homosexuality is an abomination

[ObjectiveReality]

God loves all homosexuals! However, He hates the deeds of homosexuality because they are sinful. God did not create any human being as a homosexual. They are not born that way, just as murderers are not born that way. However, these spirits can be transmitted to children, especially if someone who had this demonic spirit seduced or raped a child--or even if they were close to gay people. These demons can also be imparted to others through unholy sexual acts.

You really can not prove this, we do not know what causes homosexuality. If you are born homosexual, it could be viewed as a call to abstinance rather than some sort of mistake by God.

If it's a sin for being unnatural then why aren't mentally retarded people sinners? People with cancer? AIDS?

Quite simple really, that is out of their control.

 

[ObjectiveReality]

Alrighty. Yet again the 'Christian' calls me an idiot AND a fool in a single post. I guess you will be begging forgiveness for your intolerance later.

I did not call you either, I was just questioning why you felt the need to add that it was all logical to you, because as I pointed out earlier everyone feels the same way.

I would be interested to know who exactly you think is behind hate crimes against homosexuals. Let's see. It has to be someone or some group of people who hates homosexuals for some reason. Who could that be? Generally, atheists don't hate homosexuals. Why? Because the Bible is the source cited for the hatred and oppression. Remove religious texts and you remove the reason. If homosexuals were loved and accepted in this 'Christian' society, then we would have no hate crimes against them. Why do you think those who killed Matthew Sheppard killed him? They hated him. Why? He was an abomination (as taught to them their whole lives). I've spent plenty of time in church hearing it myself. Plenty of time with Christians listening to the hate.

You really do have an anti-Christian agenda. I don't know who you hang around with but has anyone on this thread said that they hate homosexuals? I don't. Anyone who feels threatened or mislead by a homosexual would probably be the first ones to commit a hate crime. And again just because someone would think the actions of homosexuals is sinful does not mean they would commit a much more sinful act of killing another human being. I don't know which portions of the Bible you have read, but it is not the source of hatred and oppression except to a person with a very sick and twisted mind. It may be the source of hatred toward certain actions, but certainly not other people. If religion was removed, there would still be hate crimes against homosexuals. It is unnatural and if you disagree it is at least viewed to be by a large majority of people. You will not find a single major religion that condones murder, and almost all religion strives toward tolerance, love, and happiness. If you want to turn a blind eye to 99% of religion and twist the other 1% to prove your own agenda then that is your prerogative. However, I assure you it is neither reasonable or logical.

Thanks for tellin' me to look up chastity. Some of usn's is jist too blamed dum t' unnerstand what yer a-sayin without r dicshunary.

This was not directed at you or anyone. When people hear the word chastity they usually think refraining from sex. Another meaning of the word is treating sex with a proper reverence, and that was my only point. Im sorry you feel everything to be a personal attack.

 

[draper]

Quite simple really, that is out of their control.

Right much like it is with homosexuals.

 

[Firscherscherling]

I did not call you either, I was just questioning why you felt the need to add that it was all logical to you, because as I pointed out earlier everyone feels the same way.


You really do have an anti-Christian agenda. I don't know who you hang around with but has anyone on this thread said that they hate homosexuals? I don't. Anyone who feels threatened or mislead by a homosexual would probably be the first ones to commit a hate crime. And again just because someone would think the actions of homosexuals is sinful does not mean they would commit a much more sinful act of killing another human being. I don't know which portions of the Bible you have read, but it is not the source of hatred and oppression except to a person with a very sick and twisted mind. It may be the source of hatred toward certain actions, but certainly not other people. If religion was removed, there would still be hate crimes against homosexuals. It is unnatural and if you disagree it is at least viewed to be by a large majority of people. You will not find a single major religion that condones murder, and almost all religion strives toward tolerance, love, and happiness. If you want to turn a blind eye to 99% of religion and twist the other 1% to prove your own agenda then that is your prerogative. However, I assure you it is neither reasonable or logical.


This was not directed at you or anyone. When people hear the word chastity they usually think refraining from sex. Another meaning of the word is treating sex with a proper reverence, and that was my only point. Im sorry you feel everything to be a personal attack.

