Homosexuality is wrong....so you fail

[david_x]

This brings us to the question of: Does might make right?

In other words, just because G-d is more powerful than us, does that give him the right to dictate our behavior under consequence of damnation?

It's not because He is more powerful, it's because he is holy.

 

[Beanieboy]

Is this thread a joke? Am I missing the punchline?

For all the homosexual Christians out there having to put up with discrimination like this from your narrow minded brothers; my prayers are with you.

Tired of constantly having to defend myself Christianity to other Christians, claiming that homosexual Christian was an oxymoron, (is heterosexual Christian redundant? Is a guy that goes to strip clubs, or sleeps with lots of women, Christian simply because he is heterosexual?), I researched and practiced Buddhism for a few years. I found God in it, surprisingly.

One of the practices is to sit in meditation when you feel anger or hurt or hatred towards someone who has purposely tried to harm you physically, mentally, or spiritually. You sit with this person clearly in front of you, and envision them surrounded by dark smoke. You breathe in that dark smoke, like a vacuum cleaner, and breath out love and light and sunlight toward them. As you do this, you say, "I bless you, my enemy, for you have been my greatest teacher. I humble and sincerely thank you."

Logically, it made no sense. Why would I breathe in smoke? Why would I thank them?

However, I understood in practice. I thanked them that they challenged my love to grow. They challenged me to learn how to have compassion for someone who mistreated me, to truly forgive someone who had wronged me and not apologized. They taught me how to love a little more. And I thanked God for the opportunity to grow, and the opportunity to show a different way to live.

On TOL, many of the active Christian posters were allowed to be as vulgar and as insulting or mocking as they wished, because the mods claimed that it was loving, trying to get the person to turn from homosexuality. I, however, was expected to not respond in kind, or was reprimanded. I had to take the high road. In response to, "I hate your guts, and so does God! I can't wait to rejoice over your blood on Judgment" with "I'm sorry you feel that way. May God bless you and keep you and make himself known in your life."

I sometimes think about how much easier it would have been to have been born straight. I could sleep with women, and people would say, "Boys will be boys." Other guys would high five me, like I scored a touchdown. I could even prepare for my wedding by having my best man hire strippers or even prostitutes, and no one says a word. I could hold hands with the person I was dating, and never think twice. I could get married, and never have to fight for the right in court. I would never be assumed that I may molest a child. I could get drunk, smoke weed, watch porn, gamble, swear, and no one would say, "You aren't a Christian!" I wouldn't have my love relationship seen only as a lustful sex act. I wouldn't have to explain why I "chose" to be heterosexual. I wouldn't be accused of disobeying God, even if I was unmarried and sexually active. I wouldn't have to come out to my family, and fear rejection, and experience distance. I wouldn't have Pat Robertson saying that I am the reason that planes flew into the WTC. I could get STD's, and be forgiven, while condemning gays for AIDS. I would see myself reflected in every TV show, every commercial and movie, and get upset if one gay character dared show his face.

It would have been so much easier, and I often pleaded with God when I was younger to take it away, asked him why he would curse me like this. What I have learned over the years was that I was gay because God knew I could handle it, and gays and lesbians are one way that God challenges Christians to really examine their hearts. If there is so much hatred toward us, God illuminates that, and asks how one can hate his brother, and love God. God illuminates treating others with injustice, illuminates the murder within their hearts for those who insist on quoting the death penalty of Leviticus. He illuminates our interpretation of the bible, even our understanding of such stories as S&G, which are not about homosexuality at all. He illuminates how we justify killing someone who is gay. He illuminates our callousness to those who are living and have died of HIV and AIDS. He lifts us up as examples when we return curse with blessing, when we remain steadfast when told that God hates us.

He uses us as servants for his will. And so now, I thank him. I accept the challenge instead of yearn for an easier life. And from time to time, God sends someone like you, a sanctuary in the storm, and I hear God's voice of encouragement, telling me to keep going, and that I'm almost at the finish line.

 

[PhilosophicalBluster]

It's not because He is more powerful, it's because he is holy.

Who says he's holy? What qualities make up 'holy-ness'?

 

[david_x]

Who says he's holy? What qualities make up 'holy-ness'?

4. having a spiritually pure quality.

He is set apart from evil.

 

[marksman007]

I was skulling through my reference files and found this bit of information. ALSO is a homosexual organisation.

