High gas prices? Blame the real culprits.

[TheReasoner]

And it's gonna be real bad for the world when America goes into a recesion because of outrageous gas prices.

It's going be even worse when everyday Joe America can't afford to drive to work. That comes when gas hits about 6$ a gallon. Then it will be blood for oil.

lol
Yes, it will be terrible when you guys reform and start poluting less. Goodness, maybe it will be so bad that our ancient forests may yet survive. Or worse, what if we actually miss out on some global warming.

Nay, raise them high before we have to face more dire consequences when we run out, or environmental consequences get even worse than they are.
I am sick of the USA polluting like hell (more or less literally) and acting like they have a right ro ignore the rest of the world and the consequences of their actions.
It is HIGH time the USA also got a bit responsible. Your gas prices are ridiculously low, and you complain more than we do about it. You're like a junkie. It's time you got through de-tox.

I echo; Raise them high. Real high.

 

[Borealis]

The answer, Borealis, is simple: Gas refineries. All the crude oil in the world won't move your car one single foot.

And who is opposed to the building of more refineries to increase the gasoline supply? Not conservatives.

 

[TheReasoner]

And who is opposed to the building of more refineries to increase the gasoline supply? Not conservatives.

Stop the labelling. It is inaccurate and elitist.

We do not need any more refineries. We need to create a demand - a serious demand - for alternative sources. We need to create this demand now, before we run out of oil and it becomes a real crisis.

There are many uses for oil, and probably a lot we do not yet know. Burning it is not merely silly, it is darn dumb. We only have so much. Let us save what we have, and consume what can be consumed. Using oil like we do now is only serving our needs right now. But will harm us tomorrow. It is like stifling today's hunger by eating one's own leg.
The world, life, is not a game. It is not a computer program. We can neither cheat nor press control-z to undo past mistakes. We get one shot. That's all. And right now, we are using this world in a way which makes it seem like we cannot get rid of it soon enough.

 

[MethodMan]

Stop the labelling. It is inaccurate and elitist.

We do not need any more refineries. We need to create a demand - a serious demand - for alternative sources. We need to create this demand now, before we run out of oil and it becomes a real crisis.

But you don't articifcally creat it by raising taxes (taking even more money out of the economy). Inovation works toward a need, not force. How do you propose to creat this "Need" without Gov't interference?

 

[TheReasoner]

But you don't articifcally creat it by raising taxes (taking even more money out of the economy). Inovation works toward a need, not force. How do you propose to creat this "Need" without Gov't interference?

Sometimes, when a need is about to prsent itself, but it has not yet. A government is responsible at least in part - for securing the future of the nation it is governing. This can on occasion mean heavy regulation of certain things. In this instance, oil and gas.
Oil and gas is fairly cheap today. We know that will change when availability drops. Which could take a few decades. Long enough for the regular joe not to worry. Long enough for most companies and corporations not to give much concern. But for a nation, 40-60 years is not a lot of time. Changes need to be done now. And this is the government and the people's responsability. You cannot simly hide your head under the pillow and wish for this monster to go away. It will keep growing unless we deal with it now.


Furthermore, raising taxes is not about taking money out of the economy. It is using the economy to benefit the people, thus creating a stronger foundation for the nation's future economy. Unless you waste it on guns and similar things. Like the USA does to a far too large extent. Tax is not theft, tax is constructive, not constrictive. It is liberating, not economically terminating. Yes, it means you will have less money right here and now. But saying that taxation removes money from the economy is outright wrong. When taxation is implemented with the right concerns and the right administration it benefits the nation immensely. Tax helps the nation's future inhabitants get a good education, it helps secure a healthy population. It helps secure a good infrastructure. It helps secure a good police force, eliminate much/most of the need for corruption due to low pay in government jobs.
Without tax we would have a society based on very similar rules Al Capone used. It would indeed be a mobster's paradise.
Some tax is needed. Sometimes tax can be used to regulate certain articles and goods that need regulation. Here, we put heavy taxes on alcohol and gasoline to raise the prices thereof and create a greater need for collective transportation, and reduce the excessive consumption of alcohol. While it does not work perfectly, it does work. Today I do not own a car, and I do not have a driver's licence simply because it is simple, easy and quite a bit cheaper to use collective transportation such as buses and trains. I can reach any part of this country by using nothing more than collective transportation and my own legs.
This saves us from loads of pollution. It helps traffic go more smoothly and it reduces health problems like asthma in densely populated area.

