handwithout any supporting material, or explanation of how the said chunk supports their point

c. Great. Lets look to the original language and its definitions... if Paul is talking about homosexuals in the original Greek, why does he use Arsenokroites, rather than the usual Greek word for homosexuals

d.moral relativism be stuffed... thats a catchcry of people with no more logical debating points.

I can explain why rape is wrong. I can explain why murder is wrong. I can explain why theft is wrong. All without relying on the Bible. Thats NOT moral relativism, thats philosophy and ethics. I am unable to explain anything wrong about homosexuality. So is the Bible. Thats not moral relativism either, thats the Bible being less than perfect, and poorly written.

Now, if you want to explain why homosexuality is wrong in a way that doesn't just say "the Bible SEZ!" I am prepared to listen to you. However, I believe that Bible and logic and reason are what God wants us to understand him with... not just a slavish devotion to Biblical literalism

Please respond to her post

 

[Floatingaxe]

Actually there is overwhelming evidence that sexual oriention is inborn. What doesn’t’ exist is evidence that homosexuality is the result of some “choice” or is the result of how one was raised. Or the result of childhood trauma, sexual or otherwise, or any other psychological or sociological or familial reason.

There is more proof for the latter than for the former!

 

[MrPirate]

Scientists can be wrong...see the flat earth idea for an example.

Science ahs known for thousands of years that the earth is not only round but NOT the center of the universe.

T is Christianity that spent centuries denying such basic truths.

Carbon dating has been shown to be inaccurate.

Any evidence to back this claim up?

I don't doubt the existence of dino's.

So…Adam and Ave had to be on the look out for hungry T-Rex’s?

And how is it that ALL the dinosaur bones ended up in layers so much deeper and older than any human artifact? Were they more streamlined?

 

[Floatingaxe]

I and many other Christians believe that dinosaurs existed at a time before known creation. It was another creation. Read up on the Gap Theory. It fits. It existed before Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.

 

[MrPirate]

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS00D2

Your really trying to use the Family Research Council????

Some quick history.

The FRC was started by Paul Cameron after he was expelled form the American Psychiatric Association for ethics violations. Cameron was found to be making up data for his papers (his papers all concerned homosexuals…he subscribed to if the facts don’t support your hatred…make up new facts) he also was lying about the legitimate research and findings of other scientists. He did try to get his phony studies published by pretending to be a sociologist…but no one bought it.

http://www.qrd.org/qrd/religion/anti/cameron/medical.consequences.rebuttal2.txt
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_cameron.html


Since then Cameron has continued to make up facts about homosexuals.

Some of his more famous lies include:
Homosexuals have a life expectancy of 39 years.
Homosexuals commit up to thee fourths of all child sexual assaults
The majority of serial killers were homosexuals
Homosexuals are 5000 times as likely to have a STD as heterosexuals
You are 15 times more apt to be murdered by a gay man than a heterosexual



Lets look at the false witness being presented here:

Scientists have not even come close to proving a genetic or biological cause for homosexuality, yet homosexual activists continue to say that sexual activity between members of the same sex is "just the same" as race or gender.

There are literally thousands of published peer reviewed studies showing that sexual oriention is inborn.

Using "biology" as a stamp of legitimacy, activists have pushed for special rights, from sex-partner subsidies to "gay marriage" to adoption.

Equality is not a “special right”

Without scientific evidence to support such claims,

Lie…see above

it is wrong and dangerously misleading to say that people are born homosexual and cannot change.

Why? The only reason I can figure is that they are afraid that the truth might incline people to reject the lies and the bigotry and the discrimination

Yvette C. Schneider, a former lesbian who is now married, is a policy analyst in the cultural studies department at Family Research Council.

Notice the typical weasel wording here

 

[MrPirate]

Those scientists are biased. They keep trying to prove something despite the evidence to the contrary. I trust them as far as I trust politicians. LOL

The fact that the work and research these scientist have done contradicts your position does not mean that hit is “biased” rather it shows dishonesty on your part.

However, for the sake of discussion I'll play along. If there is a gay gene, such as is suspected for alcoholism, that does not excuse us from our actions. We have a choice whether to to sin or not sin and the Holy Spirit gives us the power to do live godly lives, walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh. Our victory truly is in Christ.

Your attempted comparison of homosexuality to a disease is wholly wrong they are not comparable.

To be an alcoholic one must first inject alcohol to excess at least two times. The genetic predisposition to alcoholism triggers actual structural changes in the brain of the addict after multiple exposures to high concentrations of alcohol. Homosexuals are that sexual oriention prior to any sexual experience. Additionally sexual experience does not change the brain.

Further one may have this genetic predisposition to alcohol addiction and consume alcohol without ever becoming an alcoholic. Likewise individuals who do not have this genetic predisposition to alcohol addiction can and often do become alcoholics.

There is a study indicating that only about 8% of alcoholics have this genetic predisposition, it will take me some time to find that reference

 

[MrPirate]

I'll play your game for a minute. Show me a quote from Christ, or anywhere in the Bible, that specifically addresses same-sex marriage in a positive way?

Funny you should mention game playing:
Show us a quote from Jesus or from anywhere eels in scripture that specifically condems same-sex marriage