Homosexuality: Choice and/or genetic?

[super animator]

I created this thread, so that you guys will quit derailing other threads.

 

[2ndRateMind]

I created this thread, so that you guys will quit derailing other threads.

OK. I voted both. Genetics involves psychological dispositions, rather than sexual determinations. Gays and lesbians are acting out their own preferences, rather than society's. That is a choice, their choice, and I believe we should respect it just as much as we respect heterosexual choices.

Best wishes, 2ndRateMind.

 

[BigBadWlf]

If one looks at the evidence then one sees all of that evidence supporting the fact that homosexuality is inborn. There is no evidence that sexual orientation is a choice, or the result of how one was raised, or one’s relationship with either parent, or a “weak or absent father”, or childhood sexual abuse or any other social or familial factor.


I would think it better if your poll stated genetic/inborn rather than just genetic. There seem sot be some in-utreto factors involved. One of the best predictors of homosexuality is birth order of children specifically each older sibling one’s biological mother has given birth to increases the odds of one being homosexual by about 30%. There is no increase in odds of adopted children and the odds remain constant if the younger of the sibsets is removed and raised by another family.


Blanchard, R. (1997). Birth order and sibling sex ratio in homosexual versus heterosexual males and females. Annual Review of Sex Research, 8, 27-67
Ellis, L. & Blanchard, R. (2001). Birth order, sibling sex ratio, and maternal miscarriages in homosexual and heterosexual men and women. Personality and Individual Differences, 30, 543-552.
Bogaert, A. F. (2006). Biological verses nonbiological older brother and men’s sexual orientation. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 103, 10777-10774
Zucker, K.J., Siegelman, M., Dickey, R. & Klassen, P. (1998). The relation of birth order to sexual orientation in men and women. Journal of Biosocial Science, 30, 511-­519
Puts, D. A., Jordan, C. L., Breedlove, M. (2006). He fraternal birht order effect of male sexual orientation. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA, 103, 10531-10532
Lippa, R. (2007). Birth order, sibling sex ratio, handedness, and sexual orientation of male and female participants in a BBC Internet research project. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 36, 163-176
Sheridan, P. M. (1992). Sibship size, sibling sex ratio, birth order, and parental age in homosexual and nonhomosexual gender dysphorics. Journal of Nervous and Mental Diseases, 180, 40–47.
Green, R. (2000). Birth order and ratio of brothers to sisters in transsexuals. Psychological Medicine, 30, 789–795.


And I haven’t seen any derailing of other threads…just a lot of complaints that such derailing is taking place…which is itself a derailment

 

[blackdragon190]

I believe that homosexuality is largely genetic. That's not to say that acting out on homosexual impulses is right, however, as things like violence and aggression have genetic components too. In the end it's still a choice whether or not to act upon those desires.

 

[BigBadWlf]

I believe that homosexuality is largely genetic. That's not to say that acting out on homosexual impulses is right, however, as things like violence and aggression have genetic components too. In the end it's still a choice whether or not to act upon those desires.

Sexual orientation is vastly different from aggression.

The “it’s the action, not the person” (love the sinner hate the sin or any number of other forms) was also used to justify racism and laws like segregation and anti-miscegenation those defending racism would say they do not hate black people because they are black, rather they have problems with black defying the word of God and claiming to be and acting like social equals to whites, a rather horrible sin in their eyes.

 

[Dragons87]

As a Christian with homosexual attractions, I can confirm that I did not make a choice to be attracted by men--I just am.

But the grace of God is abundant, and I choose to receive His salvation, obey His laws, learn self-control and refrain from acting on my attractions.

 

[ebia]

There are two huge problems with the poll:
1. It is unlikely to be entirely one thing
2. It leaves out environmental factors early in development that are certainly at least part of what is going on.

The poll as it stands is wrong whichever way one answers.

 

[MajorMonogram]

There are two huge problems with the poll:
1. It is unlikely to be entirely one thing
2. It leaves out environmental factors early in development that are certainly at least part of what is going on.

The poll as it stands is wrong whichever way one answers.

May I ask what environmental factors are you speaking of?

 

[Everlasting33]

There are biological influences in who we are and this carries over to sexuality. However, this is not to say that homosexuality is legitimized because of biology; it is simply understood.

 

[BigBadWlf]

There are biological influences in who we are and this carries over to sexuality. However, this is not to say that homosexuality is legitimized because of biology; it is simply understood.

Is racial equality legitimized because the color of our skin is inborn?

 

[ebia]

Is racial equality legitimized because the color of our skin is inborn?

I would have to say "no". Racial equality is legitimate, and colour of the skin is inborn, but not because one follows from the other.

 

[Everlasting33]

Is racial equality legitimized because the color of our skin is inborn?

Homosexuality is not justified simply because of biology.

 

[ebia]

May I ask what environmental factors are you speaking of?

Such as factors as the person is developing in the womb and possibly in early childhood when our brains are making most of their connections.

 

[ke1985]

choice

 

[chrisnu]

The inclination is likely not a conscious choice for most. However, behavior is always a choice.

 

[OllieFranz]

The poll is inadequate. There are many factors that might influence one's orientation, not just genetics and choice. And all of them do exert some influence, so if they were all included, my choice would be "all of the above."

There are genetic factors, in-utero biochemical factors, environmental factors and training factors that each in turn influence or constrain orientation. There is still just enough "wiggle-room" for some degree of choice to be involved, but if the person is not near a 3 on the Kinsey scale, it is probably not enough to influence whether he is gay or straight, merely how gay or straight he is.

The people who say that attraction may not be a choice, but action is a choice are correct, up to a point. We learn to not do sinful actions by learning to be patient. We want a toy. We can either steal it, or we can be patient, knowing that when we have earned the money, we can buy it and still have it. Likewise, sexual chastity is patience until the time is right, knowing that we will enjoy the experience at the right time.

But these people do not tell gays to wait until marriage. They tell them they must never look forward to sex.

Paul tells us that the sex drive is stronger than most people, that they should not avoid marriage and burn. He tells us that some, like him, have a special gift of God to be able to face a lifetime of celibacy. But not all gifts are given to all men.

It is cruel to expect someone who does not have the gift to renounce all hope of sex. As a lifelong celibate, I know that even with the gift, there is a struggle. Without the gift, it would be hopeless.

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?
Langston Hughes

 

[BigBadWlf]

I would have to say "no". Racial equality is legitimate, and colour of the skin is inborn, but not because one follows from the other.

Can you explain why equality for SOME minorities is ‘legitimate’ but not for others?

 

[BigBadWlf]

Homosexuality is not justified simply because of biology.

Is discrimination justified in spite of biology?

 

[BigBadWlf]

Such as factors as the person is developing in the womb and possibly in early childhood when our brains are making most of their connections.

is there any evidence for these early childhood factors?

 

[BigBadWlf]

choice

Why do you believe so?

Just when does this “choice” take place?

When exactly did you choose your sexual orientation?