Homosexuality - Here I stand.

[Jadin Xquire]

Be patient. As I said it was only the first question.

So you do agree, that, in the Bible, God promises we will not be tempted above our ability to avoid sin, that He gives us the power to resist, or a way to escape?

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware. You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.

But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
1 Corinthians 12:1-11

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Question 2: Do you believe that the Bible tells us that Holy Spirit gives us special gifts in order to fulfill the specific missions that He gives us in building and ministering to the Church and to the world? And that different people get different gifts?

1st Question: Ya, temptation is the amount we can handle. God doesn't allow more than that. It is our duty to escape the certain amount of temptation that confronts us. Jesus shows us the door to the escape from that certain amount of the temptation.

2nd Question: Ya we are all one body. The pinky can do what pinkys do. The head can do what heads can do. The foot can do what feet can do. It is all one body with different functions on the the same body.

Next question(s). I don't see the point yet but I am trusting you will show me your point sooner or later.

 

[OllieFranz]

1st Question: Ya, temptation is the amount we can handle. God doesn't allow more than that. It is our duty to escape the certain amount of temptation that confronts us. Jesus shows us the door to the escape from that certain amount of the temptation.

You are reading more into the verse than what is there. There is nothing about "our duty." It does promise a way of escape, though.

* If we do not choose to use the way of escape provided that is on us, God still provides it. But that does mot make it "our duty."

2nd Question: Ya we are all one body. The pinky can do what pinkys do. The head can do what heads can do. The foot can do what feet can do. It is all one body with different functions on the the same body.

That is not the question I asked. i did not ask about the mission we are given to build up the Body, I asked about the gifts we are given to perform that mission.

Once again,

Question 2: Do you believe that the Bible tells us that Holy Spirit gives us special gifts in order to fulfill the specific missions that He gives us in building and ministering to the Church and to the world? And that different people get different gifts?

Next question(s). I don't see the point yet but I am trusting you will show me your point sooner or later.

Have patience. It will all connect.

 

[jpcedotal]

I think if everyone in the world just said "Who cares if you are a homosexual", that many gay groups would be madder than they are now.

Just ask Al Sharpton (sorry if I misspelled his name) and Jessie Jackson, when the media shifted from Afro-American prejudices to Illegal Alien Rights.

I think I am just gonna go on with my life......

 

[Jadin Xquire]

You are reading more into the verse than what is there. There is nothing about "our duty." It does promise a way of escape, though.

* If we do not choose to use the way of escape provided that is on us, God still provides it. But that does mot make it "our duty."



That is not the question I asked. i did not ask about the mission we are given to build up the Body, I asked about the gifts we are given to perform that mission.

Once again,

Question 2: Do you believe that the Bible tells us that Holy Spirit gives us special gifts in order to fulfill the specific missions that He gives us in building and ministering to the Church and to the world? And that different people get different gifts?



Have patience. It will all connect.

Yes I do believe there are different people with different parts of gifts. When I mentions pinky are for pinkys and heads for heads I was speaking on the same chapter. Keep reading pass v. 11 and you will find what I mean in 1 Corinthians 12:14-29. Paul gets descriptive of the different gifts of the same spirit and compares to body parts as an anology. I have answered your question the same way Paul states in the same chapter. Reading sections and not the whole chapter could be deluding the meaning/concept of the message. I prefer to look at the whole chapter than to look verse per verse for meaning/concept. Misinterpretation can easily creep in if we look at a few pixels instead of the whole picture for accuracy. I think you understand what I mean. Correct me if I am wrong.

For me it isn't looking into deep with it in detail. I feel comfortable with being technical. Is it ok if I express the answer that way in chapters instead of verses or do you want to control the way I answer as well?

 

[Tissue]

Third statement is not need according to definition 4. All is needed is 2 or more. Three could be the case but 2 is the minimum requirement. Your post was contradicting. You state on one side that you acknowledge fornication is sexual immorality. According to the bible, God isn't "ok" with Sexual Immorality. Then you say the contradiction by stating you think it is ok for open sex to take place before marriage. Now you have the decision.

