Homosexuality and Suppression of the Truth

Zaac

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That would be letting David handle David.
How about you stop grilling people on their private sexual lives?

How about you worry about the questions that you want to ask and let me handle the ones I want to ask? ;)

What business bes that of yours, hmmm?

You mean like what business is it of yours the question that I asked of DAVID and not Moriah?


Just who do you delude yourself into thinking you bes that you even have any right or merit any position in the lives of other posters here to inquire about matters that bes none of your business? They don't answer to you.

Precisely. I don't answer to you, and as such I'll continue to ask the questions that I want to know the answers to. And the people who want to answer will. So like I said, mind yours and I'll conduct whatever inquiries I wish to. :wave:
 
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savedandhappy1

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You have a severely warped perspective on JC going on here. Bes you raised by abusive types what constantly made sure you knew how "rotten" you bes but rarely offered any viable solutions other than the generic black box of stop being?

This one's perception of JC as gleaned from the Gospels bes far far different. It sees Him spending TONS of time making sure ppls knew HE bes the solution to EVERYTHING -- their pain, their loneliness, their sickness, their confusion, their corruption, their desperate need for love & forgiveness -- and very little time addressing sin, most of that spent precisely on those who tended to believe they had none. Since it does not fall into that category it does not perceive Him as one what spent all His time haranguing over what sinners everyone bes. How anyone could fail to see the stark difference between JC and most hellfire brimstone doomspoon falsely-so-called "preachers" (dunno what they bes preaching but it ain't GOOD news...) bes beyond this one's comprehends. It bes like comparing Gandhi with Hitler.


Moriah,

It appears that you have misunderstood my post or maybe I'm misunderstanding yours, so let me try to make mine clearer in case that is where the problem is.

John 8:3-11
3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

As we see in the scriptures Jesus said whoever was without sin should cast the first stone. So those who were accusing her, we see, were all convicted by their own conscience, and from the eldest to the last left till it was just Jesus and the woman.

[QUOTE-savedandhappy1] Looking at the whole story He plainly was showing how everyone is a sinner, then He showed how He didn't come to condemn but save. All those points are very important, just like the last point He made, which was go and sin no more.[/quote]

Now looking at what I said and the scriptures we see that He did point out to everyone there that they to had sinned as we see in the areas bolded above. Then what did I say? I said how He showed that He didn't come to condemn but to save.

If we don't know that we need saved from something then why would we need or want a Saviour? To me these scriptures show many things one being the whole salvation process.

We see how we have all sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.(Romans 3:23)

Then we see how Jesus came not to condemn the world but that the whole world could be saved.(John 3:16)

The last thing we see is that after we have realized our need for salvation and that Jesus came so we can receive that salvation, that we are to go and sin no more.(Romans 6:1-10)

I love it when you can be sure of a scripture because when you take the Bible as a whole there isn't any contradiction.

I am not sure why you would think that my answer had anything to do with me being abused or me putting others down because of this.

What I was trying to show, as I said above, everyone has sinned, everyone needs a Saviour/Jesus, and that after we receive His salvation we are to go and sin no more. I hope that helps.
 
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David Brider

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Are you gay David?

Bisexual - something I only realised last year.

Are you suppressing the truth?

Not that I know of.

Now I ask that not just of you but of anyone involved in sexual sin.

To the best of my knowledge I'm not involved in sexual sin.

David.
 
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David Brider

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Some say they want to be pure and holy, but they also believe that what God says about homosexual fornication has been translated incorrectly.

Well, I believe that what the Bible says about homosexual fornication has been translated (and interpreted) incorrectly. That's not the same thing as what God says, and it's not incompatible with desiring holiness and purity of heart.

They suppress the truth as given by God

No, we just believe the truth is somewhat different to your take on it.

...and He gives them over to their sinful desires.

Which sinful desires do you have in mind?

David.
 
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Zaac

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Well, I believe that what the Bible says about homosexual fornication has been translated (and interpreted) incorrectly. That's not the same thing as what God says, and it's not incompatible with desiring holiness and purity of heart.

But do you see why that response would be in line with what God's Word says about suppressing the truth? Rather than accept what His Word says about this issue as you probably do for other issues, you believe that, as it relates to this sin, God's Word has been improperly translated.

Have people done this sort of translational analysis on adultery? telling lies?coveting?murder?

No, we just believe the truth is somewhat different to your take on it.

And I present the above again. Does your study of translation on these other issues pose the same question of translational integrity for you?




Which sinful desires do you have in mind?

David.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another Romans 1:24
 
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CaDan

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But do you see why that response would be in line with what God's Word says about suppressing the truth? Rather than accept what His Word says about this issue as you probably do for other issues, you believe that, as it relates to this sin, God's Word has been improperly translated.

Have people done this sort of translational analysis on adultery? telling lies?coveting?murder?

They certainly did it on usury. ;)
 
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Crazy Liz

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But do you see why that response would be in line with what God's Word says about suppressing the truth? Rather than accept what His Word says about this issue as you probably do for other issues, you believe that, as it relates to this sin, God's Word has been improperly translated.

Have people done this sort of translational analysis on adultery?
Adultery certainly meant something different in the OT than the modern definition.
telling lies?
I think we had a discussion that touched on this a few weeks ago. Lying in the Bible is something pretty complicated.
coveting?
Since coveting/lust frequently bears on sexuality, I'll let you go ahead and discuss this more before considering whether it means the same thing to various biblical authors as it does to you.
Murder is culturally defined. It is obvious that in the OT not all killing of human beings is considered murder.

Issues of translation do not apply only to homosexuality. If that is the premise for this thread, then I think it is a faulty premise. I'm not sure if that's what you're trying to say, though. Could you clarify?
 
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David Brider

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But do you see why that response would be in line with what God's Word says about suppressing the truth? Rather than accept what His Word says about this issue as you probably do for other issues, you believe that, as it relates to this sin, God's Word has been improperly translated.

Given that the translation and interpretation of a handful of verses has been used as a justification over the years for some pretty appalling treatment of a group of people, I think we owe it to ourselves to be clear on exactly what those verses do (and don't) say. If anything, that's the opposite of "suppressing the truth".

David.
 
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Crazy Liz

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As did witchcraft, for that matter.

David.
Sure. And CaDan already mentioned usury.

I just responded to the ones Zaac chose to mention, apparently implying that they are clear and universal, involving no translational issues or cultural shift affecting the meaning of words.

This actually is a problem with defining sin in terms of specific acts that require definition. "Love the Lord your God with all you heart, soul and mind, and your neighbor as yourself," while not specifying particular things that would be violations, does stand up better across time, languages and cultures.
 
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David Brider

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And I present the above again. Does your study of translation on these other issues pose the same question of translational integrity for you?

There are some of which I'm aware that do pose issues. (The difference between what the writers of the OT understood by the Hebrew words translated as "witch" and "witchcraft, and what we understand by those words, is one obvious one.)

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another Romans 1:24

Who am I degrading my body with, then?

David.
 
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Apollo Celestio

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Why did Jesus dine with sinners? We hashed over the woman who was not stoned to death...but what about Jesus having lunch with the "worst" in society, tax collectors etc?
To tell them the good news, in effort to remove the sin. Not endorse it. Why ask this?
 
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Tenebrae

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To tell them the good news, in effort to remove the sin. Not endorse it. Why ask this?
He didnt have to dine with them in order to do that. remember the woman who was healed just by touching the hem of his robe
 
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