Hocus Pocus ????

[DArceri]

Pax Vobis, from
the Catholic Crusader

What is an indulgence? The Church explains, "An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain defined conditions through the Church’s help when, as a minister of redemption, she dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions won by Christ and the saints" (Indulgentarium Doctrina 1).

Wow....thats a mouthful. Can someone interpret that for me? It seems to me Catholics have to spend more time trying to interpret their own doctrine than scripture. New words, new definitions, that is tough stuff.

 

[Rick Otto]

I think Trento just did a great job of illustrating the difference between Christianity & Christendom.

Wow....thats a mouthful. Can someone interpret that for me?

Sounds like seminary lawyer language for a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card.

 

[Catholic Christian]

They aren't. It was and is just another doctrine that has nothing to do with genuine Christianity.

And who are you to decide what "genuine Christianity" is? Let me tell you, I always read posts by people like you stating what "Christians" believe and don't believe, as if you are the Pope. How can you, who are part of a group that represents less than 20% of all Christians say what Christians believe? Here are some simple facts:

The total number of Christians in the world is: 2.1 billion. This is how it breaks down:
1) Catholics: 1.3 billion
2) Eastern Orthodox: 0.4 billion
3) Protestansts (Baptists, Lutherans, etc. etc): 0.4 billion

In light of these statistics, how can a group that represents less than 20% of Christians say what Christians believe? Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The heretical protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing.

 

[mont974x4]

isn't this, instead, a comment on the spiritual condition of the rich man and his brothers ?

That certainly is part of the account.

 

[mont974x4]

And who are you to decide what "genuine Christianity" is? Let me tell you, I always read posts by people like you stating what "Christians" believe and don't believe, as if you are the Pope. How can you, who are part of a group that represents less than 20% of all Christians say what Christians believe? Here are some simple facts:

The total number of Christians in the world is: 2.1 billion. This is how it breaks down:
1) Catholics: 1.3 billion
2) Eastern Orthodox: 0.4 billion
3) Protestansts (Baptists, Lutherans, etc. etc): 0.4 billion

In light of these statistics, how can a group that represents less than 20% of Christians say what Christians believe? Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The heretical protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing.

Because we don't need a pope to know what the Bible says.


Statistics mean nothing. Sheer numbers of people believing something to be true does not make it true.


Besides, the rcc did not exist in the time of Christ and it certainly is not the one true Church...although there are rc's that are members of His Church. It's just another denomination, no matter how many times people deny it.

 

[Catholic Christian]

.. the rcc did not exist in the time of Christ and it certainly is not the one true Church...

Your obvious anti-Catholic [staff edit] position [/staff edit] is clouding your view of history. The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

In fact, I have noticed that you seem to follow right on the heals of many of my posts with anti-Catholic replies and blatant untrue statements. Maybe you should be more concerned with the truth, and a little less concerned with bashing the Church.

 

[TraderJack]

And who are you to decide what "genuine Christianity" is?

I tell you who I am. I am a child of God, saved by the Grace of God Alone, through faith in Christ Alone, and not of any works of righteousness I have done, and who is commanded by God in the Apostolic Tradition recorded and preserved in the Holy Scriptures to test the spirits to see if they are of God.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Why does John give that admonition?

"because many false prophets have gone out into the world."

God gives me and every genuine Christian that authority, no matter what Rome says.

Let me tell you, I always read posts by people like you stating what "Christians" believe and don't believe, as if you are the Pope.

No, I tell you what God's Word says. There is a big difference between what God says in His Word and that which evolved in the Roman Catholic religion.

By the way, the pope is not, never has been, and never will be the "supreme ruler of the church".

How can you, who are part of a group that represents less than 20% of all Christians say what Christians believe? Here are some simple facts:

The total number of Christians in the world is: 2.1 billion. This is how it breaks down:
1) Catholics: 1.3 billion

Well that large number sure is impressive.

Let's see what God/Jesus has to say about that large number.

Matthew 7:12-14

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Looks like the "many" are on the path to destruction and the few on the path of eternal life.

In light of these statistics, how can a group that represents less than 20% of Christians say what Christians believe?

Try this on for size.

Because firstly you begin with a false premise that because Romanism has a larger number of adherents that it is correct.

Secondly, because Jesus said that larger number is on the path of destruction.

Thirdly, because God commands His sheep to test the spirits, and when one knows the truth as Jesus said, they are set free, and can know a counterfeit.

The Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus.

You know what, that is nothing more than a regurgitated Roman Catholic cliche that has nothing to do with the facts.

The fact is, the Church had it's origin in Jerusalem and in the eastern part of the Roman Empire.

But please don't let facts get in the way of believing the false premise as you stated above.

 

[Catholic Christian]

[/b] I tell you who I am. I am a child of God.

