Here is a shocker-- Study shows that Abstinence education doesn't work

[bammertheblue]

There is such a thing as generations of people getting on welfare indefinitely.

Source? Because if that's true, that is certainly something that needs to be addressed. But just the fact that you say it is so does not make it so.

Are you suggesting children don't learn by their parents' example or are you suggesting you don't care if they are taught by example to be welfare babymommas and babydaddies?

Well, I certainly have not conducted a scientific study on the subject (as I doubt you have) but I do spend a fair amount of time in areas where the urban poor live, and I have never seen any child "taught by example" to be on welfare. Most persons that I've spoken with (again, by no means statistically significant) would pretty much lie down in traffic if it meant their child would be better off than they are.

These situations go beyond color. You seem to think whites don't go on welfare in the inner cities and minorities don't do so in rural areas.

No, that's not what I was saying at all.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Source? Because if that's true, that is certainly something that needs to be addressed. But just the fact that you say it is so does not make it so.

I looked and I can't find a source to agree or disagree with it. All I have is the experience of working all over town and seeing what health insurance families tend to have in different parts of town.

Well, I certainly have not conducted a scientific study on the subject (as I doubt you have) but I do spend a fair amount of time in areas where the urban poor live, and I have never seen any child "taught by example" to be on welfare. Most persons that I've spoken with (again, by no means statistically significant) would pretty much lie down in traffic if it meant their child would be better off than they are.

I work with the kinds of people you talk about. They say they love their kids and would give the shirt off their back for them. Then they buy a pack of cigs as they pickup their children's asthma medicine, which happens to be covered by welfare.

 

[SallyNow]

I'd rather see orphanages built for the children of parents who can't support their kids and work farms for parents who can't support their children. We know children learn from their parents. Does it make any sense to allow their parents to teach them by example how to not support themselves. Drive through an inner city and tell me you like what your welfare dollars are paying for.

How dare ANYONE suggest taking children away from their parents because their parents are having a rough time financially. There are enough children being actually abused who can't find homes!

Why not change the welfare system into an education system? That's right: help mothers get an education so they can go and get good jobs. The fathers often abandon the kids... who's left? That's right, actually give parents an education! What a shocker! The path to educated kids is educated parents, not orphanages!

So, why not help whoever gets custody of the child an education? Help them get out of the welfare/low-wage job/welfare cycle.

Oh, and I am for universal health care. It is a true "treat others as you would want to be treated" program. That way, every child, every elderly person, and every person who slipped through the cracks, lost their job, or had a serious illness is covered - and those who can afford it can pay extra for insurance to cover 'perks' such as private rooms, plastic surgery, etc.

The only way to education a person is to give an overview of the facts to begin with. Abstinence-only classes do not do that. They are propaganda, not education.
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[Yusuf Evans]

People in the U.S. are dumb, really dumb. Abstinence-only education benefits noone, but panders to the fundmentalist Christian crowd in order to get their votes and their money.

 

[KomissarSteve]

I looked and I can't find a source to agree or disagree with it. All I have is the experience of working all over town and seeing what health insurance families tend to have in different parts of town.

The Right loves to bring up the people who exploit the welfare system, and these individuals do exist, but there are far, far, far less of them than the Right would ever admit.

 

[Autumnleaf]

The Right loves to bring up the people who exploit the welfare system, and these individuals do exist, but there are far, far, far less of them than the Right would ever admit.

If that were so, I suspect the 'left' who run the welfare system would come up with numbers to support such a claim. As it is, I think we all know there are parts of town where families and extended families of people on welfare tend to live.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

If that were so, I suspect the 'left' who run the welfare system would come up with numbers to support such a claim. As it is, I think we all know there are parts of town where families and extended families of people on welfare tend to live.

Sure... but are they a MAJORITY of the people recieving welfare benefits?

Lets put this all back in the context of the OP... you came in here saying that you want to cancel ALL wellfare (presumeably this makes no distinction between "genuine need" cases and the "wellfare mothers" you so hate)... which is, I guess, a legitimate POV in its way... but you ALSO want to ban contraception... So... aren't you really setting people up to fail?

Axiom: No matter wht you do, people will have sex, and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

However, IF you deny them contraception, you are going to have people who need assistance to live... and if you kill welfare programs, aren't you basically condemning people to starvation and homelessness, along with their children?