A recent study conducted by the Alternative Lifestyle Organisation (ALSO) and the Australian Drug Foundation found that homosexuals have a much higher rate of drug usage than does the general population. For example, “65 per cent of gay, lesbian, bisexual and queer men aged 20 to 29 and 36 per cent of women in the same category have used ecstasy. This is compared to 19 per cent of men and 12 per cent of women in the same age group in the national survey”.http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=53152126#_edn1

Also, a study of 16,000 adolescents in America, as reported in the Archives of Paediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, found that lesbian and bi-sexual teenagers are more likely to smoke and more vulnerable to cigarette marketing than their straight sisters. Almost 40 per cent of lesbians and bisexuals smoked, compared to just 6 per cent of heterosexual teenage girls. This finding is in keeping with previous studies on the subject.[ii]

http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=53152126#_ednref1 James McKenzie, “Study finds higher drug use within the community,” Brother Sister, 6 July 2000, p. 3.

[ii] As reported in “Up in smoke,” MCV, 23 April 2004, p. 11.

 

[marksman007]

Who says he's holy? What qualities make up 'holy-ness'?

In answer to your question, the bible mentions holiness more than 900 times. The word means "to cut" or "to separate." Holiness is a cutting off or separating from what is unlclean and consecrating oneself to what is pure.

In terms of God himself, it decribes his transcendance over the creation and the moral perfection of his character. The bible gives him titles such as "holy, the holy one and the holy one of Israel."

In Leviticus 19:2 God says to his people that they should be holy because he was holy.

In the New Testament, with coming of the Holy Spirit, holiness of life should govern an individuals thoughts and attitudes in relation to persons and objects in the external world.

Because of this and the fact that all sex outside of marriage is forbidden by God for his people, homosexuality is off limits because that is sex outside of marriage, bearing in mind that the bible teaches that marriage is between a man and a woman.

I hope that this gives you some understanding of the topic.

 

[b&wpac4]

In answer to your question, the bible mentions holiness more than 900 times. The word means "to cut" or "to separate." Holiness is a cutting off or separating from what is unlclean and consecrating oneself to what is pure.

I think his problem is going to be that, from his point of view, we are taking God's word for the fact that He is Holy.

 

[david_x]

I think his problem is going to be that, from his point of view, we are taking God's word for the fact that He is Holy.

He is Holy, but that is not why I take his word.

 

[marksman007]

A survey by The Advocate, a homosexual magazine, revealed that promiscuity is a reality among homosexuals. The poll found that 20 percent of homosexuals said they had had 51-300 different sex partners in their lifetime, with an additional 8 percent having had more than 300.

Unprotected homosexual sex is also a concern among health professionals. A survey in Ireland by the Gay Men's Health Project found that almost half of homosexuals said they were having unprotected sex....



The fact that many homosexuals appear to live their lives in sexual overdrive does not seem to concern leaders in the movement. In an editorial from the same issue (August 15) in which the survey results were published, The Advocate said: "[Homosexuals] have been proud leaders in the sexual revolution that started in the 1960s, and we have rejected attempts by conservatives to demonize that part of who we are."

:o I remember at a National Conference for homosexuals in a seminar about advancing the cause of homosexuality, the guy running it said that this sort of information must be supressed. he said "if this gets out, we will never be accepted as normal."

 

[Psudopod]

A survey by The Advocate, a homosexual magazine, revealed that promiscuity is a reality among homosexuals. The poll found that 20 percent of homosexuals said they had had 51-300 different sex partners in their lifetime, with an additional 8 percent having had more than 300.

Unprotected homosexual sex is also a concern among health professionals. A survey in Ireland by the Gay Men's Health Project found that almost half of homosexuals said they were having unprotected sex....

What are the equivalents for hetrosexuals?

 

[ArgentBear]

Folks don't like that there is a God Who says what is absolutely right and wrong. And they also don't like that He has called Christians to correct people with His truth in love.

You mean like it's wrong to give false witness against gays and lesbians?

 

[ArgentBear]

The homosexual is not interested in "civil rights" but how they can bury the church and their approach to homosexuality. Once they have done that, they can legitimise all manner of perversion which is nothing more than rebellion.

In one homosexuals magazine it was stated that they were not interested in homosexual marriage (I don't say 'gay' marriage because most homosexuals are not gay), they were wanting to destroy marriage as we know it so that they can overthrow estabished society and make everything abnormal normal.

Another unreferenced and unsupported claim

Of course once you remove absolutes you can do anything you want. I notice in the USA there is an organisation fighting to make sex between men and boys legal.

A real organization or a fake one like NAMBLA

The mantra of those who want to get rid of God's absolutes is that there are no absolutes. Of course, saying that there are no absolutes is as absolute as you can get.

When God created the heavens and earth and mankind, he did so with a certain genome or DNA. The absolutes he gave were intented to allow us to enjoy his creation in its fulness as they work in harmony together.

Once sin came in, degredation in all facets of life began and we have the situation now where we no longer know what is normal and healthy. In our headlong pursuit to push all the boundaries, we will end up a human wreck as we become slaves of our own debauchery which incidentally we were not made for.

