Holy Spirit Baptism Is NOT Water Immersion

[Guojing]

Being called a dog doesn't prevent a gentile from receiving a blessing.

Matthew 15:26-28
He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”
28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Why do you consider what happened at Cornelius' house a second outpouring? I see it as an extension of the outpouring at Pentecost. Doesn't it cause doctrinal issues to claim that there were two outpourings? Acts 2 says it was for ALL people. (not just the Jews)

Acts 2:17
“‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.

under the prophetic timetable, Israel is to be saved first, before the Jews would preach to gentiles, Zechariah 8

So Joel would not be referring to gentiles there. In time past gentiles were always excluded (Ephesians 2:11-12)

 

[Saint Steven]

under the prophetic timetable, Israel is to be saved first, before the Jews would preach to gentiles, Zechariah 8

So Joel would not be referring to gentiles there. In time past gentiles were always excluded (Ephesians 2:11-12)

Wow. Sounds like you need to make up your mind. (I can help) Since all of Israel has not been saved, does your "timetable" yet allow for the salvation of gentiles? Please explain. Thanks.

Was God trying to tell Peter something here? (seems so)

Acts 10:10-18
He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18 They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

 

[Guojing]

Wow. Sounds like you need to make up your mind. (I can help) Since all of Israel has not been saved, does your "timetable" yet allow for the salvation of gentiles? Please explain. Thanks.

Was God trying to tell Peter something here? (seems so)

Acts 10:10-18
He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18 They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

By the time Stephen was stoned in Acts 7, Israel's program had come to an end.

We know that now on hindsight of course, but Peter was not aware that the nation of Israel had fallen then.

So Peter was legitimately confused at Acts 10, to be asked to go to the gentiles, before national Israel has accepted Christ as their Messiah.

 

[Saint Steven]

By the time Stephen was stoned in Acts 7, Israel's program had come to an end.

We know that now on hindsight of course, but Peter was not aware that the nation of Israel had fallen then.

So Peter was legitimately confused at Acts 10, to be asked to go to the gentiles, before national Israel has accepted Christ as their Messiah.

How does that square with the claim you made below? (see your quote)
You seem to now agree (as you should) that Israel had not been saved before going to the gentiles. (see your quote above) And if Joel was speaking prophetically (and he certainly was) why would the gentiles not be included in "all people" in Joel? Especially when the gentiles are included shortly after the outpouring at Pentecost. (the house of Cornelius - and what happened in Samaria, for that matter - Samaritans were half-breeds - not considered Jewish)

Guojing said: ↑
under the prophetic timetable, Israel is to be saved first, before the Jews would preach to gentiles, Zechariah 8

So Joel would not be referring to gentiles there. In time past gentiles were always excluded (Ephesians 2:11-12)

 

[Guojing]

How does that square with the claim you made below? (see your quote)
You seem to now agree (as you should) that Israel had not been saved before going to the gentiles. (see your quote above) And if Joel was speaking prophetically (and he certainly was) why would the gentiles not be included in "all people" in Joel? Especially when the gentiles are included shortly after the outpouring at Pentecost. (the house of Cornelius - and what happened in Samaria, for that matter - Samaritans were half-breeds - not considered Jewish)

Guojing said: ↑
under the prophetic timetable, Israel is to be saved first, before the Jews would preach to gentiles, Zechariah 8

So Joel would not be referring to gentiles there. In time past gentiles were always excluded (Ephesians 2:11-12)

Zechariah 8 stated the order under prophecy that peter had in mind.

The day of the lord finished with Israel accept Christ as their messiah, this was what joel was referring to.

Christ return to dwell with them as their king in Jerusalem

Then, every Jew would bring gentiles to Jerusalem, final verse of Zechariah 8

 

[Saint Steven]

Zechariah 8 stated the order under prophecy that peter had in mind.

The day of the lord finished with Israel accept Christ as their messiah, this was what joel was referring to.

Christ return to dwell with them as their king in Jerusalem

Then, every Jew would bring gentiles to Jerusalem, final verse of Zechariah 8

I'm going to guess that you are probably a gentile yourself. Doesn't what you are claiming mean that the gentiles aren't yet saved? (including yourself) !!!

 

[Aaron_Bethlhm]

double post/ server was stuck or whatever....

 

[Aaron_Bethlhm]

Zechariah 8 stated the order under prophecy that peter had in mind.
The day of the lord finished with Israel accept Christ as their messiah, this was what joel was referring to. Christ return to dwell with them as their king in Jerusalem Then, every Jew would bring gentiles to Jerusalem, final verse of Zechariah 8

God Willing, I am intrigued/ interested in following this up in(probably) another thread. What interests me is this: "every Jew would bring gentiles to Jerusalem" , in all the ways it may apply as it has happened, will happen, and is as written. (spiritually and physically, in truth, in harmony with all Scripture and all of God's Plan) .....
I had this post/ page on a tab for hours and just 'found it' again after getting back home... wanted to post this like a post-it/footnote/ to see later, God Willing....

 

[Guojing]

God Willing, I am intrigued/ interested in following this up in(probably) another thread. What interests me is this: "every Jew would bring gentiles to Jerusalem" , in all the ways it may apply as it has happened, will happen, and is as written. (spiritually and physically, in truth, in harmony with all Scripture and all of God's Plan) .....
I had this post/ page on a tab for hours and just 'found it' again after getting back home... wanted to post this like a post-it/footnote/ to see later, God Willing....

Even during the 1000 year reign of Jesus from Jerusalem, there will be new people born on the earth. Hence you will see that being fulfilled then.

 

[Guojing]

I'm going to guess that you are probably a gentile yourself. Doesn't what you are claiming mean that the gentiles aren't yet saved? (including yourself) !!!

No, we are saved because that prophetic program had been interrupted by God. Because Israel refuse to accept Christ, we gentiles are now saved thru the fall of Israel, instead of their rise (Romans 11:11)

But as I said, Peter would not have known that in Acts 10. We had the benefit of hindsight and the completed scripture.

 

[Saint Steven]

No, we are saved because that prophetic program had been interrupted by God. Because Israel refuse to accept Christ, we gentiles are now saved thru the fall of Israel, instead of their rise (Romans 11:11)

But as I said, Peter would not have known that in Acts 10. We had the benefit of hindsight and the completed scripture.

How could it be a "prophetic program" if it will never be fulfilled?

 

[Guojing]

How could it be a "prophetic program" if it will never be fulfilled?

As I said, it was an interruption.

As I said to another, Zechariah 8 will still be fulfilled in the future. After Israel accept Christ at the end of the Tribulation, the New Covenant described in Hebrews 8 will finally start with the nation.

After that, all those who are newly born on Earth, during the 1000 year reign of Christ from Jerusalem, will be brought by the Jews to worship and believe in Christ, as described in the final verse of Zechariah 8.

 

[Saint Steven]

As I said, it was an interruption.

As I said to another, Zechariah 8 will still be fulfilled in the future. After Israel accept Christ at the end of the Tribulation, the New Covenant described in Hebrews 8 will finally start with the nation.

After that, all those who are newly born on Earth, during the 1000 year reign of Christ from Jerusalem, will be brought by the Jews to worship and believe in Christ, as described in the final verse of Zechariah 8.

Why would Peter claim that Pentecost was the fulfillment then? (for all people)

 

[Guojing]

Why would Peter claim that Pentecost was the fulfillment then? (for all people)

Pentecost signaled the end of 69th week of Daniel.

Peter was telling Israel in Acts 2 and 3, that the Tribulation, which is the 70th week, is going to happen at any moment.

That is why he urged them to Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

 

[Saint Steven]

Pentecost signaled the end of 69th week of Daniel.

Peter was telling Israel in Acts 2 and 3, that the Tribulation, which is the 70th week, is going to happen at any moment.

That is why he urged them to Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

You have still failed to prove that the outpouring at Pentecost was not for ALL people.

 

[Guojing]

You have still failed to prove that the outpouring at Pentecost was not for ALL people.

Do you accept the prophetic timetable in the first place, that Israel is to be saved first, before the gentiles?

 

[Saint Steven]

Do you accept the prophetic timetable in the first place, that Israel is to be saved first, before the gentiles?

That is an obvious misinterpretation, since all of Israel has NOT been saved and the gentiles are already being saved. (confirmed in the NT - house of Cornelius and beyond) Are you claiming that Joel proves that NONE of the gentiles can be saved yet? (doesn't align with your "prophetic timetable")

Acts 10:45-48
The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

 

[Guojing]

That is an obvious misinterpretation, since all of Israel has NOT been saved and the gentiles are already being saved. (confirmed in the NT - house of Cornelius and beyond) Are you claiming that Joel proves that NONE of the gentiles can be saved yet? (doesn't align with your "prophetic timetable")

Acts 10:45-48
The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

I already stated to you that God interrupted the prophetic program when Paul was saved by the ascended Christ himself.

Gentiles were supposed to be saved thru the rise of Israel. (Genesis 12)

But Israel the nation refused to accept Christ.

God revealed a mystery thru the apostle Paul, that gentiles are now to be saved then the fall of Israel (Romans 11:11)

 

[Saint Steven]

I already stated to you that God interrupted the prophetic program when Paul was saved by the ascended Christ himself.

That's an odd claim to make. An interruption is a pause. The train was derailed. That's more than an interruption. There is no returning to the point of interruption. That boat has sailed.

You still have failed to prove that the outpouring at Pentecost was not for all people.

 

[Dan Perez]

That's an odd claim to make. An interruption is a pause. The train was derailed. That's more than an interruption. There is no returning to the point of interruption. That boat has sailed.

You still have failed to prove that the outpouring at Pentecost was not for all people.

Hi and when reading Acts 2:47 , And the Lord was ADDING / PROSTITHEMI is in the Greek IMPERFECT TENSE to the ASSEMBLY daily the ones being saved !!
IMPERFECT TENSE that Jesus ATOPPED adding to that ASSEMBLY and THE INDICATIVE MOOD means the IMPERFECT TENSE is a FACT !!

dan p