I mean, i can sort of see EITHER cut welfare OR ban contraceptives, but BOTH? Whats with THAT?!

 

[Autumnleaf]

How dare ANYONE suggest taking children away from their parents because their parents are having a rough time financially. There are enough children being actually abused who can't find homes!

How dare anyone suggest living in poverty is better for a child than not living in poverty. Have you even considered the possibility that abused children tend to come from such environments more often than not?

Why not change the welfare system into an education system? That's right: help mothers get an education so they can go and get good jobs. The fathers often abandon the kids... who's left? That's right, actually give parents an education! What a shocker! The path to educated kids is educated parents, not orphanages!

Do you have any evidence to show that education changes peoples behavior? Everybody knows its better for two parents to raise a child and getting a college education is a good idea. What do you plan on teaching these parents that you think they will believe, and more importantly, actually apply?

Oh, and I am for universal health care. It is a true "treat others as you would want to be treated" program. That way, every child, every elderly person, and every person who slipped through the cracks, lost their job, or had a serious illness is covered - and those who can afford it can pay extra for insurance to cover 'perks' such as private rooms, plastic surgery, etc.

So you're basically for rationing healthcare? If you're one of the first people to need heart bypass surgery in the fiscal year you get it, but if you need one after the funding runs out you can cough up the dough yourself or wait until next years funding is available? Universal healthcare is like being forced to shop at a store that only gets stocked once a year on the same day. Its not a panacea.

The only way to education a person is to give an overview of the facts to begin with. Abstinence-only classes do not do that. They are propaganda, not education.
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Abstinence-only classes teach the only proven method to avoid pregnancy and VD. Its the most responsible way to teach the subject. Teaching about methods of birth control is a form of planning to fail for most people. All you have to do to check this out is look at the incidence of cervical cancer among women who had premarital sex versus those who did not. If you're really into education you can look up the incidence of increased breast cancer risk among women who had abortions, put that in the curriculum.

 

[Verv]

I think that it is sometimes just a matter of the same old fact that... Education doesn't work.

"Don't drink..." But we're curious!

"Don't do drugs..." But we're curious!

"Don't have sex..." "But we're curious!

"Don't eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil..." But we're curious!

Every generation has the same problems. It's just that when the girl got pregnant the guy used to have to stick around and it didn't make much difference anyway, because he was going to be working the farm or going to the factory just the same.

Now the impact is greater that we live in a society of fleating responsibility and increasing technology.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

How dare anyone suggest living in poverty is better for a child than not living in poverty. Have you even considered the possibility that abused children tend to come from such environments more often than not?

WRONG! Children from ANY socio-economic background are JUST as likely to be neglected and abused as any other child. The idea that poor people are more likely to abuse a child is blatant stereotypical nonsense. Don't take my word for it, check the stats yourelf.

Everybody knows its better for two parents to raise a child

Says who?

If you're one of the first people to need heart bypass surgery in the fiscal year you get it, but if you need one after the funding runs out you can cough up the dough yourself or wait until next years funding is available? Universal healthcare is like being forced to shop at a store that only gets stocked once a year on the same day. Its not a panacea.

Its better to be on the waiting list, rather than completely without a chance to recieve the heart transplant at all, if you haven't the money to pay the hospital bills. If there is ony enough cash for 600 heart transplants a year, shouldn't ANYONE be eligible for one, not just people with money?

Further, whats wrong with the Australian system, where there is a complete coverage public system, but people are encouraged to have private health insurance, which allows them to access "user pays" programs?

Abstinence-only classes teach the only proven method to avoid pregnancy and VD. Its the most responsible way to teach the subject. Teaching about methods of birth control is a form of planning to fail for most people. All you have to do to check this out is look at the incidence of cervical cancer among women who had premarital sex versus those who did not. If you're really into education you can look up the incidence of increased breast cancer risk among women who had abortions, put that in the curriculum.

By this logic, we shouldn't teach people to wear seat belts or instal airbags, as these are just a form of "planning to fail" too

 

[KomissarSteve]

If that were so, I suspect the 'left' who run the welfare system

Hahaha, what?

I sense a conspiracy theory a-brewin!

would come up with numbers to support such a claim. As it is, I think we all know there are parts of town where families and extended families of people on welfare tend to live.

Uh, yeah? They're called the "poor parts of town." I don't quite see what that has to do with anything, though...