Homosexuality is wrong....so you fail

[allhart]

I dunno all what the OP said originally, but being a man of a homosexual nature myself, I cannot rightly approve of the way he posted it. Also, the title of the thread itself is an example of the logical fallacy Non Sequitur, I believe (but correct me if I am indeed wrong).

Just because this Bible book says something bad about homosexuals does not automatically make it wrong, in my eyes. I apologize if this offends anyone, but I could honestly care less what that book says. However, please keep in mind that's how I feel and I do not intend to offend anyone.

Also, really, I'm pretty sure we "evil" homosexuals have heard this Straw Man argument before.

Is there evil? Is there good? If you say yes. Then by you differentiating between the two you deposit a moral law and by that you have deposited a moral law giver and that is whom you are trying to disprove!

Lets see if you acknowledge the logic in this statement, not understand it, acknowledge it. People hold dear to them the unseen. Things that are important to people are unseen. Grace, love desire, greed, envy, intellect MORALITY GOD etc

Jesus said "I am the way, truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me". The people of this world build there live in lies. What if your eyes lied to you, depth perception and you run into walls. Your body lied to you about feeling pain you wouldn't know how to protect yourself. What if your body lied about hot and could? What you thought was could was extremely hot. Shwers food would be a problem......

By the way no one sees themselves as evil, not you, nor did Hitler!

Can people be right and be mean and can people be politically correct and be wrong? I say yes, but you say

 

[Belk]

Is there evil? Is there good? If you say yes. Then by you differentiating between the two you deposit a moral law and by that you have deposited a moral law giver and that is whom you are trying to disprove!

You skipped the step where you show how being able to differentiate between good and evil requires there to be a moral law.

Lets see if you acknowledge the logic in this statement, not understand it, acknowledge it. People hold dear to them the unseen. Things that are important to people are unseen. Grace, love desire, greed, envy, intellect MORALITY GOD etc

Yes, but simply because people hold these things dear does not mean they are correct.

Jesus said "I am the way, truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me". The people of this world build there live in lies. What if your eyes lied to you, depth perception and you run into walls. Your body lied to you about feeling pain you wouldn't know how to protect yourself. What if your body lied about hot and could? What you thought was could was extremely hot. Shwers food would be a problem......

OK, what if it did (or does, there are a myriad of conditions where your body does lie to you). Not sure I am getting your point with this?

By the way no one sees themselves as evil, not you, nor did Hitler!

No, there are some who see themselves as evil. Are they correct? How does one quantify evil to see if they measure up. At what threshold does one become evil?

Can people be right and be mean and can people be politically correct and be wrong? I say yes, but you say

Of course people can be correct and be mean. Just seems to me you will get a lot more people to listen if you are correct and polite. You catch more flies with honey then vinegar type of thing.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Is there evil? Is there good? If you say yes. Then by you differentiating between the two you deposit a moral law and by that you have deposited a moral law giver and that is whom you are trying to disprove!

Is there A? Is there B? By saying yes, you prove that there is someone who set A and B. Actually that doesn't work...

Lets see if you acknowledge the logic in this statement, not understand it, acknowledge it. People hold dear to them the unseen. Things that are important to people are unseen. Grace, love desire, greed, envy, intellect MORALITY GOD etc

Jesus said "I am the way, truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me". The people of this world build there live in lies. What if your eyes lied to you, depth perception and you run into walls. Your body lied to you about feeling pain you wouldn't know how to protect yourself. What if your body lied about hot and could? What you thought was could was extremely hot. Shwers food would be a problem......

By the way no one sees themselves as evil, not you, nor did Hitler!

What about the people who do see themselves as evil, but who God keeps saying are not evil (at least, not for the same reasons)?

 

[david_x]

Is there A? Is there B? By saying yes, you prove that there is someone who set A and B. Actually that doesn't work...

What about the people who do see themselves as evil, but who God keeps saying are not evil (at least, not for the same reasons)?

Seeing themselves as evil? Sounds like someone ready to accept Christ.

If you ever find you're doing evil things, ask Christ to help and He can see you through. With time and commitment He can even help you get rid of them.

 

[ArgentBear]

Intent is prior to content.

Let me ask you this question my friend...... Can you know or understand what you read without an introduction to a book? Can you know or understand what you read without knowing the author?
Before you can understand morality of the Bible you have to know the author of the Bible, God! As Christians we aren't to define people by their brokenness or to judge , but if we find our-selfs outside the fence of God's will. What is his family to do? Put us out, right? We are to be loving, but telling your right when you are wrong does more harm than good. Jesus told people how it was that's why the Pharisees had Him crucified. All ideas and actions have consequences. For the here and the now and the here after, everything is spiritual.

The one thing we all have in-common is a self image problem. We are all guilty! Just some hide it better than others. The one that wrote the OP remember that the one that judges is judged with the same intensity.....You are to rasp. We "All" are living under God's Great Grace, for now people.

Is it moral to present false and misleading information about homosexuals?