Just to refresh you- you calling me ignorant:
"some of the sweeping generalizations you make are very ignorant indeed"

You callng me a fool:
"Im glad you find your own thoughts to be logical, Im sure even the greatest fool would think the same."

I really want to know who in our Christian nation speaks out against homosexuality. The very basis of the arguments against it is religious teaching. Where else is it? Please show me?

Read back thorugh this thread and you will clealy see it. Homosexuals are posessed by deamons and being punished by God. They are all liars making excuses to justify themselves..and so on. If someone says to me, "I don't hate those demon-posessed, lying, unnatural, excuse-making abominations! I absolutely LOVE 'em!" the message I get is hate not love. I know absolutely NO atheist who speaks out against homosexuality as being wrong and unnatural. We would need the Bible or other religious texts for that. That removes the motivation for the hate crime.

 

[ObjectiveReality]

Right much like it is with homosexuals.

Was going to edit my other post but since you posted this, upon further thought those things are not unnatural at all. So whether or out it is out of control is irrelevant in the context of this thread.

However, I agree with you, if indeed you are born homosexual than it is quite out of their control as far as their sexual orientation goes. However, their actions are quite within their control. I have stated very clearly that I do not believe that homosexuality is a sin, but rather the sexual actions between two people of the same sex.

 

[ObjectiveReality]

Just to refresh you- you calling me ignorant:
"some of the sweeping generalizations you make are very ignorant indeed"

You callng me a fool:
"Im glad you find your own thoughts to be logical, Im sure even the greatest fool would think the same."

I really want to know who in our Christian nation speaks out against homosexuality. The very basis of the arguments against it is religious teaching. Where else is it? Please show me?

Read back thorugh this thread and you will clealy see it. Homosexuals are posessed by deamons and being punished by God. They are all liars making excuses to justify themselves..and so on. If someone says to me, "I don't hate those demon-posessed, lying, unnatural, excuse-making abominations! I absolutely LOVE 'em!" the message I get is hate not love. I know absolutely NO atheist who speaks out against homosexuality as being wrong and unnatural. We would need the Bible or other religious texts for that. That removes the motivation for the hate crime.

Do you even read my posts? I didnt call you ignorant, I called your generalizations ignorant. I didnt call you a fool, I was just making a point that claiming you think yourself to be logical is a moot point because even the greatest fool would do the same. Again, I am sorry you assume everything to be a personal attack against you.

Im sorry, but the opinions of one person does not reflect the opinions of all Christians, Im sorry to tell you we do not all think the same way. I didnt read his entire post but some of his thoughts seemed to be pretty extreme. I am not Catholic but you will find that predominantly among Catholic moral thinkers that they do not believe homosexuality in and of itself to be sinful because they are unsure of how it is caused. Only the actions are considered sinful.

All your arguments are based on generalizations and stereotypes which are by their very definition incorrect. You claim Christians hate gays and all Atheists dont. Therefore, Christianity must be the root of all hate crime. Continue thinking that is logical if you like, but it sounds very ludicrous to me.

 

[ACougar]

Man is given free will. All sin can not be justified by claiming man has a sinful nature.

If man is born homosexual, then homosexuality is indeed natural...however that does nothing to prove that the act of homosexuality is a natural act. It is not procreative and therefore can not be natural.

You stated that Sin is against nature and then in the next paragraph state that nature is sinful. I can understand why you belive it is sinful according to the Bible. If it is against Christian teachings then obviously it's something a good Christian shouldn't do. I do not think it makes sense to say it is against nature, because as I understand it... you believe nature to be sinful.

My perspective is a little differant from yours in that Nature is my Bible, the Christian Bible has no more authority for me than the Koran or the Bagvad Ghita has for you. It is not uncommon to see animals engaging in "homosexual" behavior. While this type of "Union" is not sacred in the way that union between a man and a woman is, I see no reason to believe it is against nature.

 

[Mom4Christ]

Have any of you "pro-gay" (for lack of a better word) ever read the Bible? So many above posts tell us that homosexuality is wrong.

There has been NO studies that have proven homosexuality to be an inborn traits. However, there has been many that have proven inconclusive or they cannot find any link that homosexuality is something people are born with.

