homosexuality is an abomination

[Icystwolf]

Whatever 2 or more consenting adults wanna do in the privacy of thier own homes is no bussiness of the government. If a member of your religious group is violating the tenants of your religion then you simply deal with that internally. Imagine if Muslims saught to impose thier morality on CHristians via the government. Perhaps you believe that whatever religion is in the majority should have the right to impose thier morals on the minority. If that's the case then we'll just have to agree that we disagree. If on the other hand you believe in treating others as you would want to be treated, you have no choice but to allow each person to make thier own decisions regarding what's moral and acceptable behavior.

True true, as a Christian, I don't associate too much with whats outside. It's what I call the world, I don't belong to the world, but to God.
But it's those that get too close and tell us to change that becomes a problem. Like the protestors outside of church.

But I think this debate in here is more about whether a gay could change to be hectro. And I'm saying yes, and that it is an abdomination of nature.
But that does not mean I extinguish it's life, it's just that I don't, as a Christian, find that acceptable.
It's my opinion, no one is allowed to change that except myself,God and Jesus!

 

[Nathan David]

Homosexuality is a choice. I have found other women to be beautiful, but never wanted to be with them.

You just contradicted yourself. Did you choose not to want to be with those women, or is that just the way you feel?

If everyone was gay, how would we, humankind, survive?

Do you really think there is any chance of everyone being gay? You said yourself you never wanted to be with a woman. Do you think there is anything that could influence you otherwise? Is there anything that would make all straight people gay? How would that work?

No one is born gay.

The thing is, every single gay person I have ever talked to says they were born gay, that they have always been gay, they have never been attracted to someone of the opposite sex. So, who am I going to believe about homosexuality, a straight person or a gay person?

 

[Icystwolf]

The Bible never mentions homosexual feelings, it is always the act of having sex with the same gender, therefore someone being born gay is not a problem, but acting on them might be (I'm not entirely sure anymore, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of sexual perversion, the men tried to rape angels, and paul could be refering to temple worship in Romans).

Again thats not the point I'm basing it on. Your talking about sin the commiting of sin. Thats a complete different topic all together. Clearly if you have homosexual relationship it is sinful.

I'm talking about, a gay person changing to a hectrosexual, it's possible. The whole topic is about the practise of homosexuality as being an abdomination, which I agree to that. Because nature dosen't support it, else all homosexuals would have to be unisex, not male or female organs.

 

[Icystwolf]

The thing is, every single gay person I have ever talked to says they were born gay, that they have always been gay, they have never been attracted to someone of the opposite sex. So, who am I going to believe about homosexuality, a straight person or a gay person?

I recon you need to believe in the truth. How would you know if a gay man person had been attracted to girls, but later changed to guy? You don't know that, they can make things up.

If I were you, I wouldn't believe in either of them. Because the fact is, NO SCIENTIFIC REPORT IS OUT TO PROVE PEOPLE ARE BORN GAY...
get it?
Either it's in there gene or some chemical imbalance, but until I see that scientific report, I may accept being born gay as an argument, but I won't believe that being born gay actually exists.

I'm just not convinced with the lack of evidence seen so far.

 

[Icystwolf]

Don't you think if that were true than a lot of people would change to get annoying Christian off their back.

Oh and it's hetero, not hectro.

Well, if you like hetero, then lets have hetro as the spelling. Dosen't matter me, most people get it...it's just less offensive as the word straight.

 

[ACougar]

True true, as a Christian, I don't associate too much with whats outside. It's what I call the world, I don't belong to the world, but to God.
But it's those that get too close and tell us to change that becomes a problem. Like the protestors outside of church.

But I think this debate in here is more about whether a gay could change to be hectro. And I'm saying yes, and that it is an abdomination of nature.
But that does not mean I extinguish it's life, it's just that I don't, as a Christian, find that acceptable.
It's my opinion, no one is allowed to change that except myself,God and Jesus!

Well I'm not a Christian but I'm going out on a limb here... DOn't you believe that man has a Sinful Nature? If man is given a sinful nature then how is this sin against nature?