No, there is no contradiction. There is the implicit premise that I believe what God says, or that I believe what the Bible says, or that I affirm the translation that employs 'fornication' with linguistic rigidity.

1. My friend Bob says fornication is sexually immoral.
2. I do not believe that fornication is sexually immoral.

No contradiction. At least, no logical contradiction. If you only mean to imply that I am taking a stance that runs contrary to the appearance of the text, then that's fair.

Just as a general observation though, when most people employ the word 'contradiction' in discourse such as this, it means 'logical contradiction', which is to say that there was a mistake somewhere along the way, not that a statement was made that is contrary to a statement someone else made.

How exactly does marriage and fornication tie together? I could understand Adultery happening but how is it possible for fornication to take place when a person is married already?

I merely meant that marriage ties into the definition of fornication, insofar as fornication is defined as sex outside of/before marriage.

 

[OllieFranz]

Yes I do believe there are different people with different parts of gifts. When I mentions pinky are for pinkys and heads for heads I was speaking on the same chapter. Keep reading pass v. 11 and you will find what I mean in 1 Corinthians 12:14-29. Paul gets descriptive of the different gifts of the same spirit and compares to body parts as an anology. I have answered your question the same way Paul states in the same chapter. Reading sections and not the whole chapter could be deluding the meaning/concept of the message. I prefer to look at the whole chapter than to look verse per verse for meaning/concept. Misinterpretation can easily creep in if we look at a few pixels instead of the whole picture for accuracy. I think you understand what I mean. Correct me if I am wrong.

For me it isn't looking into deep with it in detail. I feel comfortable with being technical. Is it ok if I express the answer that way in chapters instead of verses or do you want to control the way I answer as well?

As long as you don't read more into it than is there. In the case of question two, it is not the analogy of the body that I was objecting to, but that your response said nothing of gifts which the passage did speak about, and about which my question concerns. That, and you are getting a little ahead by glossing over something important.

To recap, in answer to Question 1, you agree that God will never let us be tempted beyond our ability to endure without giving us a way out. In answer to Question 2, The Holy Spirit gives us gifts, but He does not give us the same gifts.

If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body.

And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1 Corinthians 12:15-30
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Question 3: Do you agree that God has a different purpose for every Christian, and gives them all the gifts and only the gifts needed to fulfill that purpose? That if we all had the same purpose and the same gifts, He could not use us as effectively to fulfill His Plan?

 

[Jadin Xquire]

As long as you don't read more into it than is there. In the case of question two, it is not the analogy of the body that I was objecting to, but that your response said nothing of gifts which the passage did speak about, and about which my question concerns. That, and you are getting a little ahead by glossing over something important.

To recap, in answer to Question 1, you agree that God will never let us be tempted beyond our ability to endure without giving us a way out. In answer to Question 2, The Holy Spirit gives us gifts, but He does not give us the same gifts.

If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body.

And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1 Corinthians 12:15-30
​

Question 3: Do you agree that God has a different purpose for every Christian, and gives them all the gifts and only the gifts needed to fulfill that purpose? That if we all had the same purpose and the same gifts, He could not use us as effectively to fulfill His Plan?

Not a different purpose, maybe different jobs/assignments/gifts but it for all the same purpose. The purpose is Christ. Just as we have different gifts but one and the same Spirit. Different gifts/jobs/assignments but the same purpose. So far I understand the concept of your question. I agree with the concept so far. Ok so next question.

 

[Jadin Xquire]

No, there is no contradiction. There is the implicit premise that I believe what God says, or that I believe what the Bible says, or that I affirm the translation that employs 'fornication' with linguistic rigidity.

1. My friend Bob says fornication is sexually immoral.
2. I do not believe that fornication is sexually immoral.

No contradiction. At least, no logical contradiction. If you only mean to imply that I am taking a stance that runs contrary to the appearance of the text, then that's fair.

