helping others by getting vaccine

[Mark Quayle]

You don't inoculate against death, that is an inevitability even if you are protected against virtually all diseases, hospitalization and death from that is avoidable with the following of reasonable medical advice, which includes wearing masks in public areas of high traffic during an epidemic of this highly transmittable virus and getting vaccinated

I know you don't inoculate against death. But your wording could be taken that way. My point remains: this Covid panic has gone way beyond good sense. I keep hearing 'the science says'. But I hear science from the other side saying different. The fact that other science doesn't get reported by the media, and the fact that Fauci et al have an obvious agenda that goes beyond good sense is more than I need to doubt their 'science' but even THEY don't follow their science. All they preach is "panic panic panic let the government be your savior" and I've had enough of it.

Seems to me if you think you know better, then you shouldn't really be involved with the modern medical field at all, because clearly you don't need their help, you can take care of yourself. And that childish mentality will bite you in the rear by basic causality when you behave as badly as a a 5 year old who doesn't like being told they have to go to bed at 8. Except the 5 year old can be excused to a degree and learn the problem, but you're an adult, yet aren't acting with the maturity or wisdom of one

Why would you think I disrespect the medical field —because I doubt the noise? Because I hear the bullying of those in the medical field? (Not to mention the bullying and shaming from the politically correct noise of the day...). I don't hear rational debate; I hear emotion driven accusations as to the uncaring hearts of those who don't believe the panic. It has gone ludicrous.

The most rational the debate gets, anymore, is, "The CDC says", or "The WHO says", etc. As though the CDC etc was beyond corruption and agenda... Well, I've had enough.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Science is not 100% certain, you don't appear to understand the methodology or investigation and principles that acknowledge the novel nature of a virus that can evolve as this does. When you don't even have the foundational aspects of knowledge, of course you're going to act like change means there's inconsistency instead of NEW DATA

You seem to suppose that I don't understand enough, because you see me as noisy, I think. Well, yes, I am bit noisy, because that seems to be all anyone will listen to. Shout me down, I'll get noisy somewhere else. I'm not stupid enough nor ignorant enough to know that in my circle of thousands of friends, of whom no one has died of covid, and only 3 to my knowledge got it, and although a 2 year old (no I didn't know her personally —she was related to a close acquaintance) who drowned in a backyard swimming pool, and a 14 year old who was killed in a car accident, both died of covid according to their death certificates, and although the original directives for reporting I read myself, said something to the effect that if the institution involved thought they could have had covid they are to report it as such, and I hear, (and half believe), that for every reported covid death the institution involved was given a significant sum of money, I'm not stupid enough to believe the numbers are accurate. The flu cases in 2019 were in the millions, as I remember, and in 2020 were 1,800 —really??? (And yes, I've heard all the arguments, but they don't account for that wide a difference. And I just did a search: the parameters have changed, they don't compare one year to the next, now, but merge them. Wow.)

Science is not and should not be politicized, you're associating it purely based on someone's partisan connection and not the methodology and reliability of the data and studies in question, showing how thoroughly ignorant you are of science and how it is done to begin with and just spread misinformation by your confirmation bias.

Well it is politicized. Look how the vaccine was dangerous while Trump was in office, but now is necessary. Look how Trump was 'racist' to shut down travel from China, while Pelosi was urging celebration without fear, without masking, in New Orleans, but now no mention of that anywhere. Just the unfounded screams that Trump's slow reaction to the covid is what caused all the deaths.

You conflate trust with absolute faith, I don't have the latter with regards to any of the authorities you cite (most of which aren't scientists, btw, the agencies have experts within them that are doing their best and you treat them like they're just mindless drones), I have provisional belief that things are as they say within reason and that these preventative measures are for the good of everyone even if some can be opportunistic and exploit things that are a product of capitalism in excess where profits are more valuable than people.

Your faith is in the reported numbers and reported science. Sure your beliefs are provisional, I don't doubt that. They ought to be, with all the change-ups of panic.

