Holiness

[Frogster]

Exactly.. it is a state of being that the Lord has identified and with His descriptions we can discern the difference.

I thought we are not to sit around pondering the lower nature, but reckon it dead, Rom 11:6, and be ye cleansed?


Or do we want dead works?

Heb 9:14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

 

[11822]

It's right there in your quote. Paul just got done telling Tim, to get the law people away from the church, and the law is not for the church....

7desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.

You don't seem to understand either.

 

[from scratch]

You don't seem to understand either.

Since you do please explain.

 

[11822]

Since you do please explain.

No thanks.

 

[from scratch]

So free from sin means you don't sin, or that it's not counted against you?

Not quite. You intend to mean the flesh which is incapable of obedience to the law and has received its unrevokable sentence to death. I don't think you have condiered the soul in your equasion.

 

[from scratch]

Have to get "in Him" right..to even come close to "might become".

So I guess I need to ask how does one get in Him. Please make a full inclusive statement/defense.

 

[from scratch]

Then are you saying that the righteousness, that Christ gave us, His righteousness, was not complete? It was an exchange. Peter said it too, the just, for the unjust in 1 Peter 3:18.

Great point and question.

 

[from scratch]

The law is a guidepost, pointing out our sin. But aren’t you basically saying you have no sin? –that you’ve arrived, so to speak, and are led by the Spirit continuously? Do you really mean to say that? I mean, the opposite of sin is love. Are you so sold out to love that you never sin? I mean, are you saying that it doesn't matter if you sin, since you're forgiven and living under grace, or that you don't sin?

Grace and the love of God have been equated to each other by some theologians, FWIW.

Ah no I do rebel at times and have to make use of I John 1:9-2:1. I identify with Paul in his confession of Romans 7. I admit to the problem found in Rom 12 about the sacrifice.

OTH the law isn't or doesn't apply to the Christian per I Tim 1:8-10.

The implication that I'm wicked is a far cry from the truth. If that is so there is no such thing as salvation. It is all covered in the NT.

 

[Nanopants]

The problem with that is it sounds as if we must not only abandon law, but also holiness along with it. If we stay away from this law:

Romans 7:12 KJV Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

then really we are also staying away from holiness.

I know you are not saying/promoting this at all, Frogster! I just point it out because, when looking at it prima facie, I find it a very difficult thing to fathom; that I must, as a Christian, throw out a holy law, which Paul himself says he serves in Rom. 7:25.

Neither the law nor obedience to it can make us holy. Only God is holy. If we follow after him and receive his Spirit, then we are and can be holy.

... be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith...

(Phl 3:9)

 

[11822]

I feel bad for any one trying to learn what holiness is by reading this thread.

 

[cubinity]

I feel bad for any one trying to learn what holiness is by reading this thread.

What is holiness?

Obedience to the law, or identification and assimilation with the heart of Christ, or something else?

 

[11822]

What is holiness?

Obedience to the law, or identification and assimilation with the heart of Christ, or something else?

I'm not sure, i know what my conscience tells me is right and wrong and i follow that as much as i can. If we can't follow after holiness as some people seem to say, then why does the bible tell us to be holy in all manner of conversation, and to abstain from fornication if these things don't describe Holiness? Holiness may even mean having Faith in Christ, i'm not sure, but i now this thread is just confusing.

 

[11822]

Some say not to follow anything but Christ to be holy, but doesn't that include following the teaching of His apostles which tell us to be holy in all manner of conversation and to abstain from fornication? If i obey that teaching am i not following Christ? They say don't focus on the teaching focus on Christ, However if i focus on that teaching am i not focusing on Christ who teaches it?

 

[visionary]

What is holiness?

Obedience to the law, or identification and assimilation with the heart of Christ, or something else?

In word, in heart and in deed.

 

[cubinity]

Some say not to follow anything but Christ to be holy, but doesn't that include following the teaching of His apostles which tell us to be holy in all manner of conversation and to abstain from fornication? If i obey that teaching am i not following Christ? They say don't focus on the teaching focus on Christ, However if i focus on that teaching am i not focusing on Christ who teaches it?

Have you ever driven down a street for the hundredth time, but this time with someone who has never been, and had that person ask you, ''What is the speed limit on this road?'' only to realize you don't know, although you've never violated it. That is holiness. It's when the law itself doesn't even matter anymore because it is just intuitive for you to do what its maker expects you to do.

 

[11822]

Have you ever driven down a street for the hundredth time, but this time with someone who has never been, and had that person ask you, ''What is the speed limit on this road?'' only to realize you don't know, although you've never violated it. That is holiness. It's when the law itself doesn't even matter anymore because it is just intuitive for you to do what its maker expects you to do.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. It kinda sounds logical. I see holiness as what the apostles teach is holy. The apostles teaching isn't the law, its our guide, so if we follow that we're putting our trust in Christ and not the law. Its just teaching that we should follow in faith. Its simple and effective. If that teaching was wrong to follow then it wouldn't be taught in the first place. If all we needed to do was focus on Christ and not his teaching also, then He wouldn't have taught it to us.

 

[visionary]

I have been in the Presence of Holy.. and sin hung off me like snot [even though I had just confessed and repented of all sins that He brought to my mind ]

I was like Isaiah.. crying Woe is me.. unclean... I wanted to throw bury under the earth, the overwhelming shamefulness of my state in comparison to His Holy Being. He threw His robe of righteousness on my shoulders and I was able to stand. So I can say with deep conviction..

Holy is not just something posted on doors, altars, books, and just a title. It is very real and it emanates from His being. I can relate very well to the moment when the priests, soldiers and Judas all went out that night to meet with Yeshua.

John 18:6As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

It is that overwhelming conviction.. that blows the shock of reality through the people's soul that causes them to fall backwards, down to their knees, expressing the unworthiness to even be in His Presence... of course, everyone is going to react differently.. but at the same time, everyone will bow the knee someday soon and declare, He is Lord.

 

[Frogster]

Since you do please explain.

u tried..you asked, u tried to leave the elementals...

 

[Nanopants]

You don't seem to understand either.

I think it's very clear that you believe that following the written letter is tantamount to picking up your cross. Am I correct?

If this is correct, what is your motivation?

 

[Frogster]

I have been in the Presence of Holy.. and sin hung off me like snot [even though I had just confessed and repented of all sins that He brought to my mind ]

I was like Isaiah.. crying Woe is me.. unclean... I wanted to throw bury under the earth, the overwhelming shamefulness of my state in comparison to His Holy Being. He threw His robe of righteousness on my shoulders and I was able to stand. So I can say with deep conviction..

Holy is not just something posted on doors, altars, books, and just a title. It is very real and it emanates from His being. I can relate very well to the moment when the priests, soldiers and Judas all went out that night to meet with Yeshua.

John 18:6As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

It is that overwhelming conviction.. that blows the shock of reality through the people's soul that causes them to fall backwards, down to their knees, expressing the unworthiness to even be in His Presence... of course, everyone is going to react differently.. but at the same time, everyone will bow the knee someday soon and declare, He is Lord.

So long as law makes you relate to the old creation, it will bind the conscience, creating a connection to the past, we were born again. I would advise an in depth study or Rom, 6, to see how we died to sin, law, and flesh, and are raised up...


That is the problem with law sanctification, it is what they had at the temple, that God allowed to crumble, for a reason.

It is quite clear, that we don't want sin reminder Christianity, that is not Holiness..the author wanted, ONCE FOR ALL CLEANSING OF GUILT...


1Otherwise, would they not have ceased being offered, since the worshippers, cleansed once for all, would no longer have any consciousness of sin? 3But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sin year after year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.