 

[Firscherscherling]

Homosexuality is a choice. I have found other women to be beautiful, but never wanted to be with them. That is just wrong. If everyone was gay, how would we, humankind, survive? It is COMPLETELY UNNATURAL. No one is born gay. That simply allows gays to feel better...like they have no choice. They make excuses for themselves. Men are meant to be with women. God designed us that way. I don't believe in sex ONLY for procreation, so don't get me wrong. Have all the fun you want with your opposite-sex husband or wife. But same-sex partners? That is completely against God's will.

Whew! I've just about had it with this thread, we are headed back to square-one as always. However, I was thinking about somehting last night. Clearly there are those of us who are gay and those of us who are straight. We on the extremes can see very easily that we would not and could not be converted to the other side. We just are.

So who are the people who can't grasp this idea of sexuality? Bisexuals, who have an ambiguous attraction to both sexes.

Now, there is of course every shade of sexuality in people. It seems logical to me that most people are bisexual and most do choose to fall toward what is considered a societal norm (its just easier and you aren't hated). However, for many it is a very difficult dilemma indeed. They in fact do feel they must choose. By questioning that, we are opening a very frightening door for them - the possibility that they might make a different choice.

Seems to me that the whole rabid anti-gay Christian atmosphere is most likely promoted and perpetuated by bisexual Christians who are working very hard to overcome their conflicitng desires. I just can't seem to find any other reason why someone would be so fixated and so closed to any idea other than a passage in a book.

So, I am guessing based on your statement that you are bisexual and that you are choosing not to have sex with women. That's just fine. Don't hate others for making a different choice.

And, by the way. The bible only condemns sex between men. It never condemns sex between women. So you have nothing to worry about.

 

[ifriit]

I recon you need to believe in the truth. How would you know if a gay man person had been attracted to girls, but later changed to guy? You don't know that, they can make things up.

Ah, so now, not only are gay people wrong for being homosexual, they're also liars. Strange, I trust them to be honest more than I trust you to be correct.

If I were you, I wouldn't believe in either of them. Because the fact is, NO SCIENTIFIC REPORT IS OUT TO PROVE PEOPLE ARE BORN GAY...
get it?
Either it's in there gene or some chemical imbalance, but until I see that scientific report, I may accept being born gay as an argument, but I won't believe that being born gay actually exists.

I'm just not convinced with the lack of evidence seen so far.

You set up impossible criteria to meet, then. You will never read a scientific report proving any cause of homosexuality; science cannot prove anything directly, only falsify. However, you will--and do--see scientific articles indicating stong correlations between certain biological characteristics and homosexuality. That you find them unconvincing is of no import.

 

[Nathan David]

I recon you need to believe in the truth. How would you know if a gay man person had been attracted to girls, but later changed to guy? You don't know that, they can make things up.

They can. And so can you.

Do you have any idea why a man might start off attracted to girls, but later changed to guys? Why would anyone do that? It has never seemed appealing to me.

If I were you, I wouldn't believe in either of them. Because the fact is, NO SCIENTIFIC REPORT IS OUT TO PROVE PEOPLE ARE BORN GAY...
get it?

And there is no scientific report out to prove people are not born gay.

 

[wblastyn]

Well, if you like hetero, then lets have hetro as the spelling. Dosen't matter me, most people get it...it's just less offensive as the word straight.

hetero means different, how is it offensive?

 

[wblastyn]

I recon you need to believe in the truth. How would you know if a gay man person had been attracted to girls, but later changed to guy? You don't know that, they can make things up.

Now this is getting weak. If it doesn't support your position it's obviously a lie.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

Homosexuality is a choice.

No, it's not, according to every single medical and behavioral science institution in the United States (and many internationally) as well as the personal testimonies of the vast majority of homosexuals. Why would anyone want to choose to be gay? Why would some gay people kill themselves if it's a choice they made that they wanted to make? Couldn't they just undo it to make themselves happy again? Apparently not. You only say that homosexuality is chosen because it carries certain implications about your god:

1. If homosexuality is unchosen then god is a sadist for creating people who are automatically hellbound.

2. The Bible is wrong and/or your interpretation of it is wrong and/or your conception of god is wrong.

3. God simply does not exist and nature is as nature does.

I have found other women to be beautiful, but never wanted to be with them.

