Holiness

[cubinity]

If someone were teaching you how to drive, and told you to stop focusing on the lines on the road and just focus on where you are going...

I really like that analogy. It helps me better understand the rub.

 

[11822]

Exactly. It's for people who know not the way: those who remain in their sins.

Isn't that a reason to let the law be taught, not the OC law, just the law the apostles teach us, so people will see how they have strayed and seek Grace and obedience to Gods will?

 

[Nanopants]

Isn't that a reason to let the law be taught, not the OC law, just the law the apostles teach us, so people will see how they have strayed and seek Grace and obedience to Gods will?

Nobody is saying it shouldn't be taught. What I'm saying is if you let that be your primary focus, you're doing it wrong.

 

[11822]

Nobody is saying it shouldn't be taught. What I'm saying is if you let that be your primary focus, you're doing it wrong.

I disagree, and i think we shouldn't debate that because we need to follow our individual consciences. The laws the apostles teach includes the law of faith and it doesn't take our focus off of Jesus IMO.

 

[cubinity]

Nobody is saying it shouldn't be taught. What I'm saying is if you let that be your primary focus, you're doing it wrong.

I agree with this! Great distinction.

 

[11822]

If my conscience tells me that i am not holy and i should seek to be holy, who is someone else to tell me i'm doing wrong by focusing on that? I should obey my conscience, and telling me different only tears me down and makes me feel judged.

 

[Nanopants]

Such is the walk of a man who cannot see where he is going: he guides himself only by that which he can reach out and touch, because he has no light to guide him.

 

[11822]

Such is the walk of a man who cannot see where he is going: he guides himself only by that which he can reach out and touch, because he has no light to guide him.

Who are we to judge one another? God is able to make us stand, the Lord is the author and finisher or our faith. God directs us, not man and his theology.

 

[Nanopants]

I testify only of the things I have seen with my own eyes. God is able to restore sight to the blind, I cannot.

 

[from scratch]

Who is encouraging sin then?

If someone were teaching you how to drive, and told you to stop focusing on the lines on the road and just focus on where you are going, would you make the same criticism?

Amazingly enough at truck driving school they have a hard tiem getting students to change their vision pattern from down to out and up. That was very interesting and hard to do. Ever miss where you were going? Looking down is a primary cause.

I think that people do this with their lives as well. I also think it is a problem for the pro law camp as well.

 

[fhansen]

Such is the walk of a man who cannot see where he is going: he guides himself only by that which he can reach out and touch, because he has no light to guide him.

The law is supposed to be a reflection of our conscience, which is supposed to have Gods' law already written in it, but darkened and obscured by sin.The two, law and conscience, should compliment each other. Our minds should recognize and be awakened by Gods' law when we we hear it because it resonates with our consciences.

 

[Nanopants]

The law is supposed to be a reflection of our conscience, which is supposed to have Gods' law already written in it, but darkened and obscured by sin.The two, law and conscience, should compliment each other. Our minds should recognize and be awakened by Gods' law when we we hear it because it resonates with our consciences.

The law is a shadow of things revealed, openly, if one would only have faith enough to see it.

 

[from scratch]

If my conscience tells me that i am not holy and i should seek to be holy, who is someone else to tell me i'm doing wrong by focusing on that? I should obey my conscience, and telling me different only tears me down and makes me feel judged.

Assumming one is a Christian and having this problem they must be focusing on the performance of the flesh. This isn't hard for me to understand knowing what takes place in the average evangelical church. I wager it take s place in others aw well. Keeps congragants in line and scared of losing their salvation. Oh that people would read the Bible. I don't mean a verse here and a verse there.

 

[from scratch]

Such is the walk of a man who cannot see where he is going: he guides himself only by that which he can reach out and touch, because he has no light to guide him.

Now that preaches real good!

 

[11822]

Act_24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.

Rom_2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their though

Rom_13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

Ti_1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

1Ti_1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

Co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
1Co 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
1Co 10:30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
1Co 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
1Co 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

 

[11822]

Assumming one is a Christian and having this problem they must be focusing on the performance of the flesh. This isn't hard for me to understand knowing what takes place in the average evangelical church. I wager it take s place in others aw well. Keeps congragants in line and scared of losing their salvation. Oh that people would read the Bible. I don't mean a verse here and a verse there.

I told you its not about perfecting the flesh but its about obedience to God. Its about perfecting Holiness in the fear of God. My conscience is my own. I'll talk to you guys later. Good night.

 

[from scratch]

Leviticus 10:10
And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;


1 Timothy 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

I find it amazing that you would quote this for support for anything. Haven't you read it? It says very clearly that the law is made for teh lawless and disobedient....

Who are the righteous? They can't be lawless, disobedient, unholy and profane, murdererers...

 

[from scratch]

No its not, and i have said that before,you may recall it. I also said that to know whats good and bad and do bad instead of Good is sin which is another reason to not steal, i don't think we love God or our neighbor as our self by doing evil to our neighbor or in any other way.

The focus is out of focus. You focus on the nots or negatives and I focus on the shalls or positives. Because of this I don't think of stealing. Therefore it is foreign to me when I attemp to do it automaticly alerting me to the sin I'm about to do. This prevents me from stealing. A bank teller doesn't have to look at a bill to tell if it is conterfeit. It is automatic because it feels different. they handle enough to know by touch. Yeah sight doesn't hurt them much either.

 

[11822]

The focus is out of focus. You focus on the nots or negatives and I focus on the shalls or positives. Because of this I don't think of stealing. Therefore it is foreign to me when I attemp to do it automaticly alerting me to the sin I'm about to do. This prevents me from stealing. A bank teller doesn't have to look at a bill to tell if it is conterfeit. It is automatic because it feels different. they handle enough to know by touch. Yeah sight doesn't hurt them much either.

We should focus on what God tells us to in the written word and allow our conscience to direct us. Right now my conscience is telling me to not let you aggravate me.

 

[from scratch]

But if taken to its logical conclusion, aren't you saying you've reached perfection now-that you have no desire to sin-ever-and therefore no need to be vigilant/on guard lest you fall?

Not really. The act is foreign and unnatural to me which makes me uncomrtable. If I proceed and sin it really gets my attention. So I automatically avoid such things. For instance I was on a trip with a married woman that suggested we go intimate clothing shopping. I didn't even have to think it was an automatic no.