Hesychasm

[Francis Earl]

This doesn't even touch on the fact the Adam and Eve, Noah, and other stories mirror what is in Sumerian and Akkadian religion...

The more you look, the more you understand the relationships. Further, when we look at the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi scripts we can even work out how the Christian religion has been shaped...

Exactly because there is an experiential reality I find all of this beautiful, but if you need the book to really be from God you have problems.

It can reveal God to us and in this it is true, but it is not from God at all.

This is why you'll see my say John 17:20-26 is my proof of Jesus... this oneness is the reality, everything else is a method to get there. This is true of every religion on the planet, and at their best they all successfully accomplish this.

At their worst, they all cause us to hate each other.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Again, I have studied each for a long time, dedicated my life to this and gone through many experiences based on these techniques... at this point I cannot tell the difference except on things that don't matter.

this post alone shows you don't know much about hesychasm.

 

[Francis Earl]

this post alone shows you don't know much about hesychasm.

You have said you only know it theoretically...

You also show a complete lack of understanding of other traditions...

Why do you think you can speak on this at all?

 

[Lukaris]

As regards to other belief systems, it is probably best to consider an approach like that of our ( so often Orthodox) friend C.S. Lewis in his: Abolition of The Abolition of Man - Wikipedia which lined up with much of what St. Paul preaches in Romans 2.

I think it is best to avoid sampling this or that but realize God did put a moral code for us to live by. No one is automatically good or bad, what I think is so pertinent re this book by Lewis is that he was assessing the beginning of the loss of instinctive (however flawed), common morality. C.S. Lewis, as most know, has probably been in paradise since 1963. The moral code has only become further muddled as time goes on.

 

[Francis Earl]

Indeed, it is quite normal for monks of the Christian tradition to go to Zen monasteries exactly because they have specialized in this practice and do not blaspheme any Christian value... you won't find statues, you won't find art, nothing... just a mat on the floor for comfort and a blank wall to stare at.

Here, Hesychasm is called Dhyan... simply being still and silent, nothing else.

 

[ArmyMatt]

You have said you only know it theoretically...

You also show a complete lack of understanding of other traditions...

Why do you think you can speak on this at all?

I never said you can only know it theoretically.

I never said what I know or don't know about other traditions.

I know enough to know that you don't know about hesychasm.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Indeed, it is quite normal for monks of the Christian tradition to go to Zen monasteries exactly because they have specialized in this practice and do not blaspheme any Christian value... you won't find statues, you won't find art, nothing... just a mat on the floor for comfort and a blank wall to stare at.

Here, Hesychasm is called Dhyan... simply being still and silent, nothing else.

not our tradition.

 

[Francis Earl]

As regards to other belief systems, it is probably best to consider an approach like that of our ( so often Orthodox) friend C.S. Lewis in his: Abolition of The Abolition of Man - Wikipedia which lined up with much of what St. Paul preaches in Romans 2.

I think it is best to avoid sampling this or that but realize God did put a moral code for us to live by. No one is automatically good or bad, what I think is so pertinent re this book by Lewis is that he was assessing the beginning of the loss of instinctive (however flawed), common morality. C.S. Lewis, as most know, has probably been in paradise since 1963. The moral code has only become further muddled as time goes on.

I'm not convinced the NT does give us a moral code... I think it gives only the outcome of living from love, from the spirit... it's fundamentally different.

Morality is a list of good and bad things you abide by... virtue is this movement from a deeper level, knowing not to harm others, knowing to be kind and respectful, etc... not as a way to buy your way into heaven because then it isn't really goodness at all, it is selfish because you get something out of it... I think this is an important difference between the OT and NT.

 

[ArmyMatt]

You are wrong, although it is more widespread for Catholics.

please, show this number.

 

[Francis Earl]

please, show this number.

I cannot give a number, but this might be a good place for you to start looking into the relationship: https://www.scu.edu/media/ignatian-center/santa-clara-lecture/Kennedy.pdf

 

[bèlla]

You are wrong, although it is more widespread for Catholics.