So, in other words, you made no choice in the matter because you never wanted to "be with them" in the first place. No attraction, no choice. You can't have it both ways.

If everyone was gay, how would we, humankind, survive?

Under what circumstance would the entire population be homosexual when homosexuality has been present throughout history in a relatively constant proportion of the population over time? Not everyone would simply become gay which lends more support to the notion that sexual attraction is unchosen. Besides, given how we know how reproduction works and if everyone was homosexual, then people would simply "take one for the team" so to speak. People would find ways to perpetuate the species out of necessity, not sexual deisre.

It is COMPLETELY UNNATURAL.

This is a false statement. It is completely natural. The word "natural" describes things that are "present in or produced by nature" and since homosexuality exists not just in humans but in other animal species as well, and since it is very likely to be a product of nature, it is indeed natural.

No one is born gay. That simply allows gays to feel better...like they have no choice.

False.

They make excuses for themselves.

So now all gays are liars?

Men are meant to be with women.

Evidently this is not universal. Gay men are meant to be with other men and gay women are meant to be with other women.

God designed us that way.

There is zero evidence to support that assertion that your god concept exists (or any god at all).

But same-sex partners? That is completely against God's will.

Arrogance leads you to believe that you actually know and understand the will of an omnipotent, omniscient being that may exist or may not exist at all except in your imagination.

 

[ObjectiveReality]

Whatever 2 or more consenting adults wanna do in the privacy of thier own homes is no bussiness of the government. If a member of your religious group is violating the tenants of your religion then you simply deal with that internally. Imagine if Muslims saught to impose thier morality on CHristians via the government. Perhaps you believe that whatever religion is in the majority should have the right to impose thier morals on the minority. If that's the case then we'll just have to agree that we disagree. If on the other hand you believe in treating others as you would want to be treated, you have no choice but to allow each person to make thier own decisions regarding what's moral and acceptable behavior.

???
Maybe I missed something but who is arguing that anyones privacy should be invaded or the government should be involved in any way?

So, oral sex, touching a woman's breasts, kissing, fondling...well, pretty much everything is out except penile insertion into the ******. Sorry, buyt that is what you are saying. I hope you are sticking to it.

No not entirely, there is nothing unnatural about kissing or many of the other things you said. However, oral sex is unnatural yes.

Being made in the image of God has whole heck of a lot to do with it. If I am made in the image of God, then you are saying God has a *****. For what reason does God have a *****, exactly? Why does God have hands? For what purpose? Feet? Eyes? These are all unecessary physical characteristics to an all powerful God. Useful, however, for an earth-dwelling, evolved being.

Again, it has nothing at all to do with physical appearance. It has been slightly mistranslated from the Hebrew in which the meaning of the Hebrew words image and likeness are indistinguishable. It has nothing to do with physical appearance and much to do with what separates us from the animals among other things.

You can't claim brain chemistry as a cause for homosexuality. that would make it God-created, not a choice. And the point I am trying to make is that I CANNOT be attracted to a man. I am not opposed to it. Wouldn't bother me. Just don't have it. If you can choose to be attracted to a man and a woman, then you are bisexual. You should learn to accept yourself as such.

And I myself have never said that it wasn't something you are born with...I myself tend to lean toward that many people are born homosexual. However I still believe that homosexual actions are unnatural and sinful, just as many heterosexual actions are when sex is not treated with chastity.(Please look this word up before jumping my case). I think brain chemistry could still be a contributing factor in it being a choice however. It can be altered by things such as abuse or any number of circumstances I am sure that would lead toward someone wanting to be homosexual.

Christians shouldn't call those they disagree with ignorant. The argument I make isn't hard to understand. Homosexuals are hated in our society plain and simple. What you are saying is that someone would choose to have sex with a person to whom they are not attracted with the reward being opression and hatred. That makes no sense. Not hard to understand at all.