Just as a general observation though, when most people employ the word 'contradiction' in discourse such as this, it means 'logical contradiction', which is to say that there was a mistake somewhere along the way, not that a statement was made that is contrary to a statement someone else made.



I merely meant that marriage ties into the definition of fornication, insofar as fornication is defined as sex outside of/before marriage.

2 Corinthians 12:20-21 (New King James Version)

20 For I fear lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I wish, and that I shall be found by you such as you do not wish; lest there be contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, backbitings, whisperings, conceits, tumults; 21 lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced.


This fornication Paul speaks of is a sex before marriage. Fornication is always done before a person gets married. Sex before marriage. Paul states it. Repent to God from sex before marriage(fornication).


Galatians 5:18-20 (New King James Version)

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,21 envy, murders,[b] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

If you are led by the Holy Spirit you will not indulge in fornication or sex while you are single. People who indulge in fornication are not led by the Holy Spirit. They are led by their flesh. They are carnal minded. Their mindset is not the same as the mindset of a spiritual man. If you are a carnal man then you will not inherit the kingdom of God. Only spiritual men(women as well) will inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:2-3 (New King James Version)

2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;


Christian should not be indulging/willfully sin in fornication. Christian should not be having sex before marriage. This act is sexual immorality. This applies to hetero- and homo- all together. The definition of fornication is not for one certain group. Fornication applies to all(hetero- & homo-) who engage in this sexual act before being married. Remember I don't speak of Adultery. Adultery is done when someone is already married. This is cheating on your spouse. Fornication is only applied to single people...Not married people. Yes, they both involve a person in sex but they are understood by the status of a person: Single or Married.


Colossians 3:4-6 (New King James Version)

4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience,

I think this verse is very clear.This passage tells us, Christians, to put to death(to kill the flesh) of the members(our sinful activities) that we do on earth. We who call ourselves Christians are sons of God. In v. 6 it states clearly us Christians who indulge in fornication will be under God's wrath. Sons of disobedience are Christians who indulge in willful sins. One of the willful sins is fornication. This both applies to homosexuals and heterosexual who accepted Christ. We are all sons(daughters) of God, right? This verse applies to all of us who keep having sex before marriage. So homo- sex acts from a Christian will not be acceptable in God's eyes.

So after reading Colossians 3:4-6 do you still think it is "ok" to have sex before marriage. If you do then you are playing with fire. I say this as your brother in Christ, please place God above all. Honor God above what society saids "its ok to have sex before marriage." It is not righteous in God's eyes.

 

[OllieFranz]

Not a different purpose, maybe different jobs/assignments/gifts but it for all the same purpose. The purpose is Christ. Just as we have different gifts but one and the same Spirit. Different gifts/jobs/assignments but the same purpose. So far I understand the concept of your question. I agree with the concept so far. Ok so next question.

Fair enough. I had been using the word mission; to change to the word purpose seemed to imply a deeper reasoning that suggested to you the possibility that I was thinking of something contrary to Galatians 3:28. I was not, but I do thank you for reminding me of that verse.

So you agree God will never let us be tempted beyond what we can endure without giving us a way out. (Question 1 -- 1 Corinthians 10:13). You agree that God has different missions for us, and that in order to equip us for those missions, the Holy Spirit gives us gifts. Just as the missions differ, so do the gifts. (Questions 2 & 3 -- 1 Corinthians 12, passim)

Question 4: Conversely, would you agree that if we are not given a particular mission, we are not given the special gifts specific to that mission? (1 Corinthians 12:4-11;28-30)

 

[Jadin Xquire]

Fair enough. I had been using the word mission; to change to the word purpose seemed to imply a deeper reasoning that suggested to you the possibility that I was thinking of something contrary to Galatians 3:28. I was not, but I do thank you for reminding me of that verse.

