HEY EVERYONE!!! You don't know that!!!

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Herev.
I just wonder something.
Did anything that is in the bible actually have to happen the way its recorded?

Nope. I bet none of it did. Details always get altered as oral traditions are passed down.

How do you know any of it is true?

Sudden jump there from "historically accurate" to "true". I refer you to my post here: http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=10689573&postcount=4

maybe the whole thing is fable and allegory.

Or oral traditions that record events in a variety of ways, with a variable level of historical accuracy. What does it matter? The gospel writers can't agree what the witnesses to the Resurrection found in the tomb. Obviously that Jesus wasn't there was more important than who or what was.

 

[herev]

Herev.
I just wonder something.
Did anything that is in the bible actually have to happen the way its recorded?

How do you know any of it is true?
maybe the whole thing is fable and allegory.

Well, let's look at it in regards to the OP--the point of this thread
I Believe that much of the Bible is intended to be read as history (in terms of the manner in which historians actually worked in their day), but it is my BELIEF--I recognize that there is no way to prove it, so I accept that sure, I may be wrong.
But, as this is the same ole stuff you guys bring up every single day here...Believe it or not, it is not simply whim that causes us to interpret Genesis differently than you. We actually do understand the way in which form criticism plays into the subject.
as to how do I know any of it is true? YOu seem to imply that I think the creation stories in Genesis are not true? What gave you that idea?

 

[lovemysoldier]

I was kind of turned off by this thread. I think it is pretty harsh to condemn and require EVERYONE to apologize for their opinions. If something goes against the grain and doesn't ring true to you that is fine. Opinions are opinions. What a boring world this would be if everyone had the same convictions. We are all part of the church body and have different perspectives on things. I think that the eye can learn a lot from the ear and that is the purpose of forum debates.

I feel I don't owe anyone ANYTHING.

I think everyone in this forum owe's everyone else a "I don't know if my position on our origins is correct. I am willing to acknowledge I could be mistaken."

So, I go first!

I don't know if my position on our origins is correct. I am willing to acknowledge I could be mistaken.

 

[versastyle]

I feel I don't owe anyone ANYTHING.

Well good for you!

 

[1denomination]

Well good for you!

haha I was thinking the same thing. Talk about spiritual pride!

 

[lovemysoldier]

I thought that it was pretty bold and judgemental to demand that everyone owes you anything.

 

[YahwehLove]

Well, let's look at it in regards to the OP--the point of this thread
I Believe that much of the Bible is intended to be read as history (in terms of the manner in which historians actually worked in their day), but it is my BELIEF--I recognize that there is no way to prove it, so I accept that sure, I may be wrong.

interesting.

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
(Heb 11:6)

But, as this is the same ole stuff you guys bring up every single day here...Believe it or not, it is not simply whim that causes us to interpret Genesis differently than you. We actually do understand the way in which form criticism plays into the subject.
as to how do I know any of it is true? YOu seem to imply that I think the creation stories in Genesis are not true? What gave you that idea?

I understadn you believe them and that they are allegory.
Please dont feel like I mean you arent a brother. Its not that at all.

 

[versastyle]

I thought that it was pretty bold and judgemental to demand that everyone owes you anything.

Scripturally we all owe each other.

 

[YahwehLove]

Scripturally we all owe each other.

AMEN.

We are all one body, for sure.
even with our differnces in understanding, maturity and speaking for myself, lack of debating skills

 

[lovemysoldier]

Scripturally we all owe each other.

Scripturally we are called to love each other as Christ loved us. I think it is pretty harsh to condemn and require EVERYONE to apologize for their opinions. I don't see any love in that.

 

[YahwehLove]

Scripturally we are called to love each other as Christ loved us. I think it is pretty harsh to condemn and require EVERYONE to apologize for their opinions. I don't see any love in that.

What I dont understand is this whole debate forum thing.

I assume when I come here that people are going disagee with me.
Christians and Non alike.
Im not getting offended unless someone outright implies that Im stupid just becuase Im a YEC or something.

But it seems like some are getting all upset because points are being made that may offend them.

Im not about to reject YEC to conform.

and either this is a forum where everyone can express opinion and try to convince others of that opinion or it is not.

I think we need to start ignoring the smileys and reading what is said instead of seeing a couple goofball laughy smileys and immediately taking offence when nothing offfensive has been said.

I dont condemn anyone
its not my job too.

 

[Vance]

No, we are not talking about changing a belief, conforming to someone else's opinion, or even apologizing for a belief. Where you guys get these ideas is beyond me.

The point of the thread was to recognize that none of us can claim omniscience on this issue. Only an incredibly prideful and hubristic person would claim that they have Biblical interpretation down 100% and is the ultimate authority on these issues. To refuse to say you could be wrong is to say that you must be right, which is to rise to this level of pride and hubris.

While not all YEC's suffer from this, it is interesting that the only ones that do ARE YEC's.