I think that is a very valid point, it doesnt really make sense, but human emotions often fog rational thinking. I dont call everyone I disagree with ignorant, however some of the sweeping generalizations you make are very ignorant indeed. You claim that Christians or anyone else that believe the act of homosexuality is sinful or unnatural has some sort of agenda. They only do it because they hate all gay people and want to have them enslaved and tortured and some other strange things I am sure you could come up with. This is just not true, I do not wish their privacy invaded or government involvement of any kind for that matter. You claim that Christians are somehow leading the way in a wave of gay violence which is ridiculous. I would venture to say that most hate crimes of that nature come from people who fear or are threatened by gay people, or have been taught intolerance and bigotry. Im sure there are exceptions but you can hardly incriminate the whole by the actions of a few.

It is no different a sweeping generalization if I were to say gays only claim they were born gay so they can run around naked and have sex in public places. If you think that sounds ridiculous, it is and was said to prove a point.

I find this all entirely logical.

Im glad you find your own thoughts to be logical, Im sure even the greatest fool would think the same. I am not saying you dont have some valid points, but I dont think generalizations and stereotypes are often backed with reason.

 

[ObjectiveReality]

Well I'm not a Christian but I'm going out on a limb here... DOn't you believe that man has a Sinful Nature? If man is given a sinful nature then how is this sin against nature?

Man is given free will. All sin can not be justified by claiming man has a sinful nature.

This is a false statement. It is completely natural. The word "natural" describes things that are "present in or produced by nature" and since homosexuality exists not just in humans but in other animal species as well, and since it is very likely to be a product of nature, it is indeed natural.

If man is born homosexual, then homosexuality is indeed natural...however that does nothing to prove that the act of homosexuality is a natural act. It is not procreative and therefore can not be natural.

 

[Firscherscherling]

Man is given free will. All sin can not be justified by claiming man has a sinful nature.

If man is born homosexual, then homosexuality is indeed natural...however that does nothing to prove that the act of homosexuality is a natural act. It is not procreative and therefore can not be natural.

Do you consider kissing a procreative act?

 

[CrossMovement]

read this text and you will understand. Link: www.bible.com


What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality?

We realize that with the growing popularity and glamorization of homosexuality, that this subject can be a very difficult one to address. Furthermore, as hate crimes specifically committed against homosexuals occur, many feel that this issue shouldn't be addressed at all for fear of only adding to the hostile environment that many homosexuals face. Despite the cultural climate in which we live, this issue must be addressed according to the Word of God. God's laws are always for our good, although man may see them as restricting. In the end, only obedience to the Word of God can bring true freedom. We address this issue out of God's love for the homosexual to bless and help him.

Much of our society has embraced many perverted sexual practices that are considered in the Bible as abominations to God. Homosexuality is among the list of deviate or abnormal sexual practices however, there are many other practices that can be included as well. Pornography, pedophilia, prostitution, bestiality, oral sex, phone sex and computer virtual reality sex, just to name a few of them.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Although the Bible doesn't detail each and every one of these sinful acts, it does clearly speak out about many of them. Any deviation from God's original plan for sex between a married man and woman is still a sin in God's eyes. The main reason we call these things perverted is because they are unnatural and scripture clearly tells us those who do such things are committing abominations. Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination."

Homosexuality is also referred to as the sin of sodomy. This reference comes from an account in the Bible of two exceedingly wicked cities, Sodom and Gomorrah, which the Lord destroyed. Sodom was known for its rampant homosexuality and unrestrained sexual lust, as well as other sins such as arrogance, haughtiness, and disregard for the poor. When the Lord sent angels to warn Lot who lived in the city that it was about to be destroyed, the men of the city actually wanted to rape the angels! Genesis 13:13: "But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly."

In the Old Testament the penalty for this sin was severe. Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Today the penalty of death comes in the form of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases. It also brings death to the soul and spirit of man because the life of God is pushed out by indulging in something that is an abomination to God. God wants to deliver all who are trapped in this unholy practice and He will if anyone calls out to Him with a sincere heart.

Romans 1:24-32:

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


These scriptures clearly state that these vile affections of men lusting for other men (gay men) or women lusting for other women (lesbians) are not the natural affections God created men and women to have for one another. Let me say here that God loves all homosexuals! However, He hates the deeds of homosexuality because they are sinful. God did not create any human being as a homosexual. They are not born that way, just as murderers are not born that way. However, these spirits can be transmitted to children, especially if someone who had this demonic spirit seduced or raped a child--or even if they were close to gay people. These demons can also be imparted to others through unholy sexual acts.

