helping others by getting vaccine

[classical5]

That's not happening in the US. Calm down, count to twenty, and discuss some actual issues.

Hawaii set to roll out COVID vaccine passport for gyms, bars, and other businesses

New York Rolls Out Vaccine Passport Program – AIER

More than 150 Houston hospital workers fired or quit after refusing COVID-19 vaccine

CNN fires three employees who went into the office unvaccinated.

There’s plenty more all you have to do is use your Internet search engine.

 

[classical5]

That's not happening in the US. Calm down, count to twenty, and discuss some actual issues.





Neverthess, businesses have the right to do so, whether they choose to exercise it or not.



Intelligent medical concern, or the paranoid rantings of people who got their pharmaceutical certification from the University of Facebook?



The law protects -- and has always protected -- such people, within reason, of course.

If you have a medical exemption, you need to provide documentation from a doctor -- a real doctor; not Phil, Oz, or Seuss.
If you have a religious exemption, you're going to need to cite chapter and verse.

Some people cite religious exemptions to certain vaccines because they were made with fetal stem cells, which goes against their pro-life views. Fair enough, but none of the Covid vaccines use them, so that exemption won't wash.




That's nice. Might I suggest you write your congressperson to change the laws, then?

Basically your position is that the vaccine should be mandatory, and exceptions are technically allowed but won’t be granted in reality.

How are you going to enforce your diktat? What type of pogrom will you create to root out the unwilling? Ban people from participating in commerce unless they have the proper papers, or mark of obedience?

Or will you mark those who are not vaccinated, maybe with a yellow patch on their clothes?

That’s the logical approach to your diktat.

 

[mama2one]

this is what happens in states with low vaccination rates:


'You're crying': Mississippi's fourth Covid wave is its worst


"This is what the fourth wave of the pandemic in Mississippi looks like: As of Thursday, only seven ICU beds were available in the state, and 96 patients needed them, according to the state Department of Health."


"Several patients at Mississippi Children’s are on ventilators. One death from Covid complications has already been reported this school year: Mkayla Robinson, an eighth grader attending public school in Smith County, died on Saturday. She tested positive for the virus the day before."



"In recent days, the state’s public health leaders, as well as Reeves, have repeated the CDC’s warning that the crisis is now a “pandemic of the unvaccinated.”

“My personal sense is it’s 100 percent of the patients that I’m taking care of that are unvaccinated,” said Dr. Jawauna Stewart, a hospitalist in Hattiesburg.

One of her newer patients, a 23-year-old, told her she had planned to get vaccinated the next week — the virus had just caught her first."

 

[TLK Valentine]

Hawaii set to roll out COVID vaccine passport for gyms, bars, and other businesses

From the link: "Businesses would not be required to implement the vaccine passport."

New York Rolls Out Vaccine Passport Program – AIER

From the link: "While advertised as a “voluntary” measure, New York State officials are making it clear that not participating in the program will result in an individual being essentially shut out from society."

Now that sounds troubling, but without more info, it's hard to tell if the source isn't just fearmongering.

More than 150 Houston hospital workers fired or quit after refusing COVID-19 vaccine

Business sets policy.
