Homosexuality and Suppression of the Truth

[Ohioprof]

According to God's Word, there is.



I asked about the homosexuals here. You're definitely in the do not believe column.

No, there is nothing from God saying that being gay has anything to do with suppressing God's truth.

Please do not try to characterize my beliefs, and let me speak for myself.

 

[Zaac]

1. Moriah bes not homosexual for the record. (It does have an atypical sexual orientation but it bes asked not to discuss this on CF.) So it can readily empathize with what gays put up with since itself bes persecuted and vilified likewise over things it cannot choose or unchoose or change about itself.
2. It has no disdain for God's actual word as absolute truth.
3. It has tremendous disdain for human arrogance wed to ignorance what cannot tell the "map from the territory" -- which bes to say cannot tell the difference between the actual WORD and their mere INTERPRETATION of it, but insists the latter constitutes the former and that others' disagreement constitutes apostasy or disdain for the Word.
4. Conviction bes an internal and private process, not a matter to be subjected to someone else's dictation. A person receives conviction when THEY PERSONALLY come to comprehend something as being wrong ... NOT because someone else beats them over the head with harrumphing and blustering opinions. Particularly when these MUST be accompanied by lying mischaracterizations of others' thoughts, views and intents.
5. So please just stop all that nonsense before it even gets started. It won't fly here where ppls have intelligent minds and do not buy party lines sold to them on a float made from guilt flavored puffs of hot air.

Moriah, Moriah, Moriah. If I were not an extremely patient person, your "IT" references would have annoyed the snot out of me by now.

But note, I'm not talking about interpretation. And all this talk about something being open to interpretation does nothing more than reinforce what God says about folks suppressing the truth and beinggiven over to their sinful desires.

 

[tkoman]

Please no cat references - you know what that will start.

 

[Ohioprof]

Moriah, Moriah, Moriah. If I were not an extremely patient person, your "IT" references would have annoyed the snot out of me by now.

But note, I'm not talking about interpretation. And all this talk about something being open to interpretation does nothing more than reinforce what God says about folks suppressing the truth and beinggiven over to their sinful desires.

Your reading of the Bible IS interpretation. So is everyone's. The act of reading is an act of interpretation.

 

[Zaac]

There is no "onslaught of homosexual fornication."[/quore]

Sure there is. Go to midtown Atlanta. Go to Amsterdam. Go to San Francisco. Go to New York City. Go to Des Moines. Go to Po Dunk USA. Theres an onslaught.

That is purely your imagination talking. There are just gay people living our lives, as everyone lives their lives.

Yep, just gay folks who suppressed the truth and who have been given over to their sinful desires.

There have been gay people marrying our spouses as long as there have been heterosexuals marrying their spouses. Being gay is not a disease, not a "sinful behavior," not something that suddenly appeared on earth. Gay people are just people, like everyone else.

Who said anything about being gay being sinful behavior? Look closely at where it says homosexual fornication.

 

[jamielindas]

If if there is a source, I wouldn't trust it. Studies like this usually use functional magnetic resonance, which is fairly new and widely criticized for being too indirect of a measurement of brain activity.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Moriah, Moriah, Moriah. If I were not an extremely patient person, your "IT" references would have annoyed the snot out of me by now.

But note, I'm not talking about interpretation. And all this talk about something being open to interpretation does nothing more than reinforce what God says about folks suppressing the truth and beinggiven over to their sinful desires.

Well no, and yes.
First off, it bes not those that recognize the presence of interpretation muddying the waters who evince that, but again, those who insist their interpretations equate to absolute perfect 100% incontrovertible grasp of the perfectly 100% objective view of the mind of God Himself. By setting their narrow parameters upon His living, expansive, dynamic Word, they suppress the truth themselves. Then they go around accusing everyone else of being the ones doing what THEY THEMSELVES have actually done, simply because they bes miffed that others will not kowtow to their repetitious assertions that their views constitute the Word.

 

[Zaac]

Your reading of the Bible IS interpretation. So is everyone's. The act of reading is an act of interpretation.

See ya lack the Holy Spirit so you have no understanding of the things of the Spirit.

Those absent the Holy Spirit interpret. We who know Christ know Truth because it is discerned in our spirits by Him and completely aligned with the FULL of His Word.

I understand that your world of trying to understand and interpret with your own mind have left you dazed and confused as to the way of Christ.

But those in Christ expect those not indwelled by the Holy Spirit to act that way.

 

[Zaac]

If if there is a source, I wouldn't trust it. Studies like this usually use functional magnetic resonance, which is fairly new and widely criticized for being too indirect of a measurement of brain activity.

Ohh you people and your erudition.

 

[Crazy Liz]

An interesting thought here: my pastor told me about a study that shows a gay-sex experience changes a person's thought processes. I don't know the full extent of it though.

To the degree that all experiences, and especially memorable or traumatic ones, affect synaptic structures, of course it does. A rape (homosexual or heterosexual) is a traumatic experience that can damage dendrites and destroy synapses. A pleasant experience creates new associations and memories.

Beyond this, I would go so far as to expect (based on animal studies of monogamous species such as prairie voles) that in the presence of the kinds of hormones that typically exist in monogamous species, that sexual experiences that result in pair bonding do in fact make changes in the brain.

From the POV of a pastor, advice to avoid sex with persons you do not want to form a long-term pair bond is nothing more than conventional wisdom supported by modern brain science.

What study? Please cite your source.