People become homosexuals because they yield to abnormal acts or lust. It is through some source that they have received a demonic spirit that drives them to their lust. Viewing evil videos or pornographic books is a way of opening the door for Satan to give one an evil, perverse spirit. Though people are not born as homosexuals, the Bible does say all human beings are born with a sin nature. If we yield to the evils of our flesh it will lead to our destruction not only in this life, but in the life to come. However, through faith in Jesus Christ and His death on the cross we can break the hold that sin has upon us. We do not have to yield to the old fleshy nature but we can now overcome evil temptations and live our lives controlled by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Sex is God's idea and its purpose is not only for procreation, but also for recreation and the development of a deep relationship between man and woman. Nothing is wrong or dirty about sex when it is engaged in the bonds of marriage as the Lord commanded in the Bible. However, when perversions are committed inside the marriage relationship, this can be sinful also. God made man and woman and brought them together "face to face." Oral sex is of homosexual origin that replaces the normal "face to face" relationship God intended in a marriage. The Bible describes the sex act in Song of Solomon Chapter 4. In this chapter it speaks of this "face to face" relationship by describing looking into his lover's eyes and kissing his lover's lips and fondling his lover's breasts. Oral sex is not normal or natural as it is an unclean act.

No one has to live in bondage with an abnormal life of homosexuality nor any other abnormal behavior. No one has to be controlled by pornography. No one has to have evil thoughts plague their minds. There is a way out through what Jesus has done for us. He loves sinners and wants to free us from any evil practices. He will empower those who cry out for deliverance to get free and stay free. Here are the steps you must take to get free:

(1.) Make a total commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ. Be willing to turn your life completely over to the will of God and yield to His plan for your life. This means you must be willing to do anything, go anywhere and give up any thing as He leads. Remember, God will never lead you to do anything that is not in agreement with the Bible. You can trust God. He created you and has a better plan for your life.

(2.) Your must pray and read your Bible daily. You must study and apply the Word of God to overcome Satan's attacks. The way that you resist the attacks of the devil is by quoting the Word of God to him. When the devil came to tempt Jesus, He simply quoted the Word to him. Good praise tapes will also be of a great help when you are tempted. Put one on and start singing along with it.

(3.) You must pray for and seek out a strong Bible believing group of Holy Spirit filled people. You will need their help and fellowship. As you humble yourself and seek help, the Lord will deliver you. Ask God to lead you to someone that can pray the prayer of deliverance for you, as you probably will need to be set free from a demon. You should also seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit as you will need His power to get free and to remain free.

(4.) You must cut off all sources and relationships that would lead you back into sin. The Bible tells us to flee fornication (sexual sins). You must get out of any corrupt entanglements, or areas that you know will be a temptation to you. If you have been hooked on internet pornography subscribe to an Internet Service Provider that will filter out the pornography for you. Destroy all evil books and videos.

(5.) Should you slip or fall back occasionally, repent and get right back up and go on with God. Do not allow the devil to condemn you once you have repented. Put your sin under the blood of Jesus. He will strengthen you and you will win this battle because of the Lord's promise to you. Remember, He loves you and is there to help you. Run to Him when you get in trouble, never run from Him. He will not ever give up on you! We too, will be standing with you for your total healing and deliverance. Philippians 1:6: "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ."

(6.) You must forgive everyone that has ever hurt you. You can only do this through the power of God. You must by a simple act of your will voice the forgiveness and then the Lord will give you the feeling of forgiveness. This may be a while in coming but just keep forgiving when you think of any wrong that has been done to you. The Lord will give you His love for those people who have wronged you.

Prayer for Deliverance

Finally we want to pray for you right now if you need it:

Dear Heavenly Father,

We come to you in the mighty name of Jesus and we ask that you touch this one right now, first of all with your love and forgiveness. Lord, wash their sins away. Wash away all the uncleanness and guilt. Lord we ask you to free them right now from the powers of darkness.