We have already proven that handicaps and deformities are defects in the genes to you, Draper, who actually compared being born gay to being born with a handicap. How can you even compare the two?

Where is there legitimate information about these so-called studies that prove being gay is something people can be born with?

I do not discriminate against gays. But I also would not choose to be friends with one, work with one, etc. I am trying to live my life to please God and I choose not to add willful sinners into my life. I would not be friends with a drunk, a drug addict, or a prostitute. Or would you call that discrimination as well?

 

[CrossMovement]

You really can not prove this, we do not know what causes homosexuality. If you are born homosexual, it could be viewed as a call to abstinance rather than some sort of mistake by God.

Quite simple really, that is out of their control.

Why would god created somebody Homosexuals ?? If all the people were homosexual , The children wouldn't have existed.

 

[CrossMovement]

You really can not prove this, we do not know what causes homosexuality. If you are born homosexual, it could be viewed as a call to abstinance rather than some sort of mistake by God.

Quite simple really, that is out of their control.

God in my opinion would'nt make a mystake.

 

[CrossMovement]

Alrighty. Yet again the 'Christian' calls me an idiot AND a fool in a single post. I guess you will be begging forgiveness for your intolerance later.

And before I could even answer, posts 76 and 77 pop up to prove my point so very well. Where do we build our stereotypes about Christian people? From reading post after post just like these that talk of homosexuals being posessed by deamons (deamons they can pass to their children no less!) and diseases like AIDS being created by God to kill them off. And from listening to sermons and discussions of same.

I would be interested to know who exactly you think is behind hate crimes against homosexuals. Let's see. It has to be someone or some group of people who hates homosexuals for some reason. Who could that be? Generally, atheists don't hate homosexuals. Why? Because the Bible is the source cited for the hatred and oppression. Remove religious texts and you remove the reason. If homosexuals were loved and accepted in this 'Christian' society, then we would have no hate crimes against them. Why do you think those who killed Matthew Sheppard killed him? They hated him. Why? He was an abomination (as taught to them their whole lives). I've spent plenty of time in church hearing it myself. Plenty of time with Christians listening to the hate.

Thanks for tellin' me to look up chastity. Some of usn's is jist too blamed dum t' unnerstand what yer a-sayin without r dicshunary.

It totally cracks me up to hear y'all say that oral sex, among other things, is unnatural, but that kissing and grabbing your partner's breasts is natural. Hilarious! And I though a mouth was for eating and breasts for feeding the young. You guys are amazing at justifying yourselves. Truly amazing! OK, let the insults fly!

AIDS being created by God to kill them off. AIDS has not been created by GOD it a repercussion of what you do. You are not born handicap or on a wheelchair. It's the repercussion of your anceters and what they done in the past that will have you like that. If I can find the verse I will show you. But the Father or my friends who his a Pastor is not here now , so it will be a little bit long , but i'll try to find it.

Don't get fire at me simple opinion

 

[ObjectiveReality]

You stated that Sin is against nature and then in the next paragraph state that nature is sinful. I can understand why you belive it is sinful according to the Bible. If it is against Christian teachings then obviously it's something a good Christian shouldn't do. I do not think it makes sense to say it is against nature, because as I understand it... you believe nature to be sinful.

W-what? Obviously you have some sort of pre-determined mindset about my views and instead of reading my posts are instead throwing out random points. Where did I say that?

Where is there legitimate information about these so-called studies that prove being gay is something people can be born with?

Where are the studies that prove it is not something you are born with? You are making statements that you can not prove and then justifying them by the fact that no one can prove otherwise. That has to be a logical fallacy?

I do not discriminate against gays. But I also would not choose to be friends with one, work with one, etc. I am trying to live my life to please God and I choose not to add willful sinners into my life. I would not be friends with a drunk, a drug addict, or a prostitute. Or would you call that discrimination as well?

And yet Jesus made a point of hanging out with these exact people...the sinners, because he loved all of them and wanted to help them along the path of righteousness. It was the Pharisees that were too high and mighty to interact with these people, and the Pharisees are not exactly looked upon in a positive light within the Bible.

