So you are saying that, because they fear being 'come onto' that hate crimes perpetrators seek out homosexuals in order to victimize them? For example,the guys who killed Sheppard thought they might be come on to. So, they went to a gay bar, pretended to be gay, picked him up, took him out tied him to a post and beat him to death.......
You have quite a talent for twisting everything I say, there does not necessarily have to be only one reason for gay hate crime. I don't see anywhere in the news report I just read about it that claimed the death was related to religious beliefs. There was some pretty disturbing stuff in there about some churches almost supporting the actions of the killers because of their extreme views of homosexuals, but again you can not speak for all Christians with the words of a few.
You answered your own question. Condemning a private non-harmful act for no good reason is teaching hatred.
Actually, no I didnt. I was just making that distinction because no one knows what causes homosexuality, so in and of itself it should not be condemned. The fact that it is sinful if a good enough reason to condemn it.
Well, I can start with Leviticus where we are told to kill them.
Then I can go to the Southern Baptist churches I attended as a child where the preacher told us very clearly that the f-a-g-g-o-t-s were abominations.
Then I can go to the conversations I have had time and again with Chhristians who support the same ideas.
Then there are the visits to Louisiana where my wife's family members discuss such matters openly and promote and teach the hatred to their children.
I even remember Christians like Anita Bryant and her very public crusade against gays.
Shall we discuss Jerry Fallwell?
How about our illustrious Senator Santorum, a leader who compared gays to child molesters.
The doctrine teaches it, the leaders teach it, the congregations teach it, the public figures teach it, the politicians teach it, and the folks on this board teach it. You all consider youselves teachers do you not? Part of your purpose is to spread the doctrine, no?
I do not know the of the circumstances behind much of what you are talking about, so I can't really go into detail. But if these people are condemning homosexuality then I agree with them...if they are somehow attempting to say that homosexuals are second-hand citizens, if they are trying to say that homosexuals are an abomination and should be treated as such then I would say that that makes me sad. There are thousands and thousands of different religions, we are not all of one mind. And I do not claim there are not problems with different religions as far as moral teaching goes. But you can not say that religion as a whole teaches hatred and violence against homosexuals because you know that isnt true. Hatred and violence are against just about every major Christian ideal.
So, again, where outside of religious teaching is homosexuality held out as an abomination?
Im not answering it because the question is by and large unfair. What else outside of Religion is even capable of making such authoritative statements? The government? It is not their place to do so. Religion is the only authority that would make moral statements in this matter. All you are doing is twisting the belief that homosexuality is immoral into some sort of hatred for gay PEOPLE. Again what major religion teaches hatred and violence?
If you want another situation in which gay violence might occur Ill give you one: A guy goes out with someone he thinks he is a girl. They start to become intamate and he realizes it is not a girl but is really a guy. I have heard of this exact situation happening before and I guarantee such a violation of sexuality could easily result in violence.
The thing I am taking issue with is the fact that you say gay violence and hatred is the direct result of Religion. It is stipulated that their are radical religious groups that would promote gay violence. It is also stipulated that certain individuals would use religion as a reason to justify their own behavior. However, again no major religion teaches hatred or violence but rather just the opposite. Therefore it is extremely unfair to say that to say that hatred and violence are in any taught by religion.
Again, remove the religious threat, and what about homosexuality is threatening exactly? Do you fear being raped? - because that is not a gay trait. I just don't see the threat of which you speak. What is it?
I already explained this, it would be easy for your sexuality to feel violated by a person of the same sex who is attracted to people of the same sex.. Whether that is fair or not is not the issue, but it does happen.
Maybe you are to a certain degree correct. If religion was removed there might be less anti-gay sentiment although I guarantee it would still be present and hate crime would not end. However, that doesnt make it wrong to condemn sinful action. Homophobic Christians may just be an unfortunate effect of upholding moral integrity. Nothing that is sinful will ever be accepted as right...to twist that into the direct cause of hate and violence is the abomination within this thread.
Icystwolf: Why do you act as if you are some sort of authority on the matter of whether or not gays are born that way? Please show me how your arguments are based on anything besides your own emotions since you are springing that question on others. You claim to have done extensive research and yet your arguments are barely coherent and you have nothing to say to prove your opinions besides that you and a friend switched. But I agree with Philosoft in that matter, he stated it better than I could.