Homosexuality - Here I stand.

[Jadin Xquire]

Ok, you didn't address my argument at all. You can't just make things go away by saying they are fallacious. That's not how this works.

I just showed that abomination obviously doesn't mean sin in every instance it is used. This, combined with other arguments, provides a rather compelling case for homosexual love being valid (that is, not any more sinful than heterosexual love). If you want to undermine that case, you have to use logic.

Question: If I accept Christ and afterwards I willfully have open sex with women when I please. I'm a man. Technically, that would make me heterosexual. Am I going to heaven if I die or the rapture happens? Will my acts be forgiven by God with my attitude of not caring if I sin? Even if I call myself "Christian" but if someone looks at my situation do I look different from the world? Is my open sex, after accepting Christ, considered Sexual Immorality? These questions are not only asked to you but to all who see this post.

 

[Polycarp1]

Question: If I accept Christ and afterwards I willfully have open sex with women when I please. I'm a man. Technically, that would make me heterosexual. Am I going to heaven if I die or the rapture happens? Will my acts be forgiven by God with my attitude of not caring if I sin? Even if I call myself "Christian" but if someone looks at my situation do I look different from the world? Is my open sex, after accepting Christ, considered Sexual Immorality? These questions are not only asked to you but to all who see this post.

Question: Are you in a committed marital relationship with the one woman you're having open sex with? Or are you indulging your lust with any woman who will have you?

And when you've finished with those questions, here's another: On what grounds does one decide that the part of God;s Commandments that is interpreted (reasonably) as prohibiting all homosexual sex activity is still valid, but the part that prohibits the judging of one's fellow man as a sinner to be reviled is not? Because the latter is much more plentifully documented in Christ's own words than is the former?

 

[Jadin Xquire]

Question: Are you in a committed marital relationship with the one woman you're having open sex with? Or are you indulging your lust with any woman who will have you?

And when you've finished with those questions, here's another: On what grounds does one decide that the part of God;s Commandments that is interpreted (reasonably) as prohibiting all homosexual sex activity is still valid, but the part that prohibits the judging of one's fellow man as a sinner to be reviled is not? Because the latter is much more plentifully documented in Christ's own words than is the former?

I'm not married in the example. This story doesn't apply to my real life. I have not had sexual relations with a woman since April of 2008. I was just illustrating, but for the sake of finding out what you guys think, I am still asking.



What is Sexual Immorality?
If a person commits sexual and/or Lustful acts with another person and they aren't married too each other then this is considered Sexual Immorality. It is because no marriage(union) is establish that makes it Sexual Immorality. All sexual and/or Lustful acts is meant between a husband and wife. These acts out of marriage is out of order according to God's definition of marriage.

Let us see what Jesus said about Judging.....
Matthew 7:1-5 (New International Version)

Matthew 7

Judging Others

1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

If I am not indulging in Sexual Immorality anymore could you still Judge me with under the "same measure"? How can you? I stop my sexual immorality as of April/2008. That is why Paul, in Romans 1 & 1 Corinthians 5, judges the Christians who indulge in Sexual Immorality. Paul wasn't in Sexual Immorality. That is why he judges people who call themselves "Brothers/Christians" who indulges in Sexual Immorality.


3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?


I took out my "speck of sawdust" from my "eye" as of April/2008. Since that "Speck of sawdust" is out of my life could I look at my bother's "speck" in his eye in a righteous manner? The answer is yes.





5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Since my "speck of sawdust" of Sexual Immorality is out of my eye then that does not make me a hypocrite to look at anyone else "speck(s)". Then I could look in my brother's eye to take out the speck/willful sin out of his eye. Judging is only wrong when you are in the same sin as your brother/sister in Christ, when you are not out of that strong hold in your life. Once you are out of the "sin(s)" then you can rightfully Judge, with love, to help your brother/Christian in his/her situation. You guys think Judging is a "Curse-Word". It isn't when done in love. We are to do it in love and tell your brother/sister what sin he/her is struggling with and helping him/her out of the willful sin. That is assuming your brother/sister wants to stop willful sin. If not then he/she commits lawlessness. Lawlessness is punishable by Hell/Second Death/Lake of Fire by God Matthew 13:41-42.

This also applies to women. For example, when Jesus fed the multitudes with the loaves of bread and fishes it never mentioned the women and Children. By scholars, it is understood there are women and children to each of the men in the event when Jesus fed the multitudes. i.e.: 5000( including women and children there....10000 to 12000 people in all considering all wives and children.) who were fed that day. With that understood we can apply this to other illustrations in the bible to other verses.
Matthew 7:1-5, Matthew 5:27-30, etc.....

 

[Tissue]

why would I want to address fallacy? it's plain and obvious to see to those who know the Shepherd's voice.

This is pretty silly; fallacies are logical issues. If there really is a fallacy in my argument, then it would be plain and obvious to those who understand the intricacies of logic. Being a Christian (or being familiar with the Spirit, or whatever you were referring to) has nothing to do with it.

I Commented on your lucrative argument. I'm not sorry that I don't conform to the beliefs of those who call "good evil and evil good."