So you agree God will never let us be tempted beyond what we can endure without giving us a way out. (Question 1 -- 1 Corinthians 10:13). You agree that God has different missions for us, and that in order to equip us for those missions, the Holy Spirit gives us gifts. Just as the missions differ, so do the gifts. (Questions 2 & 3 -- 1 Corinthians 12, passim)

Question 4: Conversely, would you agree that if we are not given a particular mission, we are not given the special gifts specific to that mission? (1 Corinthians 12:4-11;28-30)

To not have a particular mission or not be given the special gifts could indicate to not have the holy spirit. A person might not knew right a way what he/she is suppose to do once they have the Holy Spirit. The NT saids we are the temple for the Holy Spirit. After the Holy Spirit settles in the temple of a person's life then God will eventually use that person either for a small or big assignment. If a person does not have the Holy Spirit then that person is not part of the body of Christ. Thus, no salvation. You must be born again. A by-product to being born again is having the Holy Spirit in your temple. Either a person is a temple for demons or a temple for the Holy Spirit.

Being Born Again is not a request but a is an obligation to enter the kingdom of God.

1. John 3:3
   Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
   John 3:2-4 (in Context) John 3 (Whole Chapter)
2. John 3:7
   Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
   John 3:6-8 (in Context) John 3 (Whole Chapter)
3. 1 Peter 1:23
   having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
   1 Peter 1:22-24 (in Context) 1 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter)

Holy Spirit doing once it enters people
Acts 2:3-5 (New King James Version)

3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 (New King James Version)

18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body[a] and in your spirit, which are God’s.


Matthew 25:14-30 (New King James Version)

The Parable of the Talents


14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.
20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’
24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’
26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.
29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’


I know this is more of an answer than you would ask but there is a point to my answer. Those who have the Holy Spirit has talents of the spirit. They might not have exactly the same talents but the talents are all from the same spirit. The ones that put use to their talents honor God. The ones that hide their talent God punishes them.

You question you ask "Conversely, would you agree that if we are not given a particular mission, we are not given the special gifts specific to that mission?"

I would say Everything has a purpose. What ever you go through God has prepared it for you. What ever situation/mission/job/ you go through, God knows you will go through your mission/activity before you arrive to that destination. God will equip you for whatever situation you will go through. Of Course, you have your brothers/sisters in Christ to go through the mission with you in certain situations. So you can think of like this: You brother/sister will be one of the gifts of the spirit. Kind of like a substitution for prophesying, speaking tongues, interpreting tongues, raising the dead, healing the sick, healing the mute, etc....

I will close with this......

John 14:11-13 (New King James Version)

11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
The Answered Prayer


12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

So Jesus said we will do that he did when he was on earth embodied by flesh. He even added we will do greater things than he. That is a powerful statement from Jesus.

 

[Jadin Xquire]

Fair enough. I had been using the word mission; to change to the word purpose seemed to imply a deeper reasoning that suggested to you the possibility that I was thinking of something contrary to Galatians 3:28. I was not, but I do thank you for reminding me of that verse.

That isn't right of you. You said that you change the word around to suggest in tricking me. Then you end it with you were not changing the words around???? I don't know what your motive is but it gives me a chilling feeling. I don't like that feeling. I've been honest with you so far. I've not done wrong to you at all. Why would you do that to me? Your statement is contradicting. I have no problem answering your questions and fellowship with you, but if your motives are deceptive then I will stop this at once and not answer your questions. All I ask is that you are fair with me. Don't do me wrong. If I am we are brothers in Christ then love me as a neighbor. You should love your neighbor as yourself. Would you do wrong to yourself? I'm sure you wouldn't. So don't do it with me.

 

[OllieFranz]

To not have a particular mission or not be given the special gifts could indicate to not have the holy spirit. A person might not knew right a way what he/she is suppose to do once they have the Holy Spirit. The NT saids we are the temple for the Holy Spirit. After the Holy Spirit settles in the temple of a person's life then God will eventually use that person either for a small or big assignment. If a person does not have the Holy Spirit then that person is not part of the body of Christ. Thus, no salvation. You must be born again. A by-product to being born again is having the Holy Spirit in your temple. Either a person is a temple for demons or a temple for the Holy Spirit.

