Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

[Michie]

I’ve written in CP before that I believe once a Christian is saved through the sacrifice of Christ, they cannot lose their salvation. This doctrine is most often called the perseverance (sometimes labeled “preservation”) of the saints.

On this topic, the Westminster Confession of Faith says: “They whom God hath accepted in His beloved Son effectually called and sanctified by His Spirit can neither totally nor finally fall away from a state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end and be eternally saved.”

There are plenty who disagree with this.

For example, the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent declared: “If anyone says that a man once justified cannot lose grace and therefore that he who falls and sins never was truly justified, let him be accursed.” And at the 1610 Conference of the Remonstrants (what Arminians called themselves then) said, “Persons truly regenerate, by neglecting grace and grieving the Holy Spirit with sin, fall away totally, and at length finally, from grace into eternal reprobation.”

While I think those who believe this, including the ones who laid the foundation of the you-can-lose-your-salvation position, have good intentions and are primarily trying to guard against the issue of “cheap grace,” it overlooks the fact that the Christian faith is built on the pattern of the unconditional Abrahamic covenant outlined in Genesis 12:1–3. Abraham was called, blessed, and then exhibited faith just as we do today.

Continued below.

Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

All our sins past and future evaporated at the cross and can t be resurrected against us ever, and thus we re forever protected from them

www.christianpost.com

 

[fhansen]

I’ve written in CP before that I believe once a Christian is saved through the sacrifice of Christ, they cannot lose their salvation. This doctrine is most often called the perseverance (sometimes labeled “preservation”) of the saints.

On this topic, the Westminster Confession of Faith says: “They whom God hath accepted in His beloved Son effectually called and sanctified by His Spirit can neither totally nor finally fall away from a state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end and be eternally saved.”

There are plenty who disagree with this.

For example, the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent declared: “If anyone says that a man once justified cannot lose grace and therefore that he who falls and sins never was truly justified, let him be accursed.” And at the 1610 Conference of the Remonstrants (what Arminians called themselves then) said, “Persons truly regenerate, by neglecting grace and grieving the Holy Spirit with sin, fall away totally, and at length finally, from grace into eternal reprobation.”

While I think those who believe this, including the ones who laid the foundation of the you-can-lose-your-salvation position, have good intentions and are primarily trying to guard against the issue of “cheap grace,” it overlooks the fact that the Christian faith is built on the pattern of the unconditional Abrahamic covenant outlined in Genesis 12:1–3. Abraham was called, blessed, and then exhibited faith just as we do today.

Continued below.

Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

All our sins past and future evaporated at the cross and can t be resurrected against us ever, and thus we re forever protected from them

www.christianpost.com

I doubt you’ll find in any of the early church teachings: ECFs (with the possible exception of Origen), EO, Catholic, etc anything like the doctrine of perseverance of the saints. It’s quite novel all in all. The early churches understood that man’s will, his cooperation, continues to play its role throughout one’s life in God’s work of salvation.

 

[RandyPNW]

I’ve written in CP before that I believe once a Christian is saved through the sacrifice of Christ, they cannot lose their salvation. This doctrine is most often called the perseverance (sometimes labeled “preservation”) of the saints.

On this topic, the Westminster Confession of Faith says: “They whom God hath accepted in His beloved Son effectually called and sanctified by His Spirit can neither totally nor finally fall away from a state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end and be eternally saved.”

There are plenty who disagree with this.

For example, the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent declared: “If anyone says that a man once justified cannot lose grace and therefore that he who falls and sins never was truly justified, let him be accursed.” And at the 1610 Conference of the Remonstrants (what Arminians called themselves then) said, “Persons truly regenerate, by neglecting grace and grieving the Holy Spirit with sin, fall away totally, and at length finally, from grace into eternal reprobation.”

While I think those who believe this, including the ones who laid the foundation of the you-can-lose-your-salvation position, have good intentions and are primarily trying to guard against the issue of “cheap grace,” it overlooks the fact that the Christian faith is built on the pattern of the unconditional Abrahamic covenant outlined in Genesis 12:1–3. Abraham was called, blessed, and then exhibited faith just as we do today.