It is an absolute that God said to love your neighbor. Prejudice and false witness against a minority are not loving acts no matter how one twists things

 

[Belk]

A very good point Zaac. It illustrates well that the root issue is rebellion against God and his society or in other words, I don't want anyone telling me what I can and cannot do epitomosed in the claim that God is dead.

The evolutionists are not fighting for the fairy story of evolution but the right to exclude God from their lives legitimately.

The homosexual is not interested in "civil rights" but how they can bury the church and their approach to homosexuality. Once they have done that, they can legitimise all manner of perversion which is nothing more than rebellion.

In one homosexuals magazine it was stated that they were not interested in homosexual marriage (I don't say 'gay' marriage because most homosexuals are not gay), they were wanting to destroy marriage as we know it so that they can overthrow estabished society and make everything abnormal normal.

Of course once you remove absolutes you can do anything you want. I notice in the USA there is an organisation fighting to make sex between men and boys legal.

The mantra of those who want to get rid of God's absolutes is that there are no absolutes. Of course, saying that there are no absolutes is as absolute as you can get.

When God created the heavens and earth and mankind, he did so with a certain genome or DNA. The absolutes he gave were intented to allow us to enjoy his creation in its fulness as they work in harmony together.

Once sin came in, degredation in all facets of life began and we have the situation now where we no longer know what is normal and healthy. In our headlong pursuit to push all the boundaries, we will end up a human wreck as we become slaves of our own debauchery which incidentally we were not made for.

So, is there anything that is not a conspiracy against Christianity? Please, do keep elaborating your views. You are doing more to help the cause of gay rights then I could ever hope to.

 

[ArgentBear]

I was skulling through my reference files and found this bit of information. ALSO is a homosexual organisation.

Considering how accurate and reliable your last set of claims were you might wish to actually verify things before you post them.

A recent study conducted by the Alternative Lifestyle Organisation (ALSO) and the Australian Drug Foundation found that homosexuals have a much higher rate of drug usage than does the general population.

I went looking through ALSO and could find nothing even coming close to this claim….imagine my surprise.

For example, “65 per cent of gay, lesbian, bisexual and queer men aged 20 to 29 and 36 per cent of women in the same category have used ecstasy. This is compared to 19 per cent of men and 12 per cent of women in the same age group in the national survey”.

This quote doesn’t seem to exist and neither does this “study”

Also, a study of 16,000 adolescents in America, as reported in the Archives of Paediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, found that lesbian and bi-sexual teenagers are more likely to smoke and more vulnerable to cigarette marketing than their straight sisters. Almost 40 per cent of lesbians and bisexuals smoked, compared to just 6 per cent of heterosexual teenage girls. This finding is in keeping with previous studies on the subject.

One has to wonder why you used a secondary source for this instead of the primary source . Since I was unable to find what study was being talked about here I would have to guess the primary source wasn’t used because the study doesn’t say what is claimed it says

 

[ArgentBear]

More unreferenced claims. Why should we accept the reliability of these claims?

A survey by The Advocate, a homosexual magazine, revealed that promiscuity is a reality among homosexuals. The poll found that 20 percent of homosexuals said they had had 51-300 different sex partners in their lifetime, with an additional 8 percent having had more than 300.

Again should we use Penthouse forum to determine just how many married men cheat on their wives?

 

[Belk]

More unreferenced claims. Why should we accept the reliability of these claims?



Again should we use Penthouse forum to determine just how many married men cheat on their wives?

Well... yeah. If your purpose is to slander married men and try to make them look bad by whatever means necessary.

 

[david_x]

Well... yeah. If your purpose is to slander married men and try to make them look bad by whatever means necessary.

I think he was trying to say that the poll was biased...

 

[Steezie]

I was skulling through my reference files and found this bit of information. ALSO is a homosexual organisation.

A recent study conducted by the Alternative Lifestyle Organisation (ALSO) and the Australian Drug Foundation found that homosexuals have a much higher rate of drug usage than does the general population. For example, “65 per cent of gay, lesbian, bisexual and queer men aged 20 to 29 and 36 per cent of women in the same category have used ecstasy. This is compared to 19 per cent of men and 12 per cent of women in the same age group in the national survey”.http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=53152126#_edn1

Interesting that I cant actually FIND this study except on sites condemning homosexuality.

Also, a study of 16,000 adolescents in America, as reported in the Archives of Paediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, found that lesbian and bi-sexual teenagers are more likely to smoke and more vulnerable to cigarette marketing than their straight sisters. Almost 40 per cent of lesbians and bisexuals smoked, compared to just 6 per cent of heterosexual teenage girls. This finding is in keeping with previous studies on the subject.

[ii]

Adults smoke generally because it calms them down when anxious or depressed. Gee, why would a member of a group that's often treated rather poorly by certain sectors of society be anxious and depressed?

In Leviticus 19:2 God says to his people that they should be holy because he was holy.

