Holy Spirit Baptism Is NOT Water Immersion

[Dan Perez]

So you agree that there is a subsequent experience with the Holy Spirit after conversion?

Hi and the HOLY SPIRIT has many ministries !!

#1 , The ministry of ispiration
#2 , In relation to the worl
#3 Ministry of restraint
#4, MIN of giving spiritual life
#5, Ministry of Sanctification
#6 Ministry of SEALING
#7 , And about 20 other ministries !!

dan p

 

[Saint Steven]

Hi and when reading Acts 2:47 , And the Lord was ADDING / PROSTITHEMI is in the Greek IMPERFECT TENSE to the ASSEMBLY daily the ones being saved !!
IMPERFECT TENSE that Jesus ATOPPED adding to that ASSEMBLY and THE INDICATIVE MOOD means the IMPERFECT TENSE is a FACT !!

dan p

What does that mean in English? (layman's terms)
Are you claiming that the outpouring was not for all people?

Saint Steven said: ↑
That's an odd claim to make. An interruption is a pause. The train was derailed. That's more than an interruption. There is no returning to the point of interruption. That boat has sailed.

You still have failed to prove that the outpouring at Pentecost was not for all people.

 

[Saint Steven]

Hi and the HOLY SPIRIT has many ministries !!

#1 , The ministry of ispiration
#2 , In relation to the worl
#3 Ministry of restraint
#4, MIN of giving spiritual life
#5, Ministry of Sanctification
#6 Ministry of SEALING
#7 , And about 20 other ministries !!

dan p

I was referring to the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Is that on your list somewhere? (buried at the bottom?)

 

[Guojing]

That's an odd claim to make. An interruption is a pause. The train was derailed. That's more than an interruption. There is no returning to the point of interruption. That boat has sailed.

You still have failed to prove that the outpouring at Pentecost was not for all people.

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

That verse already tells you that the current blindness that befalls Israel is "in part until an event happened".

Joel, like all other OT prophets, were ignorant of this mystery that Paul is revealing now, because it was hidden in God (Ephesians 3:9)

If you don't accept that the prophetic program has been interrupted, then naturally you will be convinced that Pentecost was for "all people".

So I am trying to establish that interruption first.

 

[Saint Steven]

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

That verse already tells you that the current blindness that befalls Israel is "in part until an event happened".

Joel, like all other OT prophets, were ignorant of this mystery that Paul is revealing now, because it was hidden in God (Ephesians 3:9)

If you don't accept that the prophetic program has been interrupted, then naturally you will be convinced that Pentecost was for "all people".

So I am trying to establish that interruption first.

That scriptures seems to say the opposite of what you are claiming.
That Israel will not come until AFTER the gentiles do.

And frankly, if Pentecost was not for all people, why did the Holy Spirit manifest himself in the house of Cornelius? The gentiles received the Spirit just as the circumcised believers had at Pentecost.

Saint Steven said: ↑
That's an odd claim to make. An interruption is a pause. The train was derailed. That's more than an interruption. There is no returning to the point of interruption. That boat has sailed.

You still have failed to prove that the outpouring at Pentecost was not for all people.

 

[Guojing]

That scriptures seems to say the opposite of what you are claiming.
That Israel will not come until AFTER the gentiles do.

And frankly, if Pentecost was not for all people, why did the Holy Spirit manifest himself in the house of Cornelius? The gentiles received the Spirit just as the circumcised believers had at Pentecost.

Saint Steven said: ↑
That's an odd claim to make. An interruption is a pause. The train was derailed. That's more than an interruption. There is no returning to the point of interruption. That boat has sailed.

You still have failed to prove that the outpouring at Pentecost was not for all people.

That is why I said the current times all of us are at is an interruption to the prophetic program.

What Joel and all the other OT prophets were aware of is that gentiles are to receive mercy thru the rise of Israel.

But Paul revealed the mystery, that gentiles are currently saved thru the fall of Israel.