Continued below.

Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

All our sins past and future evaporated at the cross and can t be resurrected against us ever, and thus we re forever protected from them

www.christianpost.com

It is a mystery, how God has called X number of Elect, while allowing mankind to produce children not of His original calling. But I've seen it.

I've been able to recognize His Elect, as well as recognize those who are not His Elect. It is truly a tragedy to see those who have equal access to God, and who even sometimes draw upon the Spirit of God, to know that their heart isn't pure before God.

Only those who from the heart commit in love to Christ as their Lord will be saved for all time. Those who commit to an "experience" but who do not wholly put their trust in Christ will not be saved. In fact, Christ "never knew them," because they did not enter into intimate connection with Christ in the inner recesses of their being.

Christ knows who are his. That being said, even the Elect of God can fall far from Christ due to the oppressions and disappointments of this life. They are all recoverable because Christ sees their hearts and the things they have stumbled over.

I will go even farther and say that not all have been reached with the loving Gospel of Christ. They will not be damned for what they don't know, or for the misconceptions they were raised with. They too can become the Elect of God by Christ's predetermination to make them so by his own will and word. My view only....

 

[Clare73]

I doubt you’ll find in any of the early church teachings: ECFs (with the possible exception of Origen), EO, Catholic, etc anything like the doctrine of perseverance of the saints. It’s quite novel all in all. The early churches understood that man’s will, his cooperation, continues to play its role throughout one’s life in God’s work of salvation.

See Jn 5:24, 10:22-30, Ro 8:28-29, Eph 1:13-14, Php 1:6, Heb 12:2, 7:25.

 

[Clare73]

fhansen said: (post #5)

From Jesus' persepctive its not either/or but both/and. We can't truly love our neighbor, wanting them to be saved, while observing their suffering and doing nothing about it. And loving and accepting and healing people is a major means to their own acceptance of the faith anyway.
"Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."

Saving faith is always accompanied by works.

 

[fhansen]

Saving faith is always accompanied by works.

I previously deleted that post because it was meant for another thread. Anyway, once the human will is likewise deleted from any meaningful role whatsoever in man's salvation, many passages of Scripture must be ignored or twisted to fit one's theology.

 

[Clare73]

I previously deleted that post because it was meant for another thread. Anyway, once the human will is likewise deleted from any meaningful role whatsoever in man's salvation,

???

many passages of Scripture must be ignored or twisted to fit one's theology.

It can also be said that once human life is deleted from any meaningful role whatsoever in man's salvation, the same conclusion applies.

Man is a slave to sin (Jn 8:34). Slaves are not free.

The human will is governed by the disposition. . .one chooses what one prefers. . .and man's disposition is governed by his fallen nature, which prefers self over God.
Man's fallen human will is not free to make all moral choices. . .he cannot choose to be sinless.

 

[fhansen]

???

Once human life is deleted from any meaningful role whatsoever in man's salvation, the same conclusion applies.

???

 

[Clare73]

???

Php 2:13.

 

[fhansen]

Php 2:13.

Yes, and He covets human cooperation with that will of His, from Eden until now, while allowing us to deny it. His whole plan down through the centuries has been to patiently steer that will back to Himself. Otherwise there's no need for revelation, for the bible, and for the centuries of human suffering casused by our alienation from Him, if He's only intending to do it all for us anyway at the end of the day. We're here to learn a very crucial lesson: "Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

 

[Clare73]

Yes, and He covets human cooperation with that will of His, from Eden until now, while allowing us to deny it.

Read Php 2:13 again. . .unbelief makes God too small.

His whole plan down through the centuries has been to patiently steer that will back to Himself. Otherwise there's no need for revelation, for the bible, and for the centuries of human suffering casused by our alienation from Him, if He's only intending to do it all for us anyway at the end of the day. We're here to learn a very crucial lesson: "Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

Lotta' human reasoning with no Biblical source. . .

 

[fhansen]

Read Php 2:13 again. . .unbelief makes God too small.