This is way beyond the pale.

 

[muichimotsu]

I know you don't inoculate against death. But your wording could be taken that way. My point remains: this Covid panic has gone way beyond good sense. I keep hearing 'the science says'. But I hear science from the other side saying different. The fact that other science doesn't get reported by the media, and the fact that Fauci et al have an obvious agenda that goes beyond good sense is more than I need to doubt their 'science' but even THEY don't follow their science. All they preach is "panic panic panic let the government be your savior" and I've had enough of it.

You don't get to dictate someone having an agenda because of your distrust of them, you have to demonstrate this or you're engaging in conspiratorial magical thinking

No one is perfect, expecting that is lunacy.

If you don't like it, then leave. See how that sounds from the other side? If you want to improve things, you don't tear the whole infrastructure down and try to rebuild in the midst of a problem, you plan for how to adjust it. And in your case, maybe take a step back and don't pretend like you're able to handle these problems that are unprecedented, with regards both to a novel coronavirus and so much misinformation stymieing progress

Why would you think I disrespect the medical field —because I doubt the noise? Because I hear the bullying of those in the medical field? (Not to mention the bullying and shaming from the politically correct noise of the day...). I don't hear rational debate; I hear emotion driven accusations as to the uncaring hearts of those who don't believe the panic. It has gone ludicrous.

You selectively read the evidence, that's confirmation bias in a nutshell

You can be vigilant without it being a panic, you're so detached from this, it's as if you don't care that over 600K people and counting have died from this virus and the projections don't look good with how stubborn so many are in refusing sound advice by cherry picking the data to fit their preconception that this is overblown or such when the number of deaths outstrips several flu seasons combined.

The most rational the debate gets, anymore, is, "The CDC says", or "The WHO says", etc. As though the CDC etc was beyond corruption and agenda... Well, I've had enough

No one's saying that, so nice strawmanning. And again, you make all this bluster, but you don't appear to be doing anything besides flailing around like a recalcitrant child who doesn't get what they want

 

[muichimotsu]

You seem to suppose that I don't understand enough, because you see me as noisy, I think. Well, yes, I am bit noisy, because that seems to be all anyone will listen to. Shout me down, I'll get noisy somewhere else. I'm not stupid enough nor ignorant enough to know that in my circle of thousands of friends, of whom no one has died of covid, and only 3 to my knowledge got it, and although a 2 year old (no I didn't know her personally —she was related to a close acquaintance) who drowned in a backyard swimming pool, and a 14 year old who was killed in a car accident, both died of covid according to their death certificates, and although the original directives for reporting I read myself, said something to the effect that if the institution involved thought they could have had covid they are to report it as such, and I hear, (and half believe), that for every reported covid death the institution involved was given a significant sum of money, I'm not stupid enough to believe the numbers are accurate. The flu cases in 2019 were in the millions, as I remember, and in 2020 were 1,800 —really??? (And yes, I've heard all the arguments, but they don't account for that wide a difference. And I just did a search: the parameters have changed, they don't compare one year to the next, now, but merge them. Wow.)

So you cherry pick your anecdotal experience and downplay the deaths others have experienced? Yeah, you're loud and showing how thoroughly lacking in compassion you are as well in dismissing the severity of this because you personally haven't experienced anything so bad.

You realize flu cases are not the same as flu deaths, right? And flu doesn't spread as widely as covid because it's mutated so much that the variables of survival are going to be different, but generally are droplet based, meaning the mask wearing was a MAJOR factor in reducing cases, plus flu shots that would've reduced deaths as well. If you have millions of cases when people arent' taking precautions and then you have a few thousand when they do, that isn't an unreasonable correlation and even causative link of the preventative measures

Maybe they changed it for a good reason, I doubt you're some kind of expert to be able to call them out as doing a bad thing, but make your case before you make accusations

Well it is politicized. Look how the vaccine was dangerous while Trump was in office, but now is necessary. Look how Trump was 'racist' to shut down travel from China, while Pelosi was urging celebration without fear, without masking, in New Orleans, but now no mention of that anywhere. Just the unfounded screams that Trump's slow reaction to the covid is what caused all the deaths.