You commented on it, but you did not critique it, or say how it was wrong, or anything else like that. You simply said, 'Oh. That's fallacious.' That's not very convincing. If you don't point out why it is fallacious, then why should we believe that it is fallacious?

 

[Tissue]

Question: If I accept Christ and afterwards I willfully have open sex with women when I please. I'm a man. Technically, that would make me heterosexual. Am I going to heaven if I die or the rapture happens?

I'm not God. I can't say if that person would immediately go to heaven after his death, or if the rapture will occur, etc.

I do know that Christians sin.

 

[2 King]

is it not true that just by thinking about sinning, you sin?

 

[OllieFranz]

is it not true that just by thinking about sinning, you sin?

Is it?

We know that Jesus was tempted. Surely He had to think about doing the sin, even if only to reject it. We also know that He was without sin. So thinking about sinning is not always in itself sin. So it is false that just by thinking about sinning, we sin.

 

[red77]

is it not true that just by thinking about sinning, you sin?

Is feeling tempted equivalent to sinning?

That being said I do wish people wouldn't be so fixated with homosexuality....

 

[Tissue]

is it not true that just by thinking about sinning, you sin?

In one sense, absolutely not. I can think about a person lying without actually lying. I can think about a person having sex without lusting.

However, if by 'thinking about sinning' you mean 'pondering whether or not I will sin, as a course of action', then my answer would be 'It depends'. In a certain way, if you ponder that issue, and decide to sin, then you have sinned before the action itself occurred. However, if you ponder that issue, and decide not to sin, then you have not necessarily sinned.

 

[Jadin Xquire]

In one sense, absolutely not. I can think about a person lying without actually lying. I can think about a person having sex without lusting.

However, if by 'thinking about sinning' you mean 'pondering whether or not I will sin, as a course of action', then my answer would be 'It depends'. In a certain way, if you ponder that issue, and decide to sin, then you have sinned before the action itself occurred. However, if you ponder that issue, and decide not to sin, then you have not necessarily sinned.

You forgot to answer. I had more than one question. Is my open sex(not married), after accepting Christ, considered Sexual Immorality?

 

[Tissue]

You forgot to answer. I had more than one question. Is my open sex(not married), after accepting Christ, considered Sexual Immorality?

I thought we had already talked about this in another topic? I don't think the marriage ceremony is some metaphysical, magical switch that suddenly makes sex ok. It's complicated.

 

[OllieFranz]

You forgot to answer. I had more than one question. Is my open sex(not married), after accepting Christ, considered Sexual Immorality?

It depends on what your relationship is and who determined that you aren't married, and what were the criteri9a used to make that determination.

 

[Jadin Xquire]

To OllieFranz and Tissue: According to the bible what is it considered to be?(rhetorical) What is sex outside of marriage? Adultery and Fornication both are similar but not the same. Adultery is when a person is married and has sex with another person(Cheating) other than their spouse. Fornication is a person who isn't married and has sex with whom ever. Im taking about fornication in this illustration a few post back. Is fornication considered sexual immorality?

 

[Tissue]

What are you getting at, Socrates?

 

[OllieFranz]

To OllieFranz and Tissue: According to the bible what is it considered to be?(rhetorical) What is sex outside of marriage? Adultery and Fornication both are similar but not the same. Adultery is when a person is married and has sex with another person(Cheating) other than their spouse. Fornication is a person who isn't married and has sex with whom ever. Im taking about fornication in this illustration a few post back. Is fornication considered sexual immorality?

I understand that. But is is really fornication when they have pledged their lives to one another in marriage before God and witnesses, but you still refuse to accept that they are married?

 

[Jadin Xquire]

I understand that. But is is really fornication when they have pledged their lives to one another in marriage before God and witnesses, but you still refuse to accept that they are married?

My question was referred to people out of the bonds of marriage having sex. When you stated "I understand that.", are you say "yes" fornication is under the definition of Sexual Immorality?

 

[Jadin Xquire]

What are you getting at, Socrates?

I can get to a point once you answer the question. Is fornication considered sexual immorality?

 

[Jadin Xquire]

Tissue: Maybe it is complicated to say if fornication is or not sexual immorality if you don't understand the definition it self in its entirety.

I found this on dictionary.com.


for⋅ni⋅ca⋅tion

   /ˌfɔr

nɪˈkeɪ

ʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fawr-ni-key-shuh

n] Show IPA Use Fornication in a Sentence

–noun 1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other. 2. Bible. idolatry.

Do you two, OllieFranz and Tissue, agree with this definition or is the definition in error?

 

[Tissue]

I agree with that definition, and I understand that some translations of Scripture say fornication is sexually immoral, but I do not think that sex before marriage is necessarily sinful.

 

[Jadin Xquire]

I agree with that definition, and I understand that some translations of Scripture say fornication is sexually immoral, but I do not think that sex before marriage is necessarily sinful.

I see the bible states it clearly as you said "I understand that some translations of Scripture say fornication is sexually immoral". Then you state "but I do not think that sex before marriage is necessarily sinful."
Isn't that a contradiction in your statement? I'm confused on your understanding of fornication. Could it be that you understand it clearly states in the bible fornication is under sexual immorality, but you are ok with sex before marriage which is sexual immorality?

OllieFranz: Do you think the same a Tissue or do you think differently?