Hey, Atheists...

[Ophiolite]

-
​

I was just asking about The Old Testament as it seems like you just referenced the words of Jesus

Yes, that's because it is many of the words of Jesus that I have found very positive and inspiring, but - unlike you - I believe them to be the words of a man, not a God. For me, this does not diminish their value in any way, if anything it enhances them.

 

[Bradskii]

3. And remarkably, for the first time in more than a decade, I find myself agreeing with @d taylor:

Except that he restricted the influences as coming from religion. And specifically Christianity. I would have agreed with him as well if he'd have said Buddhism or philosophy or some other reflection on morality.

 

[Bradskii]

That internal moral compass, do you think it is the result of inherited survival strategies? Do empathy and solidarity have personal survival value?

I would have thought that it was obviously the case. Solidarity is a given. And as far as empathy, it is a huge advantage being able to consider what someone else is thinking so you'll have a good idea what they are likely to do.

 

[Bradskii]

-

​

Many atheist are atheist because they do not like the way God works or does life.

Having no personal experience of your God I can only go by what you tell me. In which case, no - I don't like it at all.

 

[Ophiolite]

Except that he restricted the influences as coming from religion. And specifically Christianity. I would have agreed with him as well if he'd have said Buddhism or philosophy or some other reflection on morality.

Your point is well made, but I was so astounded that the Venn diagrams of the opinions of @d taylor and myself overlapped at all, I thought it worthy of mention.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Your point is well made, but I was so astounded that the Venn diagrams of the opinions of @d taylor and myself overlapped at all, I thought it worthy of mention.

Why wouldn't it be expected for there to be any overlap?

 

[NxNW]

-

​

Many atheist are atheist because they do not like the way God works or does life.

This is false.

So they pronounce God as nonexistent.

This is also false.

If God would do the way they think things should be done, then they would again believe in God.

So is this.

A lack of belief in the supernatural has nothing to do with liking, or not liking, the way things are.

 

[Ophiolite]

Why wouldn't it be expected for there to be any overlap?

Because in the decades (I think it is now decades, rather than years) I have been reading posts by @d taylor I have never found any with which I was in agreement. When one experiences such consistency of irreconcilable differences it is genuinely surprising to encounter a tiny bit of common ground.

 

[FireDragon76]

Atheists are generally modernists, and in that tradition self-preservation and social compact is the basis of morality. Deviations from this are ephemeral, and are usually based on the vestiges of Christian culture.

Kant, Plato, and even Aristotle tend to be too "transcendent" for modern atheistic tastes. Hobbes is really their cornerstone. The only rigorous case for naturalistic ethics in recent history comes from R. M. Hare, but that line was largely not taken up. Rawls is culturally important, but he really collapses back into Hobbes.

Edit: See, for example, Shelly Kagan's contractarianism (9:40).

Hobbes wasn't an atheist, though. He was more of an idiosyncratic Protestant making an argument for the English Protestant establishment.

Hobbes had a pretty dark view, if you actually read what he had to say. He prefigures the kind of strongman politics we see today in places like the US and Hungary.