Bollocks, I never considered it dangerous and I didn't vote Trump or Biden, don't generalize based on the media you supposedly don't really trust (Except when you do apparently)

We didn't know the severity of this, Trump did and DOWNPLAYED it. His irresponsibility and encouraging dismissive attitudes about preventative measures, that it would just go away, that is still a factor people are using because they've bought into his con game even after he lost the election they keep claiming was "stolen" with little to no substantive evidence

Your faith is in the reported numbers and reported science. Sure your beliefs are provisional, I don't doubt that. They ought to be, with all the change-ups of panic.

Not faith, trust, that is provisional, faith is unquestioning in essence and doesn't necessarily change with new evidence.

I've never not taken precautions in public places, as far as I can recall, don't act like you can just accuse me of hypocrisy when you know virtually nothing to suggest I've somehow broken protocol or such rather than trying to be safe because I care about others genuinely and not just for posturing to seem altruistic like you seem to.

But in reality, the primary focus appears to be you and how YOU don't believe something, how YOU don't want to be inconvenienced and how you FEEL oppressed. Try living in Afghanistan or N. Korea, that's oppression, you're manufacturing outrage because you can't feel as proud if you aren't some martyr for a cause.

 

[Mark Quayle]

You don't get to dictate someone having an agenda because of your distrust of them, you have to demonstrate this or you're engaging in conspiratorial magical thinking

No one is perfect, expecting that is lunacy.

The evidence of agenda is plain as the nose on, uh, Hillary's face. (Don't want to get personal, lol)

If you don't like it, then leave. See how that sounds from the other side? If you want to improve things, you don't tear the whole infrastructure down and try to rebuild in the midst of a problem, you plan for how to adjust it. And in your case, maybe take a step back and don't pretend like you're able to handle these problems that are unprecedented, with regards both to a novel coronavirus and so much misinformation stymieing progress

I'm not tearing infrastructure down. You think what you are seeing is infrastructure? I have no doubt you have a good heart. But that is more than I can say for the libs and rhinos in Congress and Governorships. I would doubt them every chance you get, if I were you. Tell me why Cuomo gets deposed for sexual misdeeds and nobody's even mentioning the bad decision to return sick old people to the nursing home. Yet they were talking like he should be the next president!

No one's saying that, so nice strawmanning. And again, you make all this bluster, but you don't appear to be doing anything besides flailing around like a recalcitrant child who doesn't get what they want

They most certainly ARE saying that. Just for an example, where do you get your data from?

I ought to behave like your recalcitrant child and just give up with an exasperated, "Whatever!" Lol, you'd like that.

 

[muichimotsu]

The evidence of agenda is plain as the nose on, uh, Hillary's face. (Don't want to get personal, lol)

You realize that's still personal in that you're basically accusing someone of being innately deceptive instead of demonstrating this evidence of agenda. SAying it's obvious is an appeal to ignorance, try again

I'm not tearing infrastructure down. You think what you are seeing is infrastructure? I have no doubt you have a good heart. But that is more than I can say for the libs and rhinos in Congress and Governorships. I would doubt them every chance you get, if I were you. Tell me why Cuomo gets deposed for sexual misdeeds and nobody's even mentioning the bad decision to return sick old people to the nursing home. Yet they were talking like he should be the next president!

Pretty sure you and your right wing ilk didn't let up on that consistently, so yeah, I didn't forget, we just moved on because we recognized the problem and learned from it. Infrastructure is the issue, it being broken means we need to address it, like how we were thoroughly unprepared to face this pandemic because people seem to think they know better than experts and equate their incredulity with skepticism, when they're not the same thing

They most certainly ARE saying that. Just for an example, where do you get your data from?