What Paul is stating there in Romans 11:25, that once God decided that the time is reached, that the remaining unbelieving gentiles have truly rejected the free offer of salvation thru the cross in unbelief, that is when he will return to save the nation Israel, and resume that prophetic program.

Now do you understand what Paul was saying here in Romans 11?

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[Saint Steven]

That is why I said the current times all of us are at is an interruption to the prophetic program.

What Joel and all the other OT prophets were aware of is that gentiles are to receive mercy thru the rise of Israel.

But Paul revealed the mystery, that gentiles are currently saved thru the fall of Israel.

What Paul is stating there in Romans 11:25, that once God decided that the time is reached, that the remaining unbelieving gentiles have truly rejected the free offer of salvation thru the cross in unbelief, that is when he will return to save the nation Israel, and resume that prophetic program.

Now do you understand what Paul was saying here in Romans 11?

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Okay, I can finally see your point there. Thanks.
But how does that make the outpouring at Pentecost NOT for all people?

 

[Guojing]

Okay, I can finally see your point there. Thanks.
But how does that make the outpouring at Pentecost NOT for all people?

Acts 2 was before the nation has fallen. So it was still under the prophetic timetable, where Israel needed to repent and accept Jesus as their promised King and Messiah first, before the gentiles could be reached.

So we are back to the original point, the outpouring mentioned by Joel was for the nation Israel only.

 

[Saint Steven]

Acts 2 was before the nation has fallen. So it was still under the prophetic timetable, where Israel needed to repent and accept Jesus as their promised King and Messiah first, before the gentiles could be reached.

So we are back to the original point, the outpouring mentioned by Joel was for the nation Israel only.

But that's not what happened, obviously.
Your workaround is to claim there was an "interruption". Which was more than a pause, but rather a violation of your interpretation. What needs to happen now to return to the point of interruption? Once the full number has come in, who is left? (all sorts of problems with this) And how could there be more? A second "interruption"? Wow.

Furthermore, if Peter understood this, why didn't he object when he was sent to visit Cornelius? "What about the prophetic timetable, Lord? This is too early!"

And those in Samaria were not included in Israel either. The Apostles laid hands on them to receive the Spirit. (Acts 8:18-19)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Okay, I can finally see your point there. Thanks.
But how does that make the outpouring at Pentecost NOT for all people?

 

[Guojing]

But that's not what happened, obviously.
Your workaround is to claim there was an "interruption". Which was more than a pause, but rather a violation of your interpretation. What needs to happen now to return to the point of interruption? Once the full number has come in, who is left? (all sorts of problems with this) And how could there be more? A second "interruption"? Wow.

Furthermore, if Peter understood this, why didn't he object when he was sent to visit Cornelius? "What about the prophetic timetable, Lord? This is too early!"

And those in Samaria were not included in Israel either. The Apostles laid hands on them to receive the Spirit. (Acts 8:18-19)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Okay, I can finally see your point there. Thanks.
But how does that make the outpouring at Pentecost NOT for all people?

Didn't I state already that Peter did not understand the mystery that was revealed to Paul?

And he did object going to Cornelius house, without the vision that God showed him thrice, he would never have gone.

And when he is there, he even told Cornelius it was against the Law for him to be present, so obviously he was not planning to go.

 

[Mr. M]

Acts 2 was before the nation has fallen. So it was still under the prophetic timetable, where Israel needed to repent and accept Jesus as their promised King and Messiah first, before the gentiles could be reached.

Pentecost is the Feast of Firstfruits, and they were successfully gathered prior to the Gospel being
presented to the nations. The salvation of all Israel is the feast of Booths.
The Firstfruits Follow The Lamb

 

[Guojing]

Pentecost is the Feast of Firstfruits, and they were successfully gathered prior to the Gospel being
presented to the nations. The salvation of all Israel is the feast of Booths.
The Firstfruits Follow The Lamb

Alright, and your point is?

 

[Saint Steven]

Didn't I state already that Peter did not understand the mystery that was revealed to Paul?