 

[YahwehLove]

No, we are not talking about changing a belief, conforming to someone else's opinion, or even apologizing for a belief. Where you guys get these ideas is beyond me.

The point of the thread was to recognize that none of us can claim omniscience on this issue. Only an incredibly prideful and hubristic person would claim that they have Biblical interpretation down 100% and is the ultimate authority on these issues. To refuse to say you could be wrong is to say that you must be right, which is to rise to this level of pride and hubris.

While not all YEC's suffer from this, it is interesting that the only ones that do ARE YEC's.

well Id think its only YECers because all the rest have already decided to conform to everchanging understanding that science offers.

The YECer is working in reverse, trying to conform the evidence to fit the scripture. Of course we're more dogmatic.

 

[lovemysoldier]

What I dont understand is this whole debate forum thing.

I assume when I come here that people are going disagee with me.
Christians and Non alike.
Im not getting offended unless someone outright implies that Im stupid just becuase Im a YEC or something.

But it seems like some are getting all upset because points are being made that may offend them.

Im not about to reject YEC to conform.

and either this is a forum where everyone can express opinion and try to convince others of that opinion or it is not.

I think we need to start ignoring the smileys and reading what is said instead of seeing a couple goofball laughy smileys and immediately taking offence when nothing offfensive has been said.

I dont condemn anyone
its not my job too.

Good post. Thanks for your concern and positive attitude. I am not upset. I am just the kind of person that is compelled to call out what I feel is wrong and I felt that this thread's request was wrong. The purpose of these forums are to learn from each other's views and perspectives, not to satisfy judgements or absurd requests.

Kudos to you and may God bless you!

 

[Vance]

well Id think its only YECers because all the rest have already decided to conform to everchanging understanding that science offers.

The YECer is working in reverse, trying to conform the evidence to fit the scripture. Of course we're more dogmatic.

So, you think it is absolutely certain that your particular fallible, human reading of Scripture will be more correct than a scientist's (even a Christian scientists') human reading of the evidence from God's Creation?

Such that you can not even admit the possibility that your intepretation could be incorrect?

 

[YahwehLove]

Good post. Thanks for your concern and positive attitude. I am not upset. I am just the kind of person that is compelled to call out what I feel is wrong and I felt that this thread's request was wrong. The purpose of these forums are to learn from each other's views and perspectives, not to satisfy judgements or absurd requests.

Kudos to you and may God bless you!

Its kind of funny, but when you get 2 sides of an arguement it seems like each side is presenting ''common sense'' and feels that nothing theyre saying should be offending the other.

I feel that Old earthers come off just as arrogant and proud as they surely feel I do.
but unless someone starts calling me stupid, then I see little reason for feeling offended.
This is a debate forum.
If its not a personal attack, then just go with it.

 

[YahwehLove]

So, you think it is absolutely certain that your particular fallible, human reading of Scripture will be more correct than a scientist's (even a Christian scientists') human reading of the evidence from God's Creation?

Such that you can not even admit the possibility that your intepretation could be incorrect?

How about this.
PROVE common decent for me

cant be done, can it?
all we have in someones interpretation of evidence.
They want me to re-interpret my bible for them, yet they wont even make the call that common decent is absolutely the way it happened.

Why would I give up YEC for men who cannot be 110% convinced of their theory and then be able to prove it to me as well?

If Genesis as a whole was written like a prophetical (dreams, visions, parables, etc) book, then Id drop YEC in a heart beat.
But its not.
It names names and shows specifics entirely not needed (Gen 1:4-5. the reader didnt need to know HOW a day worked to understand).

It is not written as allegory, but is very specific in both the english and the Hebrew.

 

[lovemysoldier]

No, we are not talking about changing a belief, conforming to someone else's opinion, or even apologizing for a belief. Where you guys get these ideas is beyond me.

The point of the thread was to recognize that none of us can claim omniscience on this issue. Only an incredibly prideful and hubristic person would claim that they have Biblical interpretation down 100% and is the ultimate authority on these issues. To refuse to say you could be wrong is to say that you must be right, which is to rise to this level of pride and hubris.

While not all YEC's suffer from this, it is interesting that the only ones that do ARE YEC's.

Very well said. I get it now. I only wish that the thread was originally portrayed the way that you said it. Communication is more than the intent of the speaker. It is also about how it is perceived.

I misinterpreted the thread because the thread began aggressively with a demand that everyone must do something and ended without further info.

Now that the thread was clearly explained I would like to respond to it.

God is perfect. I am not. I am a work in progress and I thank God for His love and grace.

 

[versastyle]

Scripturally we are called to love each other as Christ loved us. I think it is pretty harsh to condemn and require EVERYONE to apologize for their opinions. I don't see any love in that.

Who said anything about apologizing? It was merely a request that everyone agree that we are human and make mistakes. Is that difficult?

 

[versastyle]

LMS, I appreciate that. Sorry for the misunderstanding.