I do not propose to create the need without "government interferrence" (you forget that in a democratic nation you are part of the government. Are you afraid of yourself?). The need is already present, but it must be - I believe - encouraged by the government. Encouraged by tax cuts to those who excel at the issue and tax increments to those who stick to less beneficial methods of transportation, or energy consumption.
I believe we need to encourage and reward those who embrace beneficial change, and encourage and promote change to those who do not.

 

[MethodMan]

Sometimes, when a need is about to prsent itself, but it has not yet. A government is responsible at least in part - for securing the future of the nation it is governing. This can on occasion mean heavy regulation of certain things. In this instance, oil and gas.

ANYTIME the Gov't gets involve with price fixing, they can hardly have room to complain whne companies do something to protect themsleves. PArt of the reason we became so dependent of foriegn sources of oil was when the Gov't used price controls that drove the business off shore.

Oil and gas is fairly cheap today. We know that will change when availability drops. Which could take a few decades.

I have been listening to this song and dance for over thirty years. Haven't seen any evidence to support that conclusion just yet.

Long enough for the regular joe not to worry. Long enough for most companies and corporations not to give much concern. But for a nation, 40-60 years is not a lot of time. Changes need to be done now. And this is the government and the people's responsability. You cannot simly hide your head under the pillow and wish for this monster to go away. It will keep growing unless we deal with it now.

The only possible way the Gov't could get involved would be to support the creation of alternative methods. Not forcing.

Furthermore, raising taxes is not about taking money out of the economy. It is using the economy to benefit the people, thus creating a stronger foundation for the nation's future economy.

That's a load of donkey dip. Gov't uses that money to control, period.

 

[nvxplorer]

PArt of the reason we became so dependent of foriegn sources of oil was when the Gov't used price controls that drove the business off shore.

Our dependence on oil is irrelevant to where it is produced. Even if we were capable of producing the 21 million bbl per day that we consume, oil is traded globally, so the effect on price would be minimal.

 

[TheReasoner]

ANYTIME the Gov't gets involve with price fixing, they can hardly have room to complain whne companies do something to protect themsleves. PArt of the reason we became so dependent of foriegn sources of oil was when the Gov't used price controls that drove the business off shore.

No, your government has failed to keep business on your soil because of lacking control. You are capitalists. You are pro free trade. Free trade will drive labour off your soil, and it will drive it to nations where it is cheaper. Like China. China will not face this problem because China has control over their borders and export/import. As do we, and as opposed to you we have 3.5% unemployment, wherease you have 5.something.

I have been listening to this song and dance for over thirty years. Haven't seen any evidence to support that conclusion just yet.

So you believe oil will never end, and we can keep consuming like mad, always increasing our consumption before it will be a problem?
We have estimated that we only have enough oil for a few more decades for some time now. Thankfully we have so far been able to find more ways of getting oil, and more places to get it from, so it has not been an issue as foretold. Yet. But oil is a finite resource. Like steel. Or gold. You cannot create more of either one of those. You have a set amount, and then, it is gone.

The only possible way the Gov't could get involved would be to support the creation of alternative methods. Not forcing.

Really? How is this anything but encouraging? You are an American, do not your parents sometimes spank their children? Do not your government imprison it's criminals? Do you not support this? Do you not support the death penalty for incredibly hideous crimes? You may not, I hope you do not. But, regardless of that; You as most people, would support a punishment of criminals. So, why do you not support this mild encouragement by facilitationg the implementation of - on the long term - cheaper energy sources when the current consumption rate of oil is not only a crime against your nation, but in every way a crime against the entire world and our descendants? I do not propose jailtime for drivers or anything. I suggest we facilitate the transition to alternate methods. Like elimination of tax or reduction of tax on hybrids, and an increment on tax related to the consumption rate of the individual vehicle. If it consumes much gas, like a Hummer, put the taxes up. If it consumes little gas, lower the taxes. If it uses no gas, like an electrical car or a hydrogen powered one, eliminate the taxation of the car.

That's a load of donkey dip. Gov't uses that money to control, period.

*grin*
Yeah, I bet. With all due respect, I think a long term trip outside US borders would do your perception of governments good. What is democracy? It is not only that you can elect your own government. But rather that you can parttake in the ruling of your nation. If you believe a government's sole desire is to control, you are in for a serious shock when you realize how much worse the corporations are.
Your government may use the tax money to control. But I do not consider your government neither democratic nor representative for governation of a nation. Our government spends the tax money to build our nation. As does most socialistic democracies, if not all. Sweden, Denmark, Finland. None would have been where they are today had they thought as you do. Or indeed had what you say been true in those nations. And if what you say is true for yours, you need a Gandhi to change things.

