Homosexuality from a christian point of veiw.

[Tangnefedd]

Again it is not the bible itself that is the problem…rather it is the selective use of bible verses by some people to justify personal prejudice.

Together with not reading the Bible with an understanding of the times in which it was set, which are completely different to the 21st Century. I wonder if the fundies would really like to be transported back to those days?

 

[wblastyn]

Yes the pattern is you assuming what you think I find 'pleasurable'.
I do not condemn homosexuality on whether it is pleasurable, or not. But on what the church teaches

What are you talking about, where did I say you personally condemn homosexuality because it's not pleaurable. I'm talking about people who think homosexuality is disgusting/undesirable/whatever, the reason they think it is disgusting is because they are straight.

Do they consent to people eating them?

No, but there's a difference between killing an animal quickly and with the least amount of pain out of necessity (ie food), and abusing/raping an animal for your own jollies.

So why raise it as an issue?

Because you said something about bestiality not being right just because someone finds it pleasurable.

 

[wblastyn]

Why don't you support bestiality? It doesn't 'harm' anyone (the animal is not a person and so can not give consent/reject it any more than any other sexual aide someone might use, such as a vibrator). And thus we eat animals without worrying about 'consent' just as we use tennis rackets without their consent in playing tennis.

Animals are living beings with feelings and rights, that is why we do not rape them.

Jesus was kind to animals remember, yet He provided His followers with fish, etc. Plus God allowed us to eat pork, etc.

What a man or woman does with an animal in the privacy of their own home is their concern? (is it not? )

Tell that to animals rights.

Same goes for incest between two consenting adults.

Incest produces deformed babies, hence it is wrong. The Bible did not always condemn incest btw, who do you think Cain married.

You see, the measure of 'good' or 'bad' is not the same as 'pleasurable' or 'legal', or other subjective measures.

No one has said you can measure something as being good because it is pleasurable. Also, just because you think something is disguisting does not make it wrong wither.

 

[Tangnefedd]

Bestiality is not right because an animal is unable to give consent!

 

[Montalban]

What are you talking about, where did I say you personally condemn homosexuality because it's not pleaurable. I'm talking about people who think homosexuality is disgusting/undesirable/whatever, the reason they think it is disgusting is because they are straight.

So you're responding to no one in particular?

No, but there's a difference between killing an animal quickly and with the least amount of pain out of necessity (ie food), and abusing/raping an animal for your own jollies.

So you'd prefer to die than to be raped? It's not 'rape' anyway, because consent is not an issue. No use of animals for mankind, whether it be 'abuse' as in animal experiment etc takes into account 'consent'.

Thus as consent is not an issue, you should be in favour of the legalisation of bestiality as it does not 'harm' any one (implied 'person').

Because you said something about bestiality not being right just because someone finds it pleasurable.

I didn't raise the peadophillia issue here.

 

[Montalban]

Bestiality is not right because an animal is unable to give consent!

Neither is a blow up doll, or a vibrator. I look forward to hearing you push to outlaw them.

When do animals consent to be eaten, by the way?

 

[Montalban]

Again it is not the bible itself that is the problem…rather it is the selective use of bible verses by some people to justify personal prejudice.

Yes, but I've taken Outlaw to task on this, so don't worry!

Together with not reading the Bible with an understanding of the times in which it was set, which are completely different to the 21st Century. I wonder if the fundies would really like to be transported back to those days?

When is the use-by date on Christ's moral teachings?

 

[Montalban]

for centuries racism has been biblically justified as has anti-Semiticism.

Are you saying that Christians believed being Jewish was sinful? Please state Jesus' teachings on the matter.

Thanks in advance

 

[Montalban]

If people use the Bible to support all sorts of evil, like racsim and the repression of women and homosexuals etc, then parts of the Bbile are evil!

That's like saying if I throw a brick at you and it scratches you, bricks are evil


You may wish to think through before you post again.

 

[wblastyn]

Btw, it's interesting to see the parallels between homosexuals and other minority groups. When Christianity first started out the Romans accused Christians of drinking blood (misunderstanding communion) and performing human sacrifices, etc. Obviously they got it wrong, they were ignorant about this minority group, and people fear what they do not understand. It's kinda like how people think homosexuals are also child molesters, have some "agenda", are promiscuous, etc.