Being Born Again is not a request but a is an obligation to enter the kingdom of God.

1. John 3:3
   Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
   John 3:2-4 (in Context) John 3 (Whole Chapter)
2. John 3:7
   Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
   John 3:6-8 (in Context) John 3 (Whole Chapter)
3. 1 Peter 1:23
   having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
   1 Peter 1:22-24 (in Context) 1 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter)

Holy Spirit doing once it enters people
Acts 2:3-5 (New King James Version)

3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 (New King James Version)

18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body[a] and in your spirit, which are God’s.


Matthew 25:14-30 (New King James Version)

The Parable of the Talents


14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.
20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’
24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’
26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.
29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’


I know this is more of an answer than you would ask but there is a point to my answer. Those who have the Holy Spirit has talents of the spirit. They might not have exactly the same talents but the talents are all from the same spirit. The ones that put use to their talents honor God. The ones that hide their talent God punishes them.

You question you ask "Conversely, would you agree that if we are not given a particular mission, we are not given the special gifts specific to that mission?"

I would say Everything has a purpose. What ever you go through God has prepared it for you. What ever situation/mission/job/ you go through, God knows you will go through your mission/activity before you arrive to that destination. God will equip you for whatever situation you will go through. Of Course, you have your brothers/sisters in Christ to go through the mission with you in certain situations. So you can think of like this: You brother/sister will be one of the gifts of the spirit. Kind of like a substitution for prophesying, speaking tongues, interpreting tongues, raising the dead, healing the sick, healing the mute, etc....

I will close with this......

John 14:11-13 (New King James Version)

11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
The Answered Prayer


12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

So Jesus said we will do that he did when he was on earth embodied by flesh. He even added we will do greater things than he. That is a powerful statement from Jesus.

I'm not sure what it is you are hedging against here. I suspect that you are trying to get ahead of me again, but you do not know where I am going. The question is much simpler than you are allowing for.

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1 Corinthians 12:29-30
​

Would you agree that not everyone gets every gift? That, if (for example) your mission is not healing, then the Holy Spirit not gifting you with a gift for healing is not God failing to bless you and equip you for your mission?

 

[OllieFranz]

That isn't right of you. You said that you change the word around to suggest in tricking me. Then you end it with you were not changing the words around???? I don't know what your motive is but it gives me a chilling feeling. I don't like that feeling. I've been honest with you so far. I've not done wrong to you at all. Why would you do that to me? Your statement is contradicting. I have no problem answering your questions and fellowship with you, but if your motives are deceptive then I will stop this at once and not answer your questions. All I ask is that you are fair with me. Don't do me wrong. If I am we are brothers in Christ then love me as a neighbor. You should love your neighbor as yourself. Would you do wrong to yourself? I'm sure you wouldn't. So don't do it with me.

No, I said that the change in wording was inadvertent, but that I could see where you might attach meaning that I never intended to the change. I apologized for confusing you. That is all.

 

[Tissue]

You a Greek scholar, Jadin? Familiar with the history of the social institution of marriage across a wide array of cultures? Or are you merely armed with an English translation of the Bible, which you would follow off a cliff?

 

[Jadin Xquire]

You a Greek scholar, Jadin? Familiar with the history of the social institution of marriage across a wide array of cultures? Or are you merely armed with an English translation of the Bible, which you would follow off a cliff?

I guess its fair for you to ask. I have the Holy Spirit to give me interpretation. A person who is filled with the Holy Spirit has wisdom in the word of God compared to someone who has a degree. That person who has a degree in a subject, who does not have the Holy Spirit, just has knowledge. Wisdom over knowledge. My Wisdom is not of my own. Holy Spirit gave me wisdom and understanding.