Only if Adam's disobedience makes God small.

 

[fhansen]

Lotta' human reasoning with no Biblical source. . .

Read the bible again...divine reasoning for my position is absolutely replete- within its content and purpose.

 

[Clare73]

Only if Adam's disobedience makes God small.

Adam's disobedience was unbelief, they being the same word (apeitheia).

So we agree. . .disobedience/unbelief make God too small.

 

[Clare73]

Read the bible again...divine reasoning for my position is absolutely replete- within its content and purpose.

Falls somewhat short of a Biblical demonstration. . .without which a Biblical assertion has no merit.

 

[Dan Perez]

Only if Adam's disobedience makes God small.

And here just one of the best verses. FOR OSAS .in eps 1:4. !!

# 1. JUST. as he has CHOSEN // EKLEGOMI. , is in the INDICATIVE MOOD , means you better believe it !!

# 2 US // PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN. is in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in the Plural and Plural , many are chosen

# 3 BEFORE // PRO , is a PREPOSITION

# 4 THE FOUNDATION // KATABOLE , is in the Genitive Case , in. the Singular. , means only one time

# 5 OF THE WORLD. // KOMOS. , is also in the Genitive Case , in the Singular , means only one time

dan p

 

[fhansen]

Adam's disobedience was unbelief, they being the same word (apeitheia).

So we agree. . .disobedience/unbelief make God too small.

Very good! Adam literally failed to believe God and disobedience was bound to follow. And this is why faith is the reversal of that situation, bringing us back home from that state of disobedience: believing in God is to be reconciled with Him and Jesus came for that very purpose, to reveal a God truly worth believing in, hoping in, and, most importantly, loving.

But the point is that God's will isn't necessarily always done-Adam's will was allowed to deny God's will-unless we're to believe that God wanted Adam to disobey after strictly forbidding him to do so. And either way, this is why we're taught to pray, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven", because of the very real possibilty of it not being done. And there's a place, of course, for those who adamantly reject His will.

God is a God who places a very high value on the freedom He granted to certain sentient rational created beings. Because with that freedom, and only with that freedom, can we become the beings He created us to be, beings who love as He does.

 

[BobRyan]

While I think those who believe this, including the ones who laid the foundation of the you-can-lose-your-salvation position, have good intentions and are primarily trying to guard against the issue of “cheap grace,” it overlooks the fact that the Christian faith is built on the pattern of the unconditional Abrahamic covenant outlined in Genesis 12:1–3. Abraham was called, blessed, and then exhibited faith just as we do today.

Continued below.

Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

All our sins past and future evaporated at the cross and can t be resurrected against us ever, and thus we re forever protected from them

www.christianpost.com

Matt 18 ends with "forgiveness revoked" saying "I forgave you all that doubt, you should have forgiven your brother just as I forgave you" then says all the original debt was to be returned to him

Ezek 18 shows several examples of the same forgiveness revoked scenario.

Rom 11 shows forgiveness revoked saying "you stand only by your faith" but then the warning that if you do not persevere in doing good , "you also will be cut off just as the unbelieving Jews were"

Gal 5:4 "you have been cut off from Christ, fallen from Grace"

Heb 6:2-11 speaks of the same reality of losing salvation

 

[fhansen]

We're here to learn a very crucial lesson: "Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

Lotta' human reasoning with no Biblical source. . .

The bible starts out with man disobeying and alienating himself from God. This is when man became "apart" from Him. Anyone who deosn't understand that the rest of the bible constitutes God's patient work to rectify that situation, providing both the means and a beckoning, an appeal, for us to respond, doesn't understand the gospel well.

"We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."
2 Cor 5:20-21

 

[Clare73]

The bible starts out with man disobeying and alienating himself from God. This is when man became "apart" from Him. Anyone who deosn't understand that the rest of the bible constitutes God's patient work to rectify that situation, providing both the means and a beckoning, an appeal, for us to respond, doesn't understand the gospel well.

"We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."
2 Cor 5:20-21

Non-responsive. . .