Here's the pattern....

[HisWordisTruth7]

I do think that there are true christians in the Roman Catholic Church.

Yes you will find true believers in every assembly Christ is lifted up, but there is weeds mixed in with us for now>>

You have any weeds in your Catholic assemblies? Question is, does the "one true church" ie the bride of Christ contain any weeds?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

You think?? You're not sure? Nor am I. This text doesn't refer to churches, but individuals. And this very text pleads against the Catholic position of ongoing developments in doctrine:

"Whosoever goes forward and abides not in the doctrine of the Christ has not God."

And that's exactly what has happened: people going "forward", that is adding to, developing new stuff.

Trust me: the 27 books are wholly sufficient....

And I thought you said that whenever 2 or more are there in Jesus name there is the church?

If that is your understanding then all these deceivers that claim to be here in the name of Jesus have a church too. So be careful of that church you subscribe to.

[bible]2 john 1:7-13[/bible]

Thanks to the Catholic Church for choosing the 27 books of the New Testament and protecting them for centuries.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Jack in theory then should you (your church) accept all of Ireneaus teachings then? because you/they sure miss on a butt load of them.

We can learn from his writings and sue them to better understand what the Apsotles taught.

Yes, in that regard we can.

 

[HisWordisTruth7]

I would just thank the Lord for directing the believers at the time.. In the one, holy, catholic (not Roman Catholic) body of Christ..

 

[holdon]

And I thought you said that whenever 2 or more are there in Jesus name there is the church?

If that is your understanding then all these deceivers that claim to be here in the name of Jesus have a church too. So be careful of that church you subscribe to.

Absolutely! When Paul said deceivers be even in their midst. Now, how is that for the Roman Church?

Thanks to the Catholic Church for choosing the 27 books of the New Testament and protecting them for centuries.

Thanks to God. And thankfully they didn't include all the other writings.... knowing full well they were by no means the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit...

 

[simonthezealot]

We can learn from his writings and sue them to better understand what the Apsotles taught.

Yes, in that regard we can.

Just how well do you think your church scores on doctrines aligning to Ireneaus writings?
On a scale of 1-10?


Whatever you guess, i'm betting it's to high...

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I do think that there are true christians in the Roman Catholic Church.

Catholic was used to describe the Church for Christians since before 100 AD when the Apostle John was still alive.

Seems to me that only if you are Catholic can one even attempt to call themselves a Chrstian.

As Cyprian wrote:

The Church is the mother of all believers. "No one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother" (St. Cyprian, De unit. 6: PL 4, 519).

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I would just thank the Lord for directing the believers at the time.. In the one, holy, catholic (not Roman Catholic) body of Christ..

Do not forget Apsotolic.



We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

[E.C.]

I would just thank the Lord for directing the believers at the time.. In the one, holy, catholic (not Roman Catholic) body of Christ..

What about "Apostolic"?

 

[E.C.]

Do not forget Apsotolic.



We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

What's that doing there!

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Absolutely! When Paul said deceivers be even in their midst. Now, how is that for the Roman Church?

Thanks to God. And thankfully they didn't include all the other writings.... knowing full well they were by no means the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit...

As I have said and many others for close to 2,000 years.

The Catholic Church is the Church we look to for Truth for it is the teachings of God, undefiled and free from perversion.

 

[simonthezealot]

Catholic was used to describe the Church for Christians since before 100 AD when the Apostle John was still alive.

Seems to me that only if you are Catholic can one even attempt to call themselves a Chrstian.

As Cyprian wrote:

The Church is the mother of all believers. "No one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother" (St. Cyprian, De unit. 6: PL 4, 519).

I see your being remiss in mentioning his views on church government, papal legitimacy and roman primacy. Once you understand that, the above comment takes on a different meaning...I'd gladly share this with you if you wish.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Just how well do you think your church scores on doctrines aligning to Ireneaus writings?
On a scale of 1-10?


Whatever you guess, i'm betting it's to high...

The question should not be how the teachings of the Catholic Church compare to Irenaeus but how Irenaeus compares to the Catholic Church.

As the Church wed to Jesus, the Catholic Church teaches it's doctrines and dogmas with out error. Where the people of the Catholic Church can misunderstand the doctrines and dogmas and teach with some error.

 

[HisWordisTruth7]

What about "Apostolic"?

Opps.. thanks..

 

[JacktheCatholic]

What's that doing there!

LOL

 

[simonthezealot]

The question should not be how the teachings of the Catholic Church compare to Irenaeus but how Irenaeus compares to the Catholic Church.

As the Church wed to Jesus, the Catholic Church teaches it's doctrines and dogmas with out error. Where the people of the Catholic Church can misunderstand the doctrines and dogmas and teach with some error.

Jack you used his view to substantiate doctrine because he was so close in time to the apostles, yet I am telling you much of what he taught is at odds with your church...In the right hand your using to substantiate, in the left your being remissive. Somethings got to give.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I see your being remiss in mentioning his views on church government, papal legitimacy and roman primacy. Once you understand that, the above comment takes on a different meaning...I'd gladly share this with you if you wish.

Let us go to Primacy of Rome then.

 

[HisWordisTruth7]

Could you share a bit more..

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Jack you used his view to substantiate doctrine because he was so close in time to the apostles, yet I am telling you much of what he taught is at odds with your church...In the right hand your using to substantiate, in the left your being remissive. Somethings got to give.

One thing at a time.

Did my quote help to validate what I posted?

Irenaeus who was taught by Polycarp who was taught by the Apsotle John wrote:



Irenaeus


"As I said before, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although she is disseminated throughout the whole world, yet guarded it, as if she occupied but one house. She likewise believes these things just as if she had but one soul and one and the same heart; and harmoniously she proclaims them and teaches them and hands them down, as if she possessed but one mouth. For, while the languages of the world are diverse, nevertheless, the authority of the tradition is one and the same" (Against Heresies 1:10:2 [A.D. 189]).

"That is why it is surely necessary to avoid them [heretics], while cherishing with the utmost diligence the things pertaining to the Church, and to lay hold of the tradition of truth. . . . What if the apostles had not in fact left writings to us? Would it not be necessary to follow the order of tradition, which was handed down to those to whom they entrusted the churches?" (ibid., 3:4:1).

...

"It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors to our own times—men who neither knew nor taught anything like these heretics rave about.

"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles.

"With this church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree—that is, all the faithful in the whole world—and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (ibid., 3:3:1–2).

 

[HisWordisTruth7]

What's that doing there!

Things change according to sources...Some sorces are biased..