 

[MethodMan]

No, your government has failed to keep business on your soil because of lacking control. You are capitalists. You are pro free trade. Free trade will drive labour off your soil, and it will drive it to nations where it is cheaper. Like China. China will not face this problem because China has control over their borders and export/import. As do we, and as opposed to you we have 3.5% unemployment, wherease you have 5.something.

Yet them illegals keep coming here to work. Why is that?

People keep coming here form other countries for the opportunity. Why is that?

So you believe oil will never end, and we can keep consuming like mad, always increasing our consumption before it will be a problem?

I don't know when. I was talking about the prediction you made when I responded. 40-60 year has been the prediction for 30 years now. Keeps moving.

We have estimated that we only have enough oil for a few more decades for some time now. Thankfully we have so far been able to find more ways of getting oil, and more places to get it from, so it has not been an issue as foretold. Yet. But oil is a finite resource. Like steel. Or gold. You cannot create more of either one of those. You have a set amount, and then, it is gone.

Yes, I have heard this for thirty years too.

Really? How is this anything but encouraging? You are an American, do not your parents sometimes spank their children? Do not your government imprison it's criminals? Do you not support this? Do you not support the death penalty for incredibly hideous crimes?

None of these are about innovation. These are about control. Thanks for the backup.

You may not, I hope you do not. But, regardless of that; You as most people, would support a punishment of criminals. So, why do you not support this mild encouragement by facilitationg the implementation of - on the long term - cheaper energy sources when the current consumption rate of oil is not only a crime against your nation, but in every way a crime against the entire world and our descendants?

Comsuption is now a crime? Tell me something. What are other nations doing?


[qtuoe]I do not propose jailtime for drivers or anything. I suggest we facilitate the transition to alternate methods. Like elimination of tax or reduction of tax on hybrids, and an increment on tax related to the consumption rate of the individual vehicle. If it consumes much gas, like a Hummer, put the taxes up. If it consumes little gas, lower the taxes. If it uses no gas, like an electrical car or a hydrogen powered one, eliminate the taxation of the car.[/quote]

Unfortunately, the people that pay for the Hummer gas are already paying more in taxes that the yugo drivers so you are there already.

*grin*
Yeah, I bet. With all due respect, I think a long term trip outside US borders would do your perception of governments good. What is democracy? It is not only that you can elect your own government. But rather that you can parttake in the ruling of your nation. If you believe a government's sole desire is to control, you are in for a serious shock when you realize how much worse the corporations are.

One look at what this Gov't has done over the last 50 years will SHOW you a thing or two. The Katrina disaster only proved that Gov't will fail without more control or less entitlement/reliance.

Your government may use the tax money to control. But I do not consider your government neither democratic nor representative for governation of a nation. Our government spends the tax money to build our nation. As does most socialistic democracies, if not all. Sweden, Denmark, Finland. None would have been where they are today had they thought as you do. Or indeed had what you say been true in those nations. And if what you say is true for yours, you need a Gandhi to change things.

Taxation is the only tool the Gov't has.

 

[TheReasoner]

But you don't articifcally creat it by raising taxes (taking even more money out of the economy). Inovation works toward a need, not force. How do you propose to creat this "Need" without Gov't interference?

Innovation works great under need, yes. And force. When is innovation the greatest? During war time. Where would our technology be if not for war?

A cynic would say war is good because it drives technological development. At least it did until now, when WMDs have become part of the picture.
I am not a cynic and prefer peaceful development.
But what you say about need, the need may be encouraged. It may be encouraged by emphasizing it's presence. As oil is a finite resource it should be taxed and priced thereafter. Each barrel you pump up is spent. It ain't coming back, and you know it. Thus, oil will become very very expensive when the supply drops beyond a certain level. And it will! Eventually.
It is MUCH better to face that now, and be very well prepared for it when the time comes, rather than ignore it as it seems you do, and let the individuals, companies and corporations consume as they have done until now.