What they aren't saying is that the CDC or WHO is beyond corruption, and it isn't a mere appeal to authority when they cite them, the data is public knowledge and available to look at, you're making an mountain of a molehill here and hastily leaping to a conclusion that was not explicitly stated

I take a number of sources, there isn't just one that is 100% accurate in rendering, say, deaths, hospitalizations, even the percent of those fully vaccinated. It's a provisional assessment, which is saying something versus the 1918 pandemic where the records were far more limited, which is where we get a wide range in projections about what the total deaths were.

I ought to behave like your recalcitrant child and just give up with an exasperated, "Whatever!" Lol, you'd like that.

If you want to prove you don't have any substantial argument, be my guest, though really I should just give you a shovel so you can keep digging the hole you're already in

 

[mama2one]

never the twain shall meet

 

[loveofourlord]

It’s way too early to tell how long immunity lasts.

In general natural immunity is better. Tetanus immunity from vax lasts 8-10 years, if you get tetanus and survive you have lifetime immunity. Whooping cough immunity from vax lasts maybe 8-10 years (they think maybe 5), natural is lifetime.

Some vaccines are lifetime like polio vax, but so is natural immunity to polio.

Same with flu, natural immunity is life long for that particular strain. There is every reason to expect covid natural immunity is life long or at least longer than vax immunity.

polio can leave you in a iron lung and other things

Tetnus is extremely painful and dangerous to catch.

Whooping cough can leave you coughing for months.

Really bad examples. And you no natural flu doesn't give you immunity it's the same thing, in fact vaccines are stronger then natural flu. Both will eventually be useless due to the virus mutating enough. Your not only wrong your dangerously wrong here.

So much danger here, and guess what, getting a vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting natural immunity when you eventually catch the thing.

Also your ignoring that naturally catching chicken pox will give you shingles later in life, that measels can reset your immune system so not only isn't it going to help you it erases the immunities you already had. There is a reason why many childhood diseases killed and injured kids for millennium before vaccines.

 

[Godwilling]

47 Bible Verses About Helping Others: 7 Scriptural Themes for Generosity


^ 1. CARING FOR THE WEAK

Matthew 10:8: “Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.”


there are immunocompromised individuals who can't get the vaccine & children are not able to get vaccine yet

we ALL can get vaccinated to care for the weak & save lives

I like your enthusiasm but instead of getting the shot why not go out and heal all those inflicted with the sickness. Why get the shot if you have the power to heal yourself and others. If your faith is not there yet it is best to find those that can heal you or get the shot as a last resort. People are so quick to listen to the world view and doubt God and His Word. We should be going to God first before anything or anyone.it could all be me misunderstanding but if that is the case should you not reword what you are trying to infer.

GOD BLESS

 

[mama2one]

I like your enthusiasm but instead of getting the shot why not go out and heal all those inflicted with the sickness.

a truck hit my car on hwy shortly after getting married
the trauma caused me to develop fibromyalgia so I've been in daily pain for years

don't you think I'd be better if God wanted to heal me or gave me ability to heal myself?

I'd heal myself first if I could before going out to heal others

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

polio can leave you in a iron lung and other things

Tetnus is extremely painful and dangerous to catch.

Whooping cough can leave you coughing for months.

Really bad examples. And you no natural flu doesn't give you immunity it's the same thing, in fact vaccines are stronger then natural flu. Both will eventually be useless due to the virus mutating enough. Your not only wrong your dangerously wrong here.

So much danger here, and guess what, getting a vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting natural immunity when you eventually catch the thing.

Also your ignoring that naturally catching chicken pox will give you shingles later in life, that measels can reset your immune system so not only isn't it going to help you it erases the immunities you already had. There is a reason why many childhood diseases killed and injured kids for millennium before vaccines.

One hardly knows where to start with such a post, so I will address only a couple items.