Are you Orthodox or an eclectic Christian? You sound similar to the pagans I knew who blended multiple traditions to suit their fancy. Including ‘Christian’ witchcraft.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

 

[ArmyMatt]

I cannot give a number, but this might be a good place for you to start looking into the relationship: https://www.scu.edu/media/ignatian-center/santa-clara-lecture/Kennedy.pdf

so, you have an assertion without evidence and a paper written by a Jesuit...

with one quote by an Orthodox Father that he doesn't even get right.

that's a poor place to start.

 

[Francis Earl]

Are you Orthodox or an eclectic Christian? You sound similar to the pagans I knew who blended multiple traditions to suit their fancy. Including ‘Christian’ witchcraft.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

I am a mystic...

I like Orthodoxy because it spells out the method that has worked for me.

The thing with a mystic is that all scriptures start to look sorta silly when you realize the real thing... we can see in all that this is what they're trying to say, but all struggle to express it in words.

I will say, however, that this is expressly conveyed in other traditions, but the Bible appears to convey it too in the story of the Tower of Babel... here, we see that we are divided by language and culture although it is a rare instance where God seems to want to keep us down.

In Shaivism, this same process is described simply by saying Shiva sent 7 students to different parts of the world and they got confused because of languages. Further, each student has been taught by their particular make up and have given this to their students as the only way... yet the goal is then to bring them back together to understand the totality ourselves... quite the opposite of the Tower story.

There is a popular notion in many traditions that these are all the same religion in different tongues, this was the basis of interpretatio graeca, which allowed the Hellenistic cultures through which Christianity was expressed to incorporate all religions into its understanding. This culminates in the Perennial Philosophy theories, but it is certain this is far from new phenomena.

The Sufi's too, did this, they are actually the ones who preserved the Greek texts when the Christians destroyed them, which is why a lot of our translations are from Arab sources. They also incorporated important Vedanta and Yoga texts into their understandings as part of the Golden Age, and their intellectual advancement was significantly less when they returned to sola scriptura. Indeed, the upper classes went simply to a purely neoplatonist philosophy for a time, which caused the masses to rebel and end the Golden Age.

The Renaissance did similar, of course, and so did the age of enlightenment... man always advances when he is open and gets stuck when he closes up. Of course, the Christians brought in the Arab translations just before the Muslims destroyed them...

 

[Justin-H.S.]

It's not wrong to say that aspects of Truth can be found in other traditions, including eastern ones, because He is everywhere and fills all things, but only Orthodoxy has the fullness of Truth. And it's against the rules to persist in preaching against the Orthodox faith in TAW. You can try your preaching in St. Justin Martyr's debate subforum located within TAW.

 

[bèlla]

I am a mystic...

I like Orthodoxy because it spells out the method that has worked for me.

So you aren’t a member of the Orthodox Church. But you feel qualified to instruct them about their tradition? Have you considered the possibility you’re wrong?

Yours in His Service,

~bella

 

[Justin-H.S.]

so, you have an assertion without evidence and a paper written by a Jesuit...

with one quote by an Orthodox Father that he doesn't even get right.

that's a poor place to start.

Well, imagine my shock.

 

[Francis Earl]

It's not wrong to say that aspects of Truth can be found in other traditions, including eastern ones, because He is everywhere and fills all things, but only Orthodoxy has the fullness of Truth. And it's against the rules to persist in preaching against the Orthodox faith in TAW. You can try your preaching in St. Justin Martyr's debate subforum located within TAW.

I am not preaching against... if anything, it strengthens it to know all teach the same.

 

[Francis Earl]

So you aren’t a member of the Orthodox Church. But you feel qualified to instruct them about their tradition? Have you considered the possibility you’re wrong?

Yours in His Service,

~bella

Certainly, but this was rejected because I reviewed enough information from the people who defined the process to know it's the same.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I am not preaching against... if anything, it strengthens it to know all teach the same.

Buddhists, Hindus, Jews and Muslims recite the Nicene Creed at church every Sunday?

 

[Francis Earl]

Again, only the language actually differs...