Why would god created somebody Homosexuals ?? If all the people were homosexual , The children wouldn't have existed.

God would not exactly have had to create them, it could have been a genetic mutation for example. Do you also claim that God created disease? hate? suffering? They are a by-product of original sin and I do not see why homosexuality couldnt be in the same category.

God in my opinion would'nt make a mystake

I was providing an alternative to homosexuality being a mistake. You may want to reread my post although I do agree with this particular point.

 

[wblastyn]

I really wish people would stop using the Bibel as a science book. You get ignorant statements like "gays can change!" "gays are unnatural" "homosexuality is a choice!" when you do that. The Bible is a book about our relationship with God, not science. You people who think the Bible is a science book need to listen to Augustine - he said you should go to an astronomer to learn about astronomy, not the Bible otherwise you'll look like an idiot and non-Christians will think all Christians are idiots.

As for God making mistakes, evolution got God off the hook for design flaws in creation. So much in fact that Christians jumped on it before scientists had actually accepted it.

 

[Icystwolf]

Ah, so now, not only are gay people wrong for being homosexual, they're also liars. Strange, I trust them to be honest more than I trust you to be correct.



You set up impossible criteria to meet, then. You will never read a scientific report proving any cause of homosexuality; science cannot prove anything directly, only falsify. However, you will--and do--see scientific articles indicating stong correlations between certain biological characteristics and homosexuality. That you find them unconvincing is of no import.

Your allegations are upon your own interpertation, make sense of your own thoughts and have them distinguished with my thoughts before you make anymore allegations that sound so ridiculous, that it's not worth my time probing your ideas about me.

And also, I'm not arrogrant or ignorant, I read up a lot of information before I give my opinion, your statement is completely based on the fact that I think homosexuality is an abdomination. If I find a report that proves gays are gays from birth, and the standards of procedure is met, then my opinion would change.

In summary, stop making personal attacks of something in me that don't exist!

 

[Icystwolf]

I really wish people would stop using the Bibel as a science book. You get ignorant statements like "gays can change!" "gays are unnatural" "homosexuality is a choice!" when you do that. The Bible is a book about our relationship with God, not science. You people who think the Bible is a science book need to listen to Augustine - he said you should go to an astronomer to learn about astronomy, not the Bible otherwise you'll look like an idiot and non-Christians will think all Christians are idiots.

As for God making mistakes, evolution got God off the hook for design flaws in creation. So much in fact that Christians jumped on it before scientists had actually accepted it.

What is so ignorant that gays can change. I just typed up at least 4 posts proving that if I can change, and my friend can also change. Hence it's a choice. If it remains permanent then it's not a choice.

You need to get into the habit of thinking that choice is not a switch but a lifetime worth of decisions.

And here I am defending the Bible, the Bible is part of science. Science originated from the church. It may not be specific in terms of geneolgy but it does give us some details that correspond with modern science which is what I find amazing.

In terms of homosexuality, it states clearly that homosexuality is wrong, else the message that sodom was destroyed is pointless in the Bible.

And for those that keep arguing that it's not in the Bible, I say to you this, stop bending the argument to fit your cause. I can see right through you, because I've been debating over 6yrs and I can see easily that most of your arguments are completely bent to fit a cause. In otherwords, your confusing the heck out of a lot of people to prove your point...doesn't work on some people who can see through that trick through experience.

And if you want to keep pulling out personal attacks wblastyn, then I'm going to have to start ignoring not just your irrelevent post, but all your posts.

 

[Philosoft]

What is so ignorant that gays can change. I just typed up at least 4 posts proving that if I can change, and my friend can also change. Hence it's a choice. If it remains permanent then it's not a choice.

Two cases equals a proof now?

Here's the reality: Most homosexuals remain homosexual throughout their adult lives. A few become heterosexual for one reason or another.

Your interpretation is that the few are the representative truth - that the majority, who remain homosexual, are delusional or willfully countermand natural orientation.

Here's another interpretation: The few who became heterosexual were never homosexual in the first place. They're the ones who chose to engage in homosexual behavior, but they were heterosexual the whole time. Most other homosexuals are innately homosexual.