You know as well as I do that a company will never do what is ethical if what is unethical is legal and economically beneficial. Their sole purpose is to make money. If given the opportunity, they would sell grandmothers on auction to cannibals - if there was no law or moral code preventing this. And indeed, they more or less have, and more or less still do. Slave trade... Big business, great example. Immoral, damaging beyond belief. Yet legal, and it was done. You can say that burning oil products do not really compare, and you are right. It does not. But at the same time, it does damage this world, and it does hurt our species, and other species. It does poison this planet, and that must be of great concern to us. I believe it would be unforgivable to not do anything, and as I believe slave traders deserve jailtime, so do I believe that those who consume gas need to pay more for this consumption. Especially in the USA, where you consume unbeievable amounts.

 

[Dragons87]

The real culprit for high gas prices is you, the consumer, and especially you, the American driver.

Whenever you get the idea that oil will run out one day and are really doing something about looking for alternative sources, the price of gasoline will stay up.

But then again, the oil corps and OPEC would quite like the price of gasoline to stay up, because they get to pocket big profits.

Sigh. Never mind. Profit rules. Consumers come second. The environment comes last.

 

[TheReasoner]

Yet them illegals keep coming here to work. Why is that?

People keep coming here form other countries for the opportunity. Why is that?

It means that you have a higher standard of living, and represent a dream which still exists this long after the immigrants who became the USA first entered it's borders. The dream mentioned on the statue of liberty, "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door." still lives on. And the USA still represents part of that dream. We have many illegal immigrants as well, for the same reason. We receive many more immigrants (compared to our number of inhabitants) than most European nations. Yet we still have a lower unemployment than you. I hear many capitalists claim that socialism causes unemployment and causes businesses to move off to other nations. So far I have more indications of this happening in the United States, the very definition of a capitalistic society on today's earth than on most if not all socialistic nations. I can only conclude that the capitalist perception, or rather the perception held by these capitalists is at the very least partially incorrect.

I don't know when. I was talking about the prediction you made when I responded. 40-60 year has been the prediction for 30 years now. Keeps moving.



Yes, I have heard this for thirty years too.

Like you have heard of judgement day for thirty years as well I believe. The end of the human race. The day USA will fall... Stuff like that. That it has not happened yet does not mean it does not. If you tell a fool playing russian roulette it may get him killed, and he answers "the five times I have pulled this trigger it has worked perfectly fine. One more pull will not hurt anyone"
....

It may not have run out yet. But eventually it will.

Comsuption is now a crime? Tell me something. What are other nations doing?

Consuming. Albeit less. Do not justify your own sins with the sins of another.

Unfortunately, the people that pay for the Hummer gas are already paying more in taxes that the yugo drivers so you are there already.

How is that unfortunate? They can afford it. The poor cannot. Let those who can at least partially help those who need the help the rich can offer without loosing much.

One look at what this Gov't has done over the last 50 years will SHOW you a thing or two. The Katrina disaster only proved that Gov't will fail without more control or less entitlement/reliance.

I have been looking as closely at your government as I have my own. And during the last fifty years it has shown that it is highly immoral, and highly... Well, I can't blame you for disliking your own government. Your nation is great. It really is. But your govt.... *shudder*

Taxation is the only tool the Gov't has.

 

[TheReasoner]

The real culprit for high gas prices is you, the consumer, and especially you, the American driver.

Whenever you get the idea that oil will run out one day and are really doing something about looking for alternative sources, the price of gasoline will stay up.

But then again, the oil corps and OPEC would quite like the price of gasoline to stay up, because they get to pocket big profits.

Sigh. Never mind. Profit rules. Consumers come second. The environment comes last.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dragons87 again.

 

[MethodMan]

It means that you have a higher standard of living, and represent a dream which still exists this long after the immigrants who became the USA first entered it's borders. The dream mentioned on the statue of liberty, "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door." still lives on. And the USA still represents part of that dream. We have many illegal immigrants as well, for the same reason. We receive many more immigrants (compared to our number of inhabitants) than most European nations. Yet we still have a lower unemployment than you. I hear many capitalists claim that socialism causes unemployment and causes businesses to move off to other nations. So far I have more indications of this happening in the United States, the very definition of a capitalistic society on today's earth than on most if not all socialistic nations. I can only conclude that the capitalist perception, or rather the perception held by these capitalists is at the very least partially incorrect.

Since we have a gov't, capitalism has been restrained. The issue at hand is "Do we squeeze harder or not"

Like you have heard of judgement day for thirty years as well I believe. The end of the human race. The day USA will fall... Stuff like that. That it has not happened yet does not mean it does not. If you tell a fool playing russian roulette it may get him killed, and he answers "the five times I have pulled this trigger it has worked perfectly fine. One more pull will not hurt anyone"
....