Colossians 2:2-3 (New International Version)

2 My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.


See wisdom and knowledge are not the same. Knowledge is the definition. Knowledge by itself is nothing. Wisdom is applying the knowledge. Knowledge is not power. What use is knowledge that isn't put into action? Wisdom is power. Wisdom > Knowledge. Not every Scholar has wisdom. Some went to school. The Degree only shows they pass the criteria in school. Doesn't mean they automatically get wisdom. That is why God uses the small to make the big(proud) look bad. To humble the big. If a person doesn't have the Holy Spirit/born again then Colossians 2:2-3 doesn't apply to that person.

 

[Jadin Xquire]

I'm not sure what it is you are hedging against here. I suspect that you are trying to get ahead of me again, but you do not know where I am going. The question is much simpler than you are allowing for.

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1 Corinthians 12:29-30
​

Would you agree that not everyone gets every gift? That, if (for example) your mission is not healing, then the Holy Spirit not gifting you with a gift for healing is not God failing to bless you and equip you for your mission?

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 (New International Version)


7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.


It all depends who the Holy Spirit gives the gifts too. It's possible that some have all and some that may not have all. For the ones who do not have all the gifts, I suggest they call on their brother/sister in Christ for Help if God hasn't given that person a certain gift for that certain task. I agree that some don't have all the gifts. I agree all have atleast 1 gift, if they have the Holy Spirit.

 

[OllieFranz]

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 (New International Version)


7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.


It all depends who the Holy Spirit gives the gifts too. It's possible that some have all and some that may not have all. For the ones who do not have all the gifts, I suggest they call on their brother/sister in Christ for Help if God hasn't given that person a certain gift for that certain task.

You still seem reluctant to give a simple answer to a simple question. Perhaps because you don't want to be tied down to any hidden assumptions that you think I'll gloss over. If so, that's fair enough. But let me know exactly what it is you are unwilling to agree with.

Now I did the same with one of your questions, but first I agreed in general with the question as asked, and then I mentioned a hidden assumption that I saw in it and qualified my answer. If the assumption I noticed had had nothing to do with your argument you would have been free to ignore it and proceed. But since it turned out that it was important to your argument, you had to deal with it.

Reading over your last two responses, the best I can make out is that you are concerned about mixing promises made to all people with promises made only to believers. If that is true, you may think I'm trying to get you to agree to apply a promise made only to believers to a non-believer. If that is the problem, let me assure you that we can assume that the rest of this discussion involves only believers. If at any point I present evidence -- other than sexual orientation -- that any of the people involved are not believers, you can call me on it.

If that is not the reason you are hedging, please be clearer so that we can clear up the confusion and continue the discussion.

 

[Jadin Xquire]

You still seem reluctant to give a simple answer to a simple question. Perhaps because you don't want to be tied down to any hidden assumptions that you think I'll gloss over. If so, that's fair enough. But let me know exactly what it is you are unwilling to agree with.

Now I did the same with one of your questions, but first I agreed in general with the question as asked, and then I mentioned a hidden assumption that I saw in it and qualified my answer. If the assumption I noticed had had nothing to do with your argument you would have been free to ignore it and proceed. But since it turned out that it was important to your argument, you had to deal with it.

Reading over your last two responses, the best I can make out is that you are concerned about mixing promises made to all people with promises made only to believers. If that is true, you may think I'm trying to get you to agree to apply a promise made only to believers to a non-believer. If that is the problem, let me assure you that we can assume that the rest of this discussion involves only believers. If at any point I present evidence -- other than sexual orientation -- that any of the people involved are not believers, you can call me on it.

If that is not the reason you are hedging, please be clearer so that we can clear up the confusion and continue the discussion.

agreed.

 

[OllieFranz]

agreed.

Just to be clear, what is it you are agreeing to? To Question 4? To the condition that because some promises are only for believers, that if a person is not a believer, the promise, and thus my agument, does not apply? To both? To neither?

 

[Jadin Xquire]

You a Greek scholar, Jadin? Familiar with the history of the social institution of marriage across a wide array of cultures? Or are you merely armed with an English translation of the Bible, which you would follow off a cliff?

so in layman's terms your question states, Jadin are you either a man with a degree or are you stupid?

Do you think im foolish? Without the Holy Spirit?