Now, one of these interpretations is supportable by logic and data. The other is supportable by, "Me and my friend were gay but now we're not."

 

[Icystwolf]

Two cases equals a proof now?

Here's the reality: Most homosexuals remain homosexual throughout their adult lives. A few become heterosexual for one reason or another.

Your interpretation is that the few are the representative truth - that the majority, who remain homosexual, are delusional or willfully countermand natural orientation.

What logic is there? How do you know that the few you call might be of a majority, except they don't admit to it. How do you know if theres a large number of heteros that were gay before, but never practised it?

Here's another interpretation: The few who became heterosexual were never homosexual in the first place. They're the ones who chose to engage in homosexual behavior, but they were heterosexual the whole time. Most other homosexuals are innately homosexual.

Again, you don't know that full statistics and neither do I. If this person who has been practising homosexuality for 15yrs, and he's around 40yrs old now....and starting a family.

I'm still awaiting for the scientist to bring out a report that they found the homosexuality gene...otherwise it's still a choice taken during Highschool.

Now, one of these interpretations is supportable by logic and data. The other is supportable by, "Me and my friend were gay but now we're not."

First of all, logic is by no means a good enough argument, because all logic can be bent. Like the speed of light cannot be bent. But UNSW phys department has proved Einstein wrong...

 

[Kyubi-no-Youko]

You know they have yet to find an 'eye colour gene'. I guess that means eye colour is a choice. Maybe there isn't a homosexual gene. Maybe there are a number of genes in a certain pattern or something that causes it. Whatever the cause/s, science agrees it is biological.

As for changing from homosexual to heterosexual. Sorry, that's impossible. Not that people haven't tried. A person cannot change one's sexual orientation. Think about it this way.

Look at your hand. Now, change it into a pickle.

You can't, right? It is illogical and impossible and downright silly. The same can be said for..ermm..degaying.

You can convince yourself you are now heterosexual, you could even live life as a hetero and be happy as one. That doesn't change your sexual orientation.

Same can be said for the hand-pickle. You could convince yourself beyond the shadow of a doubt that your hand is, in fact, a pickle. Does that make your hand a pickle? No.

It has been proven in studies that 'degaying' has yet to be successful. Fully successful, and is often more harmful than helpful. In such 'succesful' cases, homosexuals admitted to having to maintain homosexual fantasies while having sex with the opposite sex.

Hey, if they find a way that is not harmful and homosexuals really want to change I have nothing against that. The same way I have nothing against a person wanting a sex change. Right now though, whatever the cause of homosexuality may be, it is impossible to change one's sexual orientation completely.

And I think some of you are confusing 'natural' for 'normal' or 'ethical'. Homosexual is natural because it occurs in nature. However, by society's standards it is not normal. At least, by some socities. In others it is accepted and even encouraged.

 

[CrossMovement]

W-what? Obviously you have some sort of pre-determined mindset about my views and instead of reading my posts are instead throwing out random points. Where did I say that?

Where are the studies that prove it is not something you are born with? You are making statements that you can not prove and then justifying them by the fact that no one can prove otherwise. That has to be a logical fallacy?

And yet Jesus made a point of hanging out with these exact people...the sinners, because he loved all of them and wanted to help them along the path of righteousness. It was the Pharisees that were too high and mighty to interact with these people, and the Pharisees are not exactly looked upon in a positive light within the Bible.

God would not exactly have had to create them, it could have been a genetic mutation for example. Do you also claim that God created disease? hate? suffering? They are a by-product of original sin and I do not see why homosexuality couldnt be in the same category.

I was providing an alternative to homosexuality being a mistake. You may want to reread my post although I do agree with this particular point.

so murder could be a Mutation ?? i think pornography , perverted sex , and all the other thing that refer to sin in the sex have generate homosexuality. I did not made myself entirely clear. Disease comes from the past sin it's a consequence of that. Heart problem comes from tabacco and other things.

Adam and Eve weren't created bad but the sin they done have made a consequence for them.

So I think that it his the consequence who leads to other sin

 

[CrossMovement]

Homosexuality for me is not an error it's a repercussion of the past sin and of the behavior of our ancestor. My opinion til it can be prove false