It may not have run out yet. But eventually it will.

But running a Gov't on fear is so much better?

Consuming. Albeit less. Do not justify your own sins with the sins of another.

Crime - Now a sin.

How is that unfortunate? They can afford it. The poor cannot. Let those who can at least partially help those who need the help the rich can offer without loosing much.

Now class envy.

I have been looking as closely at your government as I have my own. And during the last fifty years it has shown that it is highly immoral, and highly... Well, I can't blame you for disliking your own government. Your nation is great. It really is. But your govt.... *shudder*

I have yet to see ANY gov't that has acted out of anything but the pursuit to control. Our founding father put in checks and balances to keep the Gov't in check, not so the socialists could write checks and steal from other's balances.

 

[SummerMadness]

Gas prices are high because of the demand. What people need to do is start transitioning to an alternative form of energy because that will take just abotu as much time as it would to drill in the Gulf of Mexico or ANWR. I think it's rather pointless to try and suck up as much oil as possible when you can develop technologies that will dominate in the future. Why not get on the wave that will bring windfall later on instead of sticking with oil and then eventually have to buy future technologies from other countries (like Japan and hybrids)?

 

[TheReasoner]

Since we have a gov't, capitalism has been restrained. The issue at hand is "Do we squeeze harder or not"

No. The issue is "How do you squeeze what, and how much?". You Americans have a tendencee to squeeze the wrong things too hard. Like during the prohibition in the 20s, or the prohibition of use of horse meat in food in Florida (or was it California?). Or similar laws in different states.

But running a Gov't on fear is so much better?

Don't ask me. You're the American
Our government does not use fear in that way to get the population to support their decisions. Now, I do not know, but from what I have seen first and second hand of the American media and government fear is often implemented as a means of control.

Crime - Now a sin.

Pick your clichè. Fact is, it harms the earth. Wether you see it as a crime or a sin against humanity and this planet is up to you. Bottom line is, it is inexcusable to attempt justification of mindless polution with economy.

Now class envy.

Nay. No envy at all. I oppose to class division, and propose we attempt to eliminate the need for such lines in society. I propose we create a system where all human beings despite how much money they have still hold the same opportunities and rights. A system where the rich are not favored over the poor. Nor the poor over the rich. But a system where the poor are given what benefits they require to lead dignified lives while being a part of this society. And where the rich can retain some of their benefits while making a difference for the entire nation by participating in it's continued development through some taxation of them. They can afford it, and are of course given the same opportunities and rights as the poorer members of society.
This works here, let me know why it cannot work in the USA, through time.

I have yet to see ANY gov't that has acted out of anything but the pursuit to control. Our founding father put in checks and balances to keep the Gov't in check, not so the socialists could write checks and steal from other's balances.

Do you really believe we steal from ourselves?
The politicians are elected by the people. Not by the corporations. They stay in power - by the grace of the people. The tax money goes to different aspects of society. in the majority of the democratic society.
What we pay to the government is not spent on control, but rather on education, on healthcare, on securing a good infrastructure for our growing businesses and our population. Our tax money is spent on securing our children's future, and I have loads of statistics proving that this works.


Yes, I can see what you mean, and identify with it to some extent. But I do disagree on much of what I believe is behind your philosophy. I do not believe that freedom is the absence of control, but rather the presence of some level of control and some level of collective realization of responsability.
If you lack government control, there will be a power vacuum which will be filled with those who have the resources to grab such control for themselves; Corporations.

The result of such a twist is among other things laws like this . I feel it accurately describes one of the major problems I see with many current - and previous Western governments. They are too capitalistic, defense of property has become much more important than the defense of life, and indeed the defense of our children.

Now don't get me wrong, there are many things worth criticizing in any and all governments, but I do believe that your stance will only get you more trouble with yours. Yes, your government is handling things very poorly on many occasions. But I honestly believe that is because you have developed further down a line we have not. You have become so "obsessed" (in the lack of a better word) with your own freedom you sometimes fail to see that the freedom from government control has given you into the hands of profit driven corporations, so your society is much more profit and consumption oriented than ours.
I do not think that is very good.
I also believe that a government is not an evil you must have. I believe a government can be a blessing. If it was not for tax money, if it was not for government control my sisters' ME (or CFS) would have left my parents without a job, and without a home. Without a government helping out - enabled to do so by our tax kroner (our currency) my cousin would have been dead from the single most extreme case of CFS I know of, and her parents would be without home and work too.
You have insurance where we have our government. But unlike you, we can count on our "insurance" to be paid. Insurance policies can be hard for a layman to understand. And many times it will be refused paid because of the legal jumble a contract can present. If it is not explicitly stated that your particular disease is covered by the insurance, you're stuck. We're not.
I have had the pleasure of working closely with politicians and the top brass of the Norwegian army for over a year when I served as a corporal in the army. It is a pleasure and a joy to know just how little our government and military wants to control us, the population and how much they want to build this nation up.
There are of course exceptions like the FRP, but there are always exceptions.