He also says to avoid shellfish and wearing mixed fabric. Keeping that in mind, are we?

Because of this and the fact that all sex outside of marriage is forbidden by God for his people, homosexuality is off limits because that is sex outside of marriage, bearing in mind that the bible teaches that marriage is between a man and a woman.

Wait wait wait, you say that homosexuality is bad because it's sex outside of marriage (ignoring for a moment that there is MORE to being gay than just having lots of sex) yet you wont allow gays to get married even in a civil capacity....

A survey by The Advocate, a homosexual magazine, revealed that promiscuity is a reality among homosexuals. The poll found that 20 percent of homosexuals said they had had 51-300 different sex partners in their lifetime, with an additional 8 percent having had more than 300.

And how do those stack up against the heterosexual population?

Unprotected homosexual sex is also a concern among health professionals. A survey in Ireland by the Gay Men's Health Project found that almost half of homosexuals said they were having unprotected sex....

You DO realize that condoms were not widely available in Ireland until pretty recently.

I remember at a National Conference for homosexuals in a seminar about advancing the cause of homosexuality, the guy running it said that this sort of information must be supressed. he said "if this gets out, we will never be accepted as normal."

Wait wait wait, what on earth were you doing at a national conference for homosexuals?

Research indicates that the average male homosexual has hundreds of sex partners in his lifetime:

·The Dutch study of partnered homosexuals, which was published in the journal AIDS, found that men with a steady partner had an average of eight sexual partners per year.​

·Bell and Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43 percent of white male homosexuals had sex with 500 or more partners, with 28 percent having one thousand or more sex partners.[13]

​

The B&W study has already been found to be faulty
Gay Mental Health

And what Dutch study?
​

·

In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in the Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven et al. found that "the modal range for number of sexual partners ever [of homosexuals] was 101-500." In addition, 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent had between 501 and 1,000 partners. A further 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent reported having had more than one thousand lifetime sexual partners.[14]

Ummm, guess again, Van den Ven's work does not cover this at all

Van den Ven, L., Post, M., de Witte, L. and Van den Heuvel, W. “It takes two to tango: the integration of people with disabilities into society”. Disability and Society, 20, 3,311–329,2005.

van der Ven et al. (2008): Deriving risks based on model parameters rather than experimental data

It's a toxicology paper.
​

·

A survey conducted by the homosexual magazine Genre found that 24 percent of the respondents said they had had more than one hundred sexual partners in their lifetime. The magazine noted that several respondents suggested including a category of those who had more than one thousand sexual partners.[15]

​

FRC = Fail
​

A very good point Zaac. It illustrates well that the root issue is rebellion against God and his society or in other words, I don't want anyone telling me what I can and cannot do epitomosed in the claim that God is dead.

So EVERYTHING that you dont like is just rebelling against god?

The evolutionists are not fighting for the fairy story of evolution but the right to exclude God from their lives legitimately.

Which seems pretty legit to me. As a Pagan, I dont want God in my life

The homosexual is not interested in "civil rights" but how they can bury the church and their approach to homosexuality. Once they have done that, they can legitimise all manner of perversion which is nothing more than rebellion.

It'd be nice to see you actually PROVE this rather than just rant and rave about it

In one homosexuals magazine it was stated that they were not interested in homosexual marriage (I don't say 'gay' marriage because most homosexuals are not gay), they were wanting to destroy marriage as we know it so that they can overthrow estabished society and make everything abnormal normal.

And Cosmo says that men inherently dont really ever think about anything, what's your point?

Of course once you remove absolutes you can do anything you want. I notice in the USA there is an organisation fighting to make sex between men and boys legal.

Freedom of speech is a real bear, id'nt it?

The mantra of those who want to get rid of God's absolutes is that there are no absolutes. Of course, saying that there are no absolutes is as absolute as you can get.

Dude, stay off the philosophy, it doesnt suit you

When God created the heavens and earth and mankind, he did so with a certain genome or DNA. The absolutes he gave were intented to allow us to enjoy his creation in its fulness as they work in harmony together.

Yeah THAT worked out well. Wait a second, if God created us, why arent we perfect? A perfect creator should produce a perfect creation.

Once sin came in, degredation in all facets of life began and we have the situation now where we no longer know what is normal and healthy. In our headlong pursuit to push all the boundaries, we will end up a human wreck as we become slaves of our own debauchery which incidentally we were not made for.

You realize you're kvetching about the same things Plato was back in the day. Every generation thinks the world is going downhill from where they stand. Overall, the world is a far better place to be now than it was in Jesus' day.

 

[marksman007]

What are the equivalents for hetrosexuals?

I don't think the Advocate or the Homosexual Men's Health Project are too worrried about what normal men do.

 

[marksman007]

Thankyou to everyone who is giving my remarks additional coverage by posting them again and again. Much appreciated.