Now, we speak to Satan and his demons and we command them to leave in the name of Jesus! Satan, this one is no longer under your power. The blood of Jesus has set them free! We resist you and you must flee! This one belongs to God and you have no more authority over them! Be gone!

Dear Lord, thank you that you have set this one free and we are believing that you will lead them to the right people that will help them to walk out this deliverance. We break every chain of iniquity over their life and cancel every evil word that has been spoken against them. We declare they will walk in your victory and that you will enable them to do it. Lord, fill them with your Holy Sprit and guide them in the ways of God! We speak blessing and success to them. Most of all, we pray that they will feel your love for them right now. We ask this all in the precious name of Jesus. Amen.

 

[CrossMovement]

God loves all homosexuals! However, He hates the deeds of homosexuality because they are sinful. God did not create any human being as a homosexual. They are not born that way, just as murderers are not born that way. However, these spirits can be transmitted to children, especially if someone who had this demonic spirit seduced or raped a child--or even if they were close to gay people. These demons can also be imparted to others through unholy sexual acts.

Link www.bible.com

 

[ObjectiveReality]

Do you consider kissing a procreative act?

No, but I also don't consider walking and bathing to be procreative. However, I find neither of these to be sinful.

 

[draper]

You're going to have to tell me what it means "in his image". God is perfect in everyway, but we're not.

Well it's Christians that preach everyone is created in his image, and you're the Christian, not me, so you can tell me.

But I believe it's supposed to mean that we're created as a mirror image of God and are supposed to preach his word and carry on his teaching. Thus posing the question, why would he CREATE someone that was not in his image?

How would you know if God just had this platform for humans to live and die, as being just some gold tested and purfied in fire?
Which hence made us no as perfect as he is, and thus proves God is perfect by creating something not perfect?

Re-iterate, you lost me there.

Homosexuality is a choice. I have found other women to be beautiful, but never wanted to be with them.

Women find can women attractive. It's a part of being female. When I once asked a girl I knew about this she answered me by saying that it's just accepted that a girl can say, "Oh, her hair is so pretty" or "Oh, I wish I had her eyes" or something similiar and not be lesbian. Boys can't say that without being considered homosexual.

Also note for sometimes young girls latch arms when walking, it's all just a girl thing, girls can do things guys can't do and still be hetersexual.

That is just wrong.

Not as wrong as discriminating against someone for being born a certain way is.

If everyone was gay, how would we, humankind, survive?

Not everybody is gay so that's not an issue. If everybody were white, how would the black race survive? It's all rhetorical. Humankind was made, my God, or the Big Bang, or whatever, in a way that it can take care of itself.

If your argument is that being gay is wrong is because it means you may not pro-create, then how come males that have suffered injuries to their *****es and may no longer produce sperm are not considered sinners?

(Of course that might not be your argument, just theorisizing.)

It is COMPLETELY UNNATURAL.

If it's a sin for being unnatural then why aren't mentally retarded people sinners? People with cancer? AIDS?

No one is born gay.

It has been scientifically proven. Again, refer to the link I posted earlier in this thread.

That simply allows gays to feel better...like they have no choice.

They don't have a choice. Take how you said you would never want to be with a female. That's how they feel about members of the opposite sex. Those feelings of disgust when engaging in sexual acts...

They make excuses for themselves.

Now you're your just being ignorant. It has been proven being gay isn't a choice. They are saying the exact same things about you...well, us, as I am straight.

Men are meant to be with women.

According to? Don't say God because there is no proof he exists and a lot of people do not believe in him. It'd be like the courts passing a guilty verdict because people think the convicted is guilty without having seen proof.

God designed us that way.

Hmm, well it's been scientifically proven that being gay is not a choice so apparently God didn't.

But same-sex partners? That is completely against God's will.

Don't be narrow minded. Your basing your argument on God being real, when really there's a relistically 50/50 chance of him being real if you're being fair, but if you're being logical it's more like 1/99 :-/.

You need an argument to convince people that being gay is wrong that could convince people that do not believe in God.

Someone who is gay can change to be hectro!

Um, what?

A gay person can engage in heterosexual acts as well as a straight person may engage in homosexual acts.