 

[Alarum]

And who is opposed to the building of more refineries to increase the gasoline supply? Not conservatives.

And not liberals. How about capitalists, Borealis? Gas refineries aren't exactly cheap. I'm sure somebody will come up with some link saying that the cost of a gasoline refinery has everything to do with leftists, and nothing to do with the fact that you're spending long amounts of time manipulating flammable and explosive substances, filtering them, and moving them about, and a simple screwup will get lots of people killed... but those are the same people who think gas prices are going up because the evil left wants you to ride a bicycle.

 

[JustJack!]

Yes, it will be terrible when you guys reform and start poluting less. Goodness, maybe it will be so bad that our ancient forests may yet survive. Or worse, what if we actually miss out on some global warming.

When our economy tanks because we can't afford to go to work, that's when it's going to get real bad for the enviroment.

Nay, raise them high before we have to face more dire consequences when we run out, or environmental consequences get even worse than they are.

Peak oil isn't coming for a long time.

I am sick of the USA polluting like hell (more or less literally) and acting like they have a right ro ignore the rest of the world and the consequences of their actions.

Yea, cuz it's all our fault.

Sure, we pollute. But at least we try and do something about it. Why don't you ***** about China or India, or all the other world's polluters?

It is HIGH time the USA also got a bit responsible. Your gas prices are ridiculously low, and you complain more than we do about it. You're like a junkie. It's time you got through de-tox.

5$ a gas might work if you live in a tiny as little nation, but when you have to drive 45 minutes, an hour, hour and a half to work, it's a little different.

I echo; Raise them high. Real high.

Well, when we invade some rich oil country just to get some oil, I'll remember you said that.

 

[TheReasoner]

When our economy tanks because we can't afford to go to work, that's when it's going to get real bad for the enviroment.

You know, that will not happen because your system will either adapt to the new demands, or fall regardless of what the gas prices are today. It is bad for the environment now, and will get a lot worse if you guys do not try to change.

Peak oil isn't coming for a long time.

You sound like the grasshopper in the well known folk tale. Winter isn´t coming for a long time yet.

Yea, cuz it's all our fault.

Sure, we pollute. But at least we try and do something about it. Why don't you ***** about China or India, or all the other world's polluters?

I would, but they actually try to follow the Kyoto agreement. You refuse to do so. And your nation denies the scientific evidence regarding global warming, I am yet to see they do it. If you are really trying to adapt and change, show me how?
And besides, why complain so much about high gas prices? Your gas is ridiculously cheap.

5$ a gas might work if you live in a tiny as little nation, but when you have to drive 45 minutes, an hour, hour and a half to work, it's a little different.

lol
You do NOT know my nation!
We have the same amount of inhabitants as the Dallas Metroplex roughly. 4,5 million. These 4.5 million are spread very thin, over a country almost 18 000 kms long. That´s over 11 000 miles. The nation is long, stretches over what would ordinarily be three timezones, and would reach to the southern tip of Italy if tipped over. We have very scarce population in other words, and despite this we manage to uphold great public / collective means of transportation throughout most - indeed almost all of our nation. I used to travel 5 hours every day to get to and fro work. That´s 2 and a half hours each way, by train which is faster than car. There are many many more who travel that far. Quit whining about 45 minutes, quit claiming that you are depending on cars to get to and fro work, you would not be if you implemented buses, trains, subways and/or trams.

Well, when we invade some rich oil country just to get some oil, I'll remember you said that.

lol, well. We give you our oil freely, Iraq was potentially going to boycott you. Furthermore, we are a democracy, we have NATO and Europe backing us, and we can put up an extreme fight. Norway is very hard to invade. Very easy to defend. The USA has no reason to invade us, and will not do so as long as we give you our oil, and are a valuable ally, which we are, considering our wealth...

 

[Suomipoika]

Who needs a car, anyway?