Catching chicken pox does NOT "give you shingles later in life". Weakened immune systems make you more susceptible to other infections, like in everything else. Two thirds of adults or more will never, ever have shingles.


It’s not entirely understood why some people go on to get shingles while the virus lies dormant in the bodies of countless others. Around one in three American adults develop shingles. It's more common among folks over 70, people with weakened immune systems due to other health conditions or medications, and people under high amounts of stress.

In reality, the couple monkey studies to which you refer showed only that the immune system might temporarily suppress the immune system for 2 or 3 years after measles infection.

That's it.

"Without that immune memory, children post-measles are at greater risk of contracting pneumonia, encephalitis and other infectious diseases. The measles even seems to wipe out immunity children gain from vaccines against other infectious diseases, Mina said.

However, due to the design of the study, the researchers could only find a link between measles infection and an increased risk of other infectious diseases. The study wasn't able to prove a cause-and-effect relationship."

Did anyone actually get sick when they tested this theory of depleted immune system? Not that I can find. The immune system has little difficulty getting back up to speed. All they know is that they cannot find certain sequences for a time after, not why.

"It is known that measles weakens the immune system***, even after the initial infection has cleared, but it has not been known how. During a measles infection, people have fewer white blood cells, which protect the body against disease, and this is seen in the clinic as a low white blood cell count. However, after a few weeks, the patient's white blood cell count goes back up to previous levels and they have recovered from the measles, yet they are still much more susceptible to other infectious diseases.

To find out what measles does to the immune system, researchers looked at a group of non-vaccinated people**** in the Netherlands. Blood samples were first taken from healthy volunteers from this community, who were followed-up for repeat sampling after a measles outbreak in 2013.

The researchers sequenced antibody genes from 26 children, before and 40-50 days after their measles infection. The team discovered that specific immune memory cells that had been built up against other diseases, and were present before the measles virus infection, had disappeared from the children's blood. This would leave them vulnerable against infectious diseases they had previously been immune to."
Measles infection wipes our immune system's memory leaving us vulnerable to other diseases

 

[loveofourlord]

One hardly knows where to start with such a post, so I will address only a couple items.

Catching chicken pox does NOT "give you shingles later in life". Weakened immune systems make you more susceptible to other infections, like in everything else. Two thirds of adults or more will never, ever have shingles.


It’s not entirely understood why some people go on to get shingles while the virus lies dormant in the bodies of countless others. Around one in three American adults develop shingles. It's more common among folks over 70, people with weakened immune systems due to other health conditions or medications, and people under high amounts of stress.

In reality, the couple monkey studies to which you refer showed only that the immune system might temporarily suppress the immune system for 2 or 3 years after measles infection.

That's it.

"Without that immune memory, children post-measles are at greater risk of contracting pneumonia, encephalitis and other infectious diseases. The measles even seems to wipe out immunity children gain from vaccines against other infectious diseases, Mina said.

However, due to the design of the study, the researchers could only find a link between measles infection and an increased risk of other infectious diseases. The study wasn't able to prove a cause-and-effect relationship."

Did anyone actually get sick when they tested this theory of depleted immune system? Not that I can find. The immune system has little difficulty getting back up to speed. All they know is that they cannot find certain sequences for a time after, not why.

"It is known that measles weakens the immune system***, even after the initial infection has cleared, but it has not been known how. During a measles infection, people have fewer white blood cells, which protect the body against disease, and this is seen in the clinic as a low white blood cell count. However, after a few weeks, the patient's white blood cell count goes back up to previous levels and they have recovered from the measles, yet they are still much more susceptible to other infectious diseases.

To find out what measles does to the immune system, researchers looked at a group of non-vaccinated people**** in the Netherlands. Blood samples were first taken from healthy volunteers from this community, who were followed-up for repeat sampling after a measles outbreak in 2013.