 

[Montalban]

Btw, it's interesting to see the parallels between homosexuals and other minority groups. When Christianity first started out the Romans accused Christians of drinking blood (misunderstanding communion) and performing human sacrifices, etc. Obviously they got it wrong, they were ignorant about this minority group, and people fear what they do not understand. It's kinda like how people think homosexuals are also child molesters, have some "agenda", are promiscuous, etc.

Yes, Christians have an 'agenda' that even when they were a minority group they held fast to ideals of moral behaviour. And we still do it!

 

[Tangnefedd]

Yes, Christians have an 'agenda' that even when they were a minority group they held fast to ideals of moral behaviour. And we still do it!


You reckon? Some of the most immoral people I know call themselves born agains! It all depends what you mean by morals of course. Some fundies only seem to be interested in the prurient details of what folk get up to in bed. Who gives a damn as long as it is consensual, and not with animals or minors? Yet many American fundies seem to be quite happy with what is going on in their name and perpetrated by their Government in Cuba and in Iraq. If the latest news reports are true it is claimed that the CIA has exported terrorist suspects so they can be interrogated in countries that are quite happy to use torture as a means to an end. Now that is immoral!

 

[Faith In God]

Yes, Christians have an 'agenda' that even when they were a minority group they held fast to ideals of moral behaviour. And we still do it!


You reckon? Some of the most immoral people I know call themselves born agains! It all depends what you mean by morals of course. Some fundies only seem to be interested in the prurient details of what folk get up to in bed. Who gives a damn as long as it is consensual, and not with animals or minors? Yet many American fundies seem to be quite happy with what is going on in their name and perpetrated by their Government in Cuba and in Iraq. If the latest news reports are true it is claimed that the CIA has exported terrorist suspects so they can be interrogated in countries that are quite happy to use torture as a means to an end. Now that is immoral!

You would not be able to tell by this post that this thread is about homosexuality.
1st: language.
2nd: America does not equal Christendom.
3rd: Yes, there are hypocrites. Jesus said there would be. That does not change the morality of God.

 

[*Starlight*]

I don't see anything wrong with two people who love each other in a romantic way and want to live together as a married couple, no matter if they are the same or opposite gender.

 

[Faith In God]

I don't see anything wrong with two people who love each other in a romantic way and want to live together as a married couple, no matter if they are the same or opposite gender.

Is this your stance from a Biblical perspective, or your own extrabiblical reasoning?

 

[*Starlight*]

Is this your stance from a Biblical perspective, or your own extrabiblical reasoning?

It's my own opinion about homosexuality. I don't know what God thinks about homosexuals, but I think it's much more possible that He doesn't have anything against them since they don't hurt anyone. When the Bible was written, homosexual rape was quite prevalent (that's what I've read on a Christian website), so the Bible verses about homosexuality are about rape, not a loving relationship.

 

[outlaw]

Yes, but I've taken Outlaw to task on this, so don't worry!

If by this you mean you have misrepresented my posts well then yes I suppose you have done that.

When is the use-by date on Christ's moral teachings?

when exactly did eating shrimp stop being an abomination?

 

[sethad]

one thing you can see in history is that christians have always tried to use the bible to back up one thing or another. in early america up until the 1960s or later in some places it was used to back up racism. etc.

that and it seems that many christians tend to be brainwashed into thinking that homosexual=child molestors and diseased and all that bull. actually most child sex offenders identify as straight whether they abuse boys or girls. and the rate that boys and girls are abused are very close to each other too. (I could go on an entire tangent about that but I wont. it isnt related at all).

I'm straight, but I could care less what other people are. It's none of my business.

 

[outlaw]

Are you saying that Christians believed being Jewish was sinful? Please state Jesus' teachings on the matter.

Thanks in advance

I see that you agree that the bible has been used to justify racism just as it is used to justify anti-homosexual prejudice.





As for anti-semeticism please don’t insult people by suggesting that just like those who choose to hate based on skin color and those who choose to hate based on sexual orientation those who hate Jews cannot and do not use the bible to their own ends.

1 Thessalonians 2:15

Revelations 3:9

Isaiah 1:4





See also:

Why the Jews?: The Reasosn for Antisemtism – Dennis Prager and Joseph Telushkin

 

[PhenomenalXtronophobus]

I think that God is apathetic about humans engaging in homosexuality but would rather not that Chimpanzees do it.