And he did object going to Cornelius house, without the vision that God showed him thrice, he would never have gone.

And when he is there, he even told Cornelius it was against the Law for him to be present, so obviously he was not planning to go.

Peter's resistance to meeting with Cornelius was because of the law, not because it didn't align with a "prophetic timeline". (as you agreed)

The mystery (as I understand it) was that Israel would be cut off while the gentiles were grafted in. No mention of an interruption in a "prophetic timeline".

 

[Guojing]

Peter's resistance to meeting with Cornelius was because of the law, not because it didn't align with a "prophetic timeline". (as you agreed)

The mystery (as I understand it) was that Israel would be cut off while the gentiles were grafted in. No mention of an interruption in a "prophetic timeline".

The prophetic timeline was that gentiles will be saved thru the rise of Israel.

Currently Israel has fallen, and yet we are being saved.

You can’t see that prophecy has been interrupted from these 2 premises?

 

[Mr. M]

Alright, and your point is?

So it was still under the prophetic timetable, where Israel needed to repent and accept Jesus as their promised King and Messiah first, before the gentiles could be reached.

What I posted was in response to this statement. So why do you ask what my point is? What is
your point, that "Israel needed to repent and accept Jesus". The "prophetic timetable" as you put
it, is Feast of Weeks. As I clearly stated, the salvation of all Israel is the feast of booths.
Or does that not line up with your "prophetic timetable". If you don't have a better response than

Alright, and your point is?

Maybe you should give it a little more thought.

 

[Guojing]

What I posted was in response to this statement. So why do you ask what my point is? What is
your point, that "Israel needed to repent and accept Jesus". The "prophetic timetable" as you put
it, is Feast of Weeks. As I clearly stated, the salvation of all Israel is the feast of booths.
Or does that not line up with your "prophetic timetable". If you don't have a better response than

Maybe you should give it a little more thought.

Only a remnant believe, 3000 is not the nation of Israel.

 

[Mr. M]

The prophetic timeline was that gentiles will be saved thru the rise of Israel.

Currently Israel has fallen, and yet we are being saved.

You can’t see that prophecy has been interrupted from these 2 premises?

Romans 11:
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall,
to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles,
how much more their fullness!
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.
15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but
life from the dead?

Salvation for the gentiles is a part of the process of saving all Israel, as it is written
"to provoke them to jealousy."
Their full acceptance is "life from the dead" or at the resurrection.

 

[Mr. M]

Only a remnant believe, 3000 is not the nation of Israel.

Acts 2:41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about
three thousand souls were added to them.
This first day response is not all who would be saved among the Jews.
This has nothing to do with the firstfruits.
The Firstfruits Follow The Lamb

 

[Guojing]

Acts 2:41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about
three thousand souls were added to them.
This first day response is not all who would be saved among the Jews.
This has nothing to do with the firstfruits.
The Firstfruits Follow The Lamb

So the post of mine that you were replying to, I am saying the nation Israel must accept Christ as their messiah first.

But when we came to acts 7, their national leaders rejected Christ and stoned Stephen. As they sinned against God, the entire nation sinned with them.

 

[Mr. M]

So the post of mine that you were replying to, I am saying the nation Israel must accept Christ as their messiah first.

But when we came to acts 7, their national leaders rejected Christ and stoned Stephen. As they sinned against God, the entire nation sinned with them.

accept or reject, can't be both. If you want to make the stoning of Steven a "timeline marker"
then that would represent their rejection. The gospel went out to the ends of the earth regardless.
You keep referring to a "prophetic timeline". If that is not in reference to the feasts kept in Israel,
then what is it in reference to? The Feast of Weeks corresponded to the gathering of firstfruits.
This was accomplished in accordance with the scriptures.
The Feast of Booths is the ingathering at the end of the age.
How is it you keep talking about an "interruption in the prophetic timeline".
Is the time between firstfruits and harvest an "interruption"? or the season as ordained by God?