They cannot 'change' the fact that they aren't attracted to members of the same gender. They can't. What are they gonna do, try to convince themselves the person isn't attractive anymore? You can't help how you feel, or don't feel. I feel sad that little children die, it's impossible for me to change those feelings into happy ones. Now maybe if I was Harry Potter...

They could engage in hetersexual acts, of course, but it would feel the smae way as a straight person engaging in gay acts...uncomfortable, disgusting, repulsive, etc.

Whether you like to suffer or not, you have a choice. I've proven that, genes don't matter that much...but it's swaded on whether it's right to change or not.

There's a difference to partially over coming a disease and over coming your sexuality. It's like me trying to change my eye color without the use of contact lenses.

Anyways I may find more quotes that are worth replying to later.

 

[Firscherscherling]

???
Maybe I missed something but who is arguing that anyones privacy should be invaded or the government should be involved in any way?

No not entirely, there is nothing unnatural about kissing or many of the other things you said. However, oral sex is unnatural yes.

Again, it has nothing at all to do with physical appearance. It has been slightly mistranslated from the Hebrew in which the meaning of the Hebrew words image and likeness are indistinguishable. It has nothing to do with physical appearance and much to do with what separates us from the animals among other things.

And I myself have never said that it wasn't something you are born with...I myself tend to lean toward that many people are born homosexual. However I still believe that homosexual actions are unnatural and sinful, just as many heterosexual actions are when sex is not treated with chastity.(Please look this word up before jumping my case). I think brain chemistry could still be a contributing factor in it being a choice however. It can be altered by things such as abuse or any number of circumstances I am sure that would lead toward someone wanting to be homosexual.

I think that is a very valid point, it doesnt really make sense, but human emotions often fog rational thinking. I dont call everyone I disagree with ignorant, however some of the sweeping generalizations you make are very ignorant indeed. You claim that Christians or anyone else that believe the act of homosexuality is sinful or unnatural has some sort of agenda. They only do it because they hate all gay people and want to have them enslaved and tortured and some other strange things I am sure you could come up with. This is just not true, I do not wish their privacy invaded or government involvement of any kind for that matter. You claim that Christians are somehow leading the way in a wave of gay violence which is ridiculous. I would venture to say that most hate crimes of that nature come from people who fear or are threatened by gay people, or have been taught intolerance and bigotry. Im sure there are exceptions but you can hardly incriminate the whole by the actions of a few.

It is no different a sweeping generalization if I were to say gays only claim they were born gay so they can run around naked and have sex in public places. If you think that sounds ridiculous, it is and was said to prove a point.

Im glad you find your own thoughts to be logical, Im sure even the greatest fool would think the same. I am not saying you dont have some valid points, but I dont think generalizations and stereotypes are often backed with reason.

Alrighty. Yet again the 'Christian' calls me an idiot AND a fool in a single post. I guess you will be begging forgiveness for your intolerance later.

And before I could even answer, posts 76 and 77 pop up to prove my point so very well. Where do we build our stereotypes about Christian people? From reading post after post just like these that talk of homosexuals being posessed by deamons (deamons they can pass to their children no less!) and diseases like AIDS being created by God to kill them off. And from listening to sermons and discussions of same.

I would be interested to know who exactly you think is behind hate crimes against homosexuals. Let's see. It has to be someone or some group of people who hates homosexuals for some reason. Who could that be? Generally, atheists don't hate homosexuals. Why? Because the Bible is the source cited for the hatred and oppression. Remove religious texts and you remove the reason. If homosexuals were loved and accepted in this 'Christian' society, then we would have no hate crimes against them. Why do you think those who killed Matthew Sheppard killed him? They hated him. Why? He was an abomination (as taught to them their whole lives). I've spent plenty of time in church hearing it myself. Plenty of time with Christians listening to the hate.

Thanks for tellin' me to look up chastity. Some of usn's is jist too blamed dum t' unnerstand what yer a-sayin without r dicshunary.

It totally cracks me up to hear y'all say that oral sex, among other things, is unnatural, but that kissing and grabbing your partner's breasts is natural. Hilarious! And I though a mouth was for eating and breasts for feeding the young. You guys are amazing at justifying yourselves. Truly amazing! OK, let the insults fly!