The researchers sequenced antibody genes from 26 children, before and 40-50 days after their measles infection. The team discovered that specific immune memory cells that had been built up against other diseases, and were present before the measles virus infection, had disappeared from the children's blood. This would leave them vulnerable against infectious diseases they had previously been immune to."
Measles infection wipes our immune system's memory leaving us vulnerable to other diseases

Ummm chicken pox LITERALLY gives you shingles, it's the same virus, that was dormant in your body till your older. So ummm not a good start.

it's not 1-1 but the point is, these diseases are not harmless. Measels is also a brain disease that can lead to impairment of mental growth later. My point wasn't that these things always happen, just that to act like they were nothing is ignoring the truth.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Ummm chicken pox LITERALLY gives you shingles, it's the same virus, that was dormant in your body till your older. So ummm not a good start.

it's not 1-1 but the point is, these diseases are not harmless. Measels is also a brain disease that can lead to impairment of mental growth later. My point wasn't that these things always happen, just that to act like they were nothing is ignoring the truth.

Some will get it. Many will never, ever get it. So no, one cannot say that chicken pox "gives you shingles later in life"; that is a blatantly false assertion. Like anything else, the more vulnerable with the weaker immune systems are more susceptible.

 

[mama2one]

from mayoclinic:


Factors that may increase your risk of developing shingles include:

Being older than 50. Shingles is most common in people older than 50. The risk increases with age.

Having certain diseases. Diseases that weaken your immune system, such as HIV/AIDS and cancer, can increase your risk of shingles.

Undergoing cancer treatments. Radiation or chemotherapy can lower your resistance to diseases and may trigger shingles.

Taking certain medications. Drugs designed to prevent rejection of transplanted organs can increase your risk of shingles — as can prolonged use of steroids, such as prednisone.

 

[Godwilling]

a truck hit my car on hwy shortly after getting married
the trauma caused me to develop fibromyalgia so I've been in daily pain for years

don't you think I'd be better if God wanted to heal me or gave me ability to heal

I'd heal myself first if I could before going out to heal others

Sorry to hear what happened to you but the good news is Jesus did gave us the ability to heal ourselves and others too. I can see your doubt in the words you write. GOD IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER. If he will do it for one then He will do it for you. GOD IS NOT A RESPECTOR OF PERSONS so if he will heal one person then He will definitely heal you too. Keith Moore has a series on healing and acquired 101 verses stating healing is ours. The ball is now in your court. Do you ignore or go after your healing.

GOD BLESS

 

[TLK Valentine]

The most rational the debate gets, anymore, is, "The CDC says", or "The WHO says", etc. As though the CDC etc was beyond corruption and agenda...

Are you?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Sorry to hear what happened to you but the good news is Jesus did gave us the ability to heal ourselves and others too. I can see your doubt in the words you write. GOD IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER. If he will do it for one then He will do it for you. GOD IS NOT A RESPECTOR OF PERSONS so if he will heal one person then He will definitely heal you too. Keith Moore has a series on healing and acquired 101 verses stating healing is ours. The ball is now in your court. Do you ignore or go after your healing.

GOD BLESS

COVID-19 is no respector of persons, either -- I think you'll find a believer is just as likely to get sick, get hospitalized, and/or die as a heathen.

God makes the sun shine of the good and the wicked, the rain to fall on the just and unjust alike, and the viruses to infect the faithful as surely as the unfaithful.

Vaccination shifts the odds a lot better than God has any intention of doing.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Are you?

Of course not. Who is? But the slavish trust of the left in those leftists in authority is mind boggling to me.

 

[Tinker Grey]

The irony is palpable.

But the slavish trust of the left in those leftists in authority is mind boggling to me.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Of course not. Who is? But the slavish trust of the left in those leftists in authority is mind boggling to me.

The CDC is a leftist conspiracy? Since when?

There's nothing slavish about trusting experts... If you need shoes, go to your shoemaker. If you need your car repaired, don't go to your shoemaker.

Have you consulted your own doctor is this matter, or did you suddenly figure out after all these years how much smarter you are than him?