Hesychasm

[Francis Earl]

Buddhists, Hindus, Jews and Muslims recite the Nicene Creed at church every Sunday?

Certainly not, but this is also not part of the hesychast practice.

 

[Francis Earl]

Indeed, Church means community, coming together around Christ... while the hesychasts life is often entirely solitary... so they are quite opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Again, only the language actually differs...

really? what's the goal of hesychasm?

 

[Francis Earl]

A community obviously needs commonality to connect the members...

The hesychast is only interested in connection to God.

 

[Francis Earl]

really? what's the goal of hesychasm?

Union with God.

Theosis

 

[Francis Earl]

The same is the goal of Advaita Vedanta directly... where it is declared the atman (psyche, son) IS brahman (monad, father)

It is said in Sufism through fana and baqaa...
In Buddhism it is anatta.
In Taoism it is the tao...
In Sikhi is gurmat.
etc

 

[Francis Earl]

Always, there is this understanding of dropping what makes us separate and realizing the whole... and ultimately living life from here.

Jesus expresses that this is so for him in John 14:10

 

[Francis Earl]

I honestly believe it is much more helpful to get as wide an array of expressions of this as possible because otherwise you get stuck on the expression and never realize what is being expressed... and the goal is not merely to be knowledgeable... it is to make this a reality in your life.

Nothing else is salvation, nothing else is really true.

1 Corinthians 13 expresses this succinctly... all knowledge passes away, all gifts pass away, but love does not... and God is love 1 John 4:8

This divine love is what remains when you cease.

This ceasing of ego is hesychasm, ego is a function of mind so silencing it limits its influence.

 

[Francis Earl]

God is already there, it is what actually lives... but we veil it in worldly distractions.

Yes, including trying to be popular at our favorite Church.

 

[Francis Earl]

Of course, we should not pick up worship of idols or other things called wrong...

That isn't what you should take from other traditions at all... but the experience of the saints can be quite valuable if you don't get confused...

If it does become overwhelming this will be harmful.

Just understand the point is your own transformation, not what any text says.

This is something else I love about Orthodoxy, it admits every writer is fallible... and it must because the Gospels don't match, yet we also have to understand these people are expressing their societal influences along with what they've been shown by the Spirit...

Your own understanding will differ because the influences aren't the same.

What matters is that you walk by the Spirit, that you move from love in all activity... this is what religion attempts to cause in all, but few get to here... it is no wonder religion is losing in modern society.

You will gradually be able to tell what comes from the Spirit and what remains from the ego... this is probably a better time to explore other expressions.

 

[Lukaris]

I'm not convinced the NT does give us a moral code... I think it gives only the outcome of living from love, from the spirit... it's fundamentally different.

Morality is a list of good and bad things you abide by... virtue is this movement from a deeper level, knowing not to harm others, knowing to be kind and respectful, etc... not as a way to buy your way into heaven because then it isn't really goodness at all, it is selfish because you get something out of it... I think this is an important difference between the OT and NT.

I agree with your overall assessment but I know I myself still need such a moral code while I know of something greater. The Lord said that he fulfilled the law & prophets ( Matthew 5:17) & St. Paul says love fulfills the law ( Romans 13:8-10). This entails keeping the Lord’s commandments which I know I need to do unto death.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Union with God.

Theosis

so how are the differences minor when the other religions confess a different god or none at all?

and, how does one achieve theosis?

 

[Francis Earl]

I agree with your overall assessment but I know I myself still need such a moral code while I know of something greater. The Lord said that he fulfilled the law & prophets ( Matthew 5:17) & St. Paul says love fulfills the law ( Romans 13:8-10). This entails keeping the Lord’s commandments which I know I need to do unto death.

Galatians 5:22-23 talks about this...

I really love Galatians as a whole... but I think just prior it talks about the marks of the flesh in opposition to this... he is making it clear that just because the law no longer applies it doesn't mean we can do bad things... but, he says, if we have the Spirit there is no law (aka commandments)

It is a maturing of religion in my eyes... as children we have a bed time, we have all sorts of restrictions, but as adults these go away, we are trusted...

This, for me, is ultimately what Christ represents and why I choose Christianity over other traditions.

 

[Francis Earl]

so how are the differences minor when the other religions confess a different god or none at all?

What is God?

God is oneness...

So, while other religions call it differently, they are actually talking about the same reality.

Even Buddhism, which seems atheistic, has its Dharmakaya and notion of advaya... so it is wrong to say it rejects divinity.

 

[Francis Earl]

how does one achieve theosis?

As for achieving, I have been suggesting it in my rambles after your question...

Essentially, it is about removing what makes us separate... the ego... because God is already the foundation of life.

 

[Francis Earl]

These differences all become very superficial when you actually delve into the traditions...

For instance, Allah in Islam isn't a name... it means "the divine", and Jesus - if he spoke Aramaic - would have said "alaha" for the same as "el" in Hebrew... these aren't names...

Islam has 99 names for Allah, not one is "Allah".

Just as the Canaanites had many figures they called "El" but El is not a pagan God... it just means God.

In Greek, it is Theos... and Zeus was called this, Apollo was called this... and Yahweh was called this, Jesus was called this...

 

[Francis Earl]

So, again, it really is just the language thing... not a disagreement about reality.

 

[Francis Earl]

The Quran makes basic errors... for instance they obviously asked Jews about Mary because they make the mother of Jesus the brother of Aaron... we can dispute things like this...

Within the mystics of each tradition, though, the goal is the same... just different expressions about it.

The arguments occur only in the lay believers... it is a function of superficial understanding.

Indeed, many Sufi's were killed because they said "and Jesus is his messenger" because Muhammad got things wrong and Jesus better represented their ideal... Muslims have a tendency to obey Deuteronomy 13

Of course, Sufi's also had a huge influence on the Protestant movement, and are a huge reason their Churches are so bare and objectively ugly...

Yet more evidence of a constant interaction simple observation ignores.

 

[prodromos]

If you want to argue against Orthodox Christianity, take it to the St Justin Martyr sub forum.

 

[Francis Earl]

I might still go to that subforum to support... we'll see.