Ah, I see. So that gives you the right to tell 1.8 billion Christians they are wrong, eh? <staff edit>
As far as the majority being right goes: You put those words in my mouth. I never said that. I merely said that YOU do not have the right to say that everyone else is wrong. Speak for yourself, not for me.

 

[TraderJack]

Ah, I see. So that gives you the right to tell 1.8 billion Christians they are wrong, eh?

There you go reading things that do not exist.

Try reading what is actually said instead of what is not said.

The negativity in your post tells me that this grace you claim you are saved by is not working very well in you.

It's working as well as the Grace in Paul who said the following when defending the True Gospel against the forerunners of the church of Rome, the Judaizers:

2 Corinthians 11:

12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

Strip away your veneer of Christianity and at heart you are little more than an anti-Catholic bigot.

And you know what, that is the typical response of Roman Catholics when they are confronted with opposition to aspects of their religion, being with personal insults, name calling and to play the victim card.

As far as the majority being right goes: You put those words in my mouth. I never said that.

Hmmmmmmmm, there you go seeing things that do not exist again.

You offered those numbers as evidence of the larger number being the true.

I merely exposed it's fallacy with God's Word.

I merely said that YOU do not have the right to say that everyone else is wrong. Speak for yourself, not for me.

I have not said "everybody else is wrong". So, please refrain from misrepresenting what I say when you see things that do not exist.

By the way, I CAN say YOU ARE WRONG!

After all, YOU and [staff edit]Catholicism[/staff edit] says I, and Protestants are wrong.

You don't think that YOU and Roman Catholics are the only one's that have that freedom do you?

It's called....FREEDOM!

What do you have against freedom?

 

[mont974x4]

Your obvious anti-Catholic <staff edit> is clouding your view of history. The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius&#8217;s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

In fact, I have noticed that you seem to follow right on the heals of many of my posts with anti-Catholic replies and blatant untrue statements. Maybe you should be more concerned with the truth, and a little less concerned with bashing the Church.

I am very concerned with the truth, which is why I point out the lies and errors of the rcc. Peoples souls are at risk.


catholic churchg, as in Christs universal Church...I would whole heartedly agree with.


The redefining of words and revisionist history I will stand against, as I will stand against false doctrines as His Word commands us to.

 

[TraderJack]

I am very concerned with the truth, which is why I point out the lies and errors of the rcc. Peoples souls are at risk.


catholic churchg, as in Christs universal Church...I would whole heartedly agree with.


The redefining of words and revisionist history I will stand against, as I will stand against false doctrines as His Word commands us to.

By the way, I'm e-mailing that $3.65 for some Starbucks coffee, so be on the lookout.

 

[mont974x4]

LOL your PM box is full.

 

[TraderJack]

Strip away your veneer of Christianity and at heart you are little more than an anti-Catholic bigot.

Tell us something Terry, why is it that so many Roman Catholics when faced with opposition and challenges to your cliched beliefs resort to name calling, personal insults like you have done calling Protestants "anti-Catholic bigots", which is insulting name calling and playing the victim card?

Does it really frustrate you that much that we don't blindly trust your religion as you do?

Or is it because in Roman Catholicism, as has been stated here many times, citing Catherine of Sienna, who said it is a virtue to mock and insult those who oppose Rome?

 

[TraderJack]

LOL your PM box is full.

I know.

Making room now.

 

[TraderJack]

Wow....thats a mouthful. Can someone interpret that for me? It seems to me Catholics have to spend more time trying to interpret their own doctrine than scripture. New words, new definitions, that is tough stuff.

And it's constantly changing too.

Now you can understand why so many Roman Catholics try to have it both ways and cannot recognize the contradictions in their own religion.

 

[Melethiel]

Thread closed for review and cleanup.

 

[stumpjumper]

Thread cleaned and reopened.

Please post with peace and respect for other members. "That they may all be one" was not just a cool line

 

[Rick Otto]

So what are we gonna do, Jack?
It's a forum for cryin' out loud.
Is there a field manual on sugar coating poison pills?
I say living well is the best re,... uh, resort.
Can you help me find this quote I'm looking for by St. Francis Xavier, about believing whatever the Mother Church tells him, even if it's ~?
I know he's famous for sayin' somethin like give me a child until he's seven & ~.

 

[Rick Otto]

Ah, I see. So that gives you the right to tell 1.8 billion Christians they are wrong, eh? <staff edit>
As far as the majority being right goes: You put those words in my mouth. I never said that. I merely said that YOU do not have the right to say that everyone else is wrong. Speak for yourself, not for me.

I don't get this.
1st ammendment says I can say the sky is green all day long & tell 6 billion human beings they are wrong.
Where do you get this "you do not have the right to say" attitude?
Could it be from The Syllabus of Errors?

Maybe we should start over.
What are ya drinkin'? I'm buyin'.

 

[stumpjumper]

Try the Barenaked Ladies :shrug:

They do tend to have hard to find tunes with accompanying lyrics...