Yeah. If you mean anything different from the above sorts of studies, I'd be interested in the source(s) also.

 

[Zaac]

Well no, and yes.
First off, it bes not those that recognize the presence of interpretation muddying the waters who evince that, but again, those who insist their interpretations equate to absolute perfect 100% incontrovertible grasp of the perfectly 100% objective view of the mind of God Himself. By setting their narrow parameters upon His living, expansive, dynamic Word, they suppress the truth themselves. Then they go around accusing everyone else of being the ones doing what THEY THEMSELVES have actually done, simply because they bes miffed that others will not kowtow to their repetitious assertions that their views constitute the Word.

I prefer to let God's Word speak for Itself. And in doing so, It shows that the onslaught of sexual immorality of which homosexual fornication is a part, is the direct result of God having passed judgment and giving people over to the sinful desires of their hearts.

 

[Ohioprof]

There is no "onslaught of homosexual fornication."[/quore]

Sure there is. Go to midtown Atlanta. Go to Amsterdam. Go to San Francisco. Go to New York City. Go to Des Moines. Go to Po Dunk USA. Theres an onslaught.



Yep, just gay folks who suppressed the truth and who have been given over to their sinful desires.



Who said anything about being gay being sinful behavior? Look closely at where it says homosexual fornication.

People in cities have been having sex since cities first appeared in the world. It's not a sudden onslaught. There are just more people in cities to have sex.

Loving a spouse within a same-sex marriage is not "fornication."

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

See ya lack the Holy Spirit so you have no understanding of the things of the Spirit.

Those absent the Holy Spirit interpret. we Who know Christ know Truth because it is discerned in our sirits by Him and completely aligned with the FULL of His Word.

Sorry but there exists no hermetically sealed vacuum chamber where the Holy Spirit mysteriously supplants your own mind's reality-parsing functions. If the Holy Spirit operates discernment in someone He operates through that person's mind, not bypassing that person's mind. A person's own mind and perceptions CANNOT be hermetically sealed and contained in a safe vacuum where they will not affect things for they BES the very medium upon which and through which the Spirit of God (or any other spirit) bes operative.

Having the Holy Spirit does NOT release any human being from the prison of having to use his own brain. Otherwise, with WHAT apparatus would you even perceive the Spirit to start with? And through what apparatus would you experience Him?

The human mind has never been removed from the inspiration process.

P.S. The Holy Spirit does not inspire people to go around comparing themselves to others and boasting they have the Holy Spirit and others do not and therefore they bes better than them, etc. etc. So by some of the behavior here demonstrated by those what consider themselves to have the Holy Spirit it would have to say they've been hoodwinked.

 

[jamielindas]

I'm not expert on this, but I'm not sure the brain works as simply as described. It's not as simple as BAD THING destroys brain cells GOOD thing creates brain cells.
From what I do know, the bit about associations is more accurate. The brain is a web of information cross linked in ways we don't totally understand yet. We know that sexual associations are the strongest though because they activate a much older part of the brain.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I prefer to let God's Word speak for Itself. And in doing so, It shows that the onslaught of sexual immorality of which homosexual fornication is a part, is the direct result of God having passed judgment and giving people over to the sinful desires of their hearts.

That bes your interpretation of what you read, yes.
Even JC recognizes the component when He questions, "What is written in the law? How readest thou?" (Luke 10:26). He recognizes both components exist and bes separate: (a) what bes actually written; (b) how someone reads it.

You can't argue with JC; He da man.

 

[Ohioprof]

I prefer to let God's Word speak for Itself. And in doing so, It shows that the onslaught of sexual immorality of which homosexual fornication is a part, is the direct result of God having passed judgment and giving people over to the sinful desires of their hearts.

Christians in the early 19th century decried the loss of morals among youth at the time. I was just reading through a primary source from that time in which the Christian author lamented how many young people were engaging in fornication.

People fornicating is nothing new. Neither are people claiming that morality has suddenly collapsed with all this fornication.

 

[Joykins]

I don't know, CaDan...I read Crossan's _The Birth of Christianity_ and after reading that Angelina Jolie started looking "hot" to me. I thought I was coming down with teh gay but it turned out to be a summer cold and too many naps on the bus.

 

[Zaac]

People in cities have been having sex since cities first appeared in the world. It's not a sudden onslaught. There are just more people in cities to have sex.

Loving a spouse within a same-sex marriage is not "fornication."

More suppression of the truth. Keep on testifying and showing why God's Word is true.

 

[Ohioprof]

See ya lack the Holy Spirit so you have no understanding of the things of the Spirit.

Those absent the Holy Spirit interpret. We who know Christ know Truth because it is discerned in our spirits by Him and completely aligned with the FULL of His Word.

I understand that your world of trying to understand and interpret with your own mind have left you dazed and confused as to the way of Christ.

But those in Christ expect those not indwelled by the Holy Spirit to act that way.

I am neither dazed nor confused. You do not know that I lack the Holy Spirit. You don't know me and cannot judge me or my relationship with God.

You do interpret the Bible, whether you acknowledge this or not, because you are human. No one has a direct line to "truth."

 

[jamielindas]

I just want to point out something this thread should focus on...

First, we don't have a clear definition of what homosexual fornication is, there seems to be some disagreement on this

Secondly, there is disagreement on whether it is something is relatively new to society or has always been a part.

I don't think this discussion can go much father without addressing these two points.

(I am guilty of straying from these points as well)