 

[marksman007]

It is quite common in the homosexual press in Australia to find similar remarks. For example, one writer says that to assume monogamy is “a part of every healthy relationship is just plain wrong”. He continues, “Let’s face it. Monogamy is a bizarre human invention. Sure, some animals practice it but usually when survival is tough, and teamwork is required to eat. In fact, it’s a human invention designed (on a cynical level) for the possession of women.”http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=53174732#_edn1

Or as Australian homosexual activist Dennis Altman puts it: “Large-scale luxurious pleasure palaces where everyone is potentially an immediate sexual partner are a common sexual fantasy; only for gay men they are a commonplace reality.”[ii] Elsewhere Altman writes, “monogamy is not a realistic choice for many of us . . . we don’t find one partner sufficiently fulfilling. People who argue that there would be no problem if all gay men would just be monogamous are ignoring both medical and emotional realities; with an unknown number of people already exposed to ‘the virus’ and an unknown incubation period, such advice is just too restrictive.”[iii]

Altman goes even further, saying that “it does seem clear that among gay men a long-lasting monogamous relationship is almost unknown. Indeed both gay women and gay men tend to be involved in what might be called multiple relationships, though of somewhat different kinds.”[iv]

He continues by making the startling admission that “in practice most gay males accept that fidelity to a relationship is not to be measured in sexual terms. A large-scale study of gay male couples in San Diego concluded that every couple together more than five years had outside sexual contacts as a recognized part of the relationship.”[v]

http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=53174732#_ednref1 Ross Jacobs, “Is monogamy the death knell of relationships?,” MCV, 9 January 2004, p. 6.

[ii] Dennis Altman, The Homosexualization of America, p 17.

[iii] Dennis Altman, AIDS in the Mind of America. New York: Anchor Press/Doubleday, 1986, p 159.

[iv] The Homosexualization of America, p. 187.

[v] Ibid., p. 188.

 

[marksman007]

ACTS 4:29-31 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your Word, reach out your hand to heal, and grant that wonders and miracles may be performed through the name of your holy Servant Jesus." When they finished praying, the place where they were meeting was shaken. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to proclaim God's message with boldness.

 

[allhart]

Is it moral to present false and misleading information about homosexuals?

Quite demonizing the people that hold the view or preforming character assassinations on them and stick to the arguments.....

 

[lawtonfogle]

Seeing themselves as evil? Sounds like someone ready to accept Christ.

If you ever find you're doing evil things, ask Christ to help and He can see you through. With time and commitment He can even help you get rid of them.

Your are confusing someone who engages in evil and accepts being evil with someone who sees part of his/herself as evil, and while they dislike it, God is not going to help, because He does not see it as evil. The church is so use to people saying something is not wrong when God says it is. The reverse, when someone truly finds something wrong, but when God says it is not, is not often seen (at least not openly).

 

[ArgentBear]

It is quite common in the homosexual press in Australia to find similar remarks. For example, one writer says that to assume monogamy is “a part of every healthy relationship is just plain wrong”. He continues, “Let’s face it. Monogamy is a bizarre human invention. Sure, some animals practice it but usually when survival is tough, and teamwork is required to eat. In fact, it’s a human invention designed (on a cynical level) for the possession of women.”

Or as Australian homosexual activist Dennis Altman puts it: “Large-scale luxurious pleasure palaces where everyone is potentially an immediate sexual partner are a common sexual fantasy; only for gay men they are a commonplace reality.”[ii] Elsewhere Altman writes, “monogamy is not a realistic choice for many of us . . . we don’t find one partner sufficiently fulfilling. People who argue that there would be no problem if all gay men would just be monogamous are ignoring both medical and emotional realities; with an unknown number of people already exposed to ‘the virus’ and an unknown incubation period, such advice is just too restrictive.”[iii]

Altman goes even further, saying that “it does seem clear that among gay men a long-lasting monogamous relationship is almost unknown. Indeed both gay women and gay men tend to be involved in what might be called multiple relationships, though of somewhat different kinds.”[iv]

He continues by making the startling admission that “in practice most gay males accept that fidelity to a relationship is not to be measured in sexual terms. A large-scale study of gay male couples in San Diego concluded that every couple together more than five years had outside sexual contacts as a recognized part of the relationship.”[v]

Ross Jacobs, “Is monogamy the death knell of relationships?,” MCV, 9 January 2004, p. 6.

[ii] Dennis Altman, The Homosexualization of America, p 17.

[iii] Dennis Altman, AIDS in the Mind of America. New York: Anchor Press/Doubleday, 1986, p 159.

[iv] The Homosexualization of America, p. 187.

[v] Ibid., p. 188.

Lets see…
An author no one has heard of.
A quote that doesn’t appear to come from anywhere
Having nothing to do with your continued unsupported claims that somehow gay men are more promiscuous.
Well that IS convincing…

 

[david_x]

Your are confusing someone who engages in evil and accepts being evil with someone who sees part of his/herself as evil, and while they dislike it, God is not going to help, because He does not see it as evil. The church is so use to people saying something is not wrong when God says it is. The reverse, when someone truly finds something wrong, but when God says it is not, is not often seen (at least not openly).

So what do these people see as evil that God does not see as evil?

 

[ArgentBear]

Quite demonizing the people that hold the view or preforming character assassinations on them and stick to the arguments.....

You mean like confronting false and misleading information presented here with the data from the actual studies being misrepresented?

So you are saying that presenting facts when false statements are made is bad?

Back to my question - is it moral to present false or misleading information about homosexuals? You seem to be saying that it is indeed moral to present false witness…so long as the false witness is about a minority. Please clarify this is what you are truly saying.

 

[allhart]

You mean like confronting false and misleading information presented here with the data from the actual studies being misrepresented?

So you are saying that presenting facts when false statements are made is bad?

Back to my question - is it moral to present false or misleading information about homosexuals? You seem to be saying that it is indeed moral to present false witness…so long as the false witness is about a minority. Please clarify this is what you are truly saying.

What do you mean by that? Can you clear this up for me? Where did you come to your conclusion of morality and is it based on feeling or in logic?

For my morality is based on "God's" righteousness and Holiness the author of the Bible and I have no stake in it. For I'm saved and I'm not judging only sharing..... Self control and self sacrifice. I don't live for self ,but for the eternal perspective, my friend and there lies the big difference. The Bible which is God breathed, spoke has the truth. For of this world. The world is of lies......and is morally corruption. As I have said we all have a self image problem "guilty" but some hide it better than others. The only difference between the saved and the nonbeliever is I know I'm corrupted, however; I live for the good. Man live and loves darkness.
Morality is based in human society , moral issues, social issues and human intercourse......even history.

 

[b&wpac4]

The only difference between the saved and the nonbeliever is I know I'm corrupted, however; I live for the good..

That's odd, you wouldn't consider me saved, yet last Monday I stood with a few hundred people confessing sins before God and hoping that I will do better next year.

 

[allhart]

That's odd, you wouldn't consider me saved, yet last Monday I stood with a few hundred people confessing sins before God and hoping that I will do better next year.

I didn't say that, behave, please quite injecting words and your perspectives of thoughts as though they are mine. If you are living for the force of good. Who is Jesus?

 

[b&wpac4]

Who is Jesus?

My honest answer:

Rabbi that lives ~2000 years ago. Thought the end of the World was coming. Was put to death by the Romans for sedition because he constantly spoke of a new kingdom coming, and the Romans didn't like that.

 

[b&wpac4]

Actually, I pulled this thread offtopic. Sorry for that. Everybody carry on with the topic.

 

[allhart]

My honest answer:

Rabbi that lives ~2000 years ago. Thought the end of the World was coming. Was put to death by the Romans for sedition because he constantly spoke of a new kingdom coming, and the Romans didn't like that.

Lets look at Jesus. Jesus was executed for who He said He was, right? God....

Now Jesus was one of three things, but he can't be all three. 1) Jesus believed He was God and really He wasn't. Making Him a lunatic, crazy or a nuts, therefore He can't be a good moral teacher, but Jesus moved towards reality, not away from it. 2) Jesus said He was God and new He wasn't making Him a liar, but look at all the claims He made true, therefore; He can't be a good moral teacher. Thirdly He was who He said He was. (I AM)

 

[b&wpac4]

Lets look at Jesus. Jesus was executed for who He said He was, right? God....

Now Jesus was one of three things, but he can't be all three. 1) Jesus believed He was God and really He wasn't. Making Him a lunatic, crazy or a nuts, therefore He can't be a good moral teacher, but Jesus moved towards reality, not away from it. 2) Jesus said He was God and new He wasn't making Him a liar. Which He can't be a good moral teacher. Thirdly He was who He said He was.

Check your PM box.

 

[DayusXMakina]

Is there evil? Is there good? If you say yes. Then by you differentiating between the two you deposit a moral law and by that you have deposited a moral law giver and that is whom you are trying to disprove!

I have only two words to say to this. Non Sequitur.

Lets see if you acknowledge the logic in this statement, not understand it, acknowledge it. People hold dear to them the unseen. Things that are important to people are unseen. Grace, love desire, greed, envy, intellect MORALITY GOD etc

There was a logical fallacy, I will admit, but I still can't see the logic you claim is there. No offense, and hopefully none taken on this side of the argument, but if you would like to get your point across to me, please put it in a way that does not require a big ol' leap in logic.

Jesus said "I am the way, truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me".

No, yer book says that. I personally do not know if he really said this or not. So I myself cannot assume it is true based off a book written by various authors, which may or may not be true. Also, Argumentum ad verecundiam.

The people of this world build there live in lies. What if your eyes lied to you, depth perception and you run into walls. Your body lied to you about feeling pain you wouldn't know how to protect yourself. What if your body lied about hot and could? What you thought was could was extremely hot. Shwers food would be a problem......

Yes, it's called being ill. What are you tryin to say with this statement? I don't think I follow.

By the way no one sees themselves as evil, not you, nor did Hitler!

I see myself as evil, so I think this statement is disproven. Also, Argumentum ad hominem.

Can people be right and be mean and can people be politically correct and be wrong? I say yes, but you say

I have never once said "???", have I? Please refrain from puttin words into my mouth. I take offense when people feel the need to do that in order to win an argument. I know you mean well, but please think about what yer postin and how it affects me.