Holiness

[from scratch]

So what's the point you're making? Is it that we don't need to do anything to follow holiness because we're already holy?

I'd say his statement is sumpin like dat. What is holy? Or how does something become holy? Is it a gradual thing?

 

[from scratch]

Interesting how Paul here seems to see us as glorified, done already. Right in there with the past tense justified.

Rom 8:30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

And excellent point.

 

[Frogster]

So what's the point you're making? Is it that we don't need to do anything to follow holiness because we're already holy?

Do you see how alot of your posts are based of a 'we have to' kind of mindset? Interesting.

 

[Frogster]

We train puppies, puppies have to poop outside, puppies have to stay off the couch, not bark to much, they have to follow rules, if they don't they are scolded, if they do good, they get a biscuit. Christians on the other hand, walk by a different set of principles.

 

[JRSut1000]

So you're saying we don't get chastized by Him when we sin? What happens to Hebrews 12?

 

[JRSut1000]

And there is a "we have to", can't avoid that one! Being a Christian DOES have responsibilities and part of that IS obeying whatever He commands whether it's in His Word, or whether it's personal (prophetic) direction He gives us.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
What is your view on the ECF's? Just curious

http://www.christianforums.com/t7263.../#post47928988
Did the ECFs really know/understand the Scriptures better?

I read LLOJ thread he posted a link for and think it means early christian followers. i voted yes

You can read more about them here

Church Fathers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Church Fathers, Early Church Fathers, Christian Fathers, or Fathers of the Church were early and influential theologians, eminent Christian teachers and great bishops. Their scholarly works were used as a precedent for centuries to come (see Proto-orthodox Christianity).

The term was used of writers and teachers of the Church, not necessarily "saints", though most are honoured as saints in the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox Churches, as well as in some other Christian groups; notably, the heretics Origen and Tertullian (as described hereinbelow) are generally reckoned as Church Fathers. A rough classification of these patristic writings is as: Apostolic Fathers and the 2nd century; 3rd century; 4th century; 5th century; and 6th century.[1][2]

 

[New_Wineskin]

And there is a "we have to", can't avoid that one! Being a Christian DOES have responsibilities and part of that IS obeying whatever He commands whether it's in His Word, or whether it's personal (prophetic) direction He gives us.

You kept changing number . You went from "we" to "a Christian" to "us" .
There is no "*we* have to" unless *we* will all be judged by any singular one of us not doing the "have to" . If we are not punished all together , we don't have a "have to" together .

 

[JRSut1000]

As an ex-English major in college...too much grammar to follow!

 

[Frogster]

So you're saying we don't get chastized by Him when we sin? What happens to Hebrews 12?

Amen, if people are heading into apostasy, be reverting to the old cov, as per the context of Hebrews, then praise the Lord, that he does intervene.

 

[Frogster]

And there is a "we have to", can't avoid that one! Being a Christian DOES have responsibilities and part of that IS obeying whatever He commands whether it's in His Word, or whether it's personal (prophetic) direction He gives us.

Yes, and he commanded those reverting back to law, this...no shrinking back...


Hebrews 10:38 but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back,
my soul has no pleasure in him."

39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

 

[Frogster]

As an ex-English major in college...too much grammar to follow!

Our brother NW is a mathematician.

 

[New_Wineskin]

As an ex-English major in college...too much grammar to follow!

Yep - English should be scrapped . Maybe a Euro-language can be invented with no exceptions and no strange things in it .

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

As an ex-English major in college...too much grammar to follow!

Yep - English should be scrapped . Maybe a Euro-language can be invented with no exceptions and no strange things in it .

Imagine trying the grammar in the greek

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

1 Thessalonians 3:13 Into the stand-fast of ye the hearts blameless in holy-togetherness/agiw-sunh <42> before the God and Father of us, in the parousia <3952> of the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, with all of the holy-ones/agiwn <40> of Him
[Zech 14:5/Matt 24:3/Revelation 19:11]

http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

Strong's Number G42 matches the Greek &#7937;&#947;&#953;&#969;&#963;&#8059;&#957;&#951; (hagi&#333;syn&#275;), which occurs 3 times in 3 verses in the Greek concordance

42. hagiosune hag-ee-o-soo'-nay from 40; sacredness (i.e. properly, the quality):--holiness.
40. hagios hag'-ee-os from hagos (an awful thing) (compare 53, 2282); sacred (physically, pure, morally blameless or religious, ceremonially, consecrated):--(most) holy (one, thing), saint.
4862. sun soon a primary preposition denoting union; with or together (but much closer than 3326 or 3844),

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by JRSut1000 As an ex-English major in college...too much grammar to follow!

Originally Posted by New_Wineskin Yep - English should be scrapped . Maybe a Euro-language can be invented with no exceptions and no strange things in it .

Imagine trying the grammar in the greek

Speaking of english grammar, I just happen to remember a thread on that

http://www.christianforums.com/t7483715/
Basic Grammar for GT, Courtesy of Mel and GCC

Nothing ruins your argument and credibility more than a poorly phrased post. If your post looks like a 2nd grader wrote it, it doesn't matter how good your argument is. I'm far, FAR less likely to take you seriously. So, because I'm a grammar freak and twitch and die a little every time somebody confuses your and you're, a basic grammar (and posting) lesson for all the denizens of GT:<snip>..............

 

[from scratch]

What confuses me a little about the definition of righteousness is even though we are declared righteous, the verse you posted seems to suggest that maybe we can do righteousness also. And the bible also says that all scripture is profitable in the instruction of righteousness. This seems to confuse the subject of righteousness a little. But it really doesn't matter i guess, we're instructed what to do and not do anyways, so definitions aren't really so important maybe. I don't know

It is interesting if one looks back to the Greek. him that doeth is from a word meaning procduces bears fruit. So him that bears fruit of righteousness is righteous.

 

[from scratch]

What confuses me a little about the definition of righteousness is even though we are declared righteous, the verse you posted seems to suggest that maybe we can do righteousness also. And the bible also says that all scripture is profitable in the instruction of righteousness. This seems to confuse the subject of righteousness a little. But it really doesn't matter i guess, we're instructed what to do and not do anyways, so definitions aren't really so important maybe. I don't know

So I have a question. How can one do anything if they don't understand what they're being told to do?

 

[from scratch]

They are depending upon motive.
The confusion that bothers me more is between salvation & justification.

One can have justification without salvation but one can't have salvation without justification. Of course I speak on 2 different levels here.

 

[Thekla]

So I have a question. How can one do anything if they don't understand what they're being told to do?

Sometimes the understanding comes from the doing; in obeying/doing the commands of Christ.

(Learning by doing is a human way of learning - including math )

 

[from scratch]

God told me to follow anything Jesus and His apostles say to follow. Does that make me a legalistic enemy of the Cross? I don't like hearing people shout from the rooftops that following the Sabbath makes someone an enemy of the cross because its wrong. I learned that from the apostles. Its not legalistic, its biblical.

Didn't answer the question?