Holiness

[11822]

So tell us how one can be a Christian can steal. Is this doing unto others as you would have them do to you?

No its not, and i have said that before,you may recall it. I also said that to know whats good and bad and do bad instead of Good is sin which is another reason to not steal, i don't think we love God or our neighbor as our self by doing evil to our neighbor or in any other way.

 

[from scratch]

I see much of the NT doctrine is found also in some of the law. Paul did say its good and holy. He did say we establish the Law, he did say for love we obey the law. The law is helpful in showing us our sin and our need for a Savior, and in understanding holiness and love. I like Gods law.

So it appears that there is no reason to say that we establish the law. You refuse to state why you included it by saying I only said what Paul said. I don't buy that at all. To say such is to say that it is meaningless and has no value. While it is the argument of the the pro law camp to support obligation to the law. So since you seem to talk about the law so much and constantly show a personal need for rules, what zactly ya talkin bout? Come now spill the beans - all o em.

 

[from scratch]

If i am a thief i will not stop being thief by not trying. and if God says being a thief is wrong then its wrong for me to be a thief, to know good an not do it is sin. Sure i'll need Gods help that's why we pray for Him to help us, but not trying is not an excuse, we must try, the apostles are clear when they tell us to not do evil, they don't speak a lot of words about how we do nothing, they don't tell us not to concentrate on doing good, they tell us multiple times to do good and not do evil.

So as a Christian I have no desire to steal. Is my lack of deire simply a lack of motivation or is it because I focus on what I shouldn't do? It seems to me that you express a desire to steal but remember that you're not supposed to do it. Where as I've no issue to begin with.

 

[cubinity]

If a person wants to do something, but only chooses not to do it because it is against the rules, then that person's heart in not in sinc with the heart of the original lawmaker. He is bound, instead, to the law, not to the heart of the one who is above that law. Or something like that.

 

[fhansen]

So as a Christian I have no desire to steal. Is my lack of deire simply a lack of motivation or is it because I focus on what I shouldn't do? It seems to me that you express a desire to steal but remember that you're not supposed to do it. Where as I've no issue to begin with.

But if taken to its logical conclusion, aren't you saying you've reached perfection now-that you have no desire to sin-ever-and therefore no need to be vigilant/on guard lest you fall?

 

[cubinity]

But if taken to its logical conclusion, aren't you saying you've reached perfection now-that you have no desire to sin-ever-and therefore no need to be vigilant/on guard lest you fall?

I agree with scratch on this one, so if you'll hear my two cents, i'd say that it's not that i'm perfect and don't sin. It's that when I sin, I want to sin, and when I don't sin, it's because I agree with God and don't actually want to do that sin any more than He wants me to. Does that make sense?

 

[Frogster]

I agree with scratch on this one, so if you'll hear my two cents, i'd say that it's not that i'm perfect and don't sin. It's that when I sin, I want to sin, and when I don't sin, it's because I agree with God and don't actually want to do that sin any more than He wants me to. Does that make sense?

now we have the clash of 2 creations, which one do we identify ourselves with? Which "I"?


7;17So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.


20But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

 

[fhansen]

I agree with scratch on this one, so if you'll hear my two cents, i'd say that it's not that i'm perfect and don't sin. It's that when I sin, I want to sin, and when I don't sin, it's because I agree with God and don't actually want to do that sin any more than He wants me to. Does that make sense?

Yes, but I took his statement to mean that, because he doesn't want to sin, he shouldn't need to be concerned with the law. And this is true, so long as he never wants to sin. If, on the other hand we just decide we can't be perfect or sinless anyway, then I guess it doesn't really matter whether or not we want to sin. So I think the question is, should we be concerned if we sin, or not? And this is the same as saying, should we care what the law says, or not?

 

[11822]

So as a Christian I have no desire to steal. Is my lack of deire simply a lack of motivation or is it because I focus on what I shouldn't do? It seems to me that you express a desire to steal but remember that you're not supposed to do it. Where as I've no issue to begin with.

Christians don't become perfect and lose all desire to sin, the more we abide in Christ the more we become like him maybe and sin less, but sinless is not possible, only in the Context of Gods grace is that possible, but we still have a duty to try for perfection and not allow grace to be our excuse to sin, that's why i think Paul said "shall we continue to sin that grace may abound? Nay, God forbid."

We forsake evil and embrace obedience to love and holiness instead because that's Gods will and we want to love God with our whole mind, heart and soul. And obedience is a way we show our love to God i think, and he loves us back and gives grace for our failures, we trust him and seek to be obedient in love for him and our neighbor and seek after holiness, humility, love and all that good stuff through effort and prayer, because its His will and he knows best.

 

[visionary]

I just have to ask... how come there is encourage or support for those who do things that are we know are GOD calls unholy

 

[brinny]

....inexplicably tied to "forgiveness" and grace, His glory, and His face.

what a beautiful study it is.

 

[Nanopants]

I just have to ask... how come there is encourage or support for those who do things that are we know are GOD calls unholy

That requires a major assumption on your part.

I haven't seen anyone encourage or support sin here yet.

 

[visionary]

That requires a major assumption on your part.

I haven't seen anyone encourage or support sin here yet.

actually, I am working off what God declares is unholy.

 

[cubinity]

I just have to ask... how come there is encourage or support for those who do things that are we know are GOD calls unholy

specify and reiterate, please

 

[cubinity]

Yes, but I took his statement to mean that, because he doesn't want to sin, he shouldn't need to be concerned with the law. And this is true, so long as he never wants to sin. If, on the other hand we just decide we can't be perfect or sinless anyway, then I guess it doesn't really matter whether or not we want to sin. So I think the question is, should we be concerned if we sin, or not? And this is the same as saying, should we care what the law says, or not?

That hinges on whether or not you think actions are, in themselves sins, and whether or not you think the law is what defines something as a sin. I think sin is living one's life not in sync with the heart of the one who is above the law (its creator), and thus even following the law perfectly while being out of sync with the creator is sinful. Or something like that.

 

[visionary]

specify and reiterate, please

Leviticus 10:10
And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;


1 Timothy 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

 

[11822]

Speaking for myself, i don't know, but we should support each other to do good and to follow the teaching of Christ in faith. I don't know, i just try to obey God and run the race in faith. I wasn't obedient to God for a long time, my conscience condemned me, i'm glad God loved me even back then in my disobedience. I'm glad He's helping me now because i want to know Him.

 

[Nanopants]

I just have to ask... how come there is encourage or support for those who do things that are we know are GOD calls unholy

actually, I am working off what God declares is unholy.

Who is encouraging sin then?

If someone were teaching you how to drive, and told you to stop focusing on the lines on the road and just focus on where you are going, would you make the same criticism?

 

[cubinity]

Leviticus 10:10
And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;


1 Timothy 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

I'll admit, I have no idea how you connect Lev 10:10 to this. Perhaps you could explain that.

1 Tim 1:9 describes people when it refers to" the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers." Therefore, yes, in so far as this thread encourages people, I suppose you could say it encourages something the Bible calls unholy.

 

[Nanopants]

Leviticus 10:10
And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;


1 Timothy 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Exactly. It's for people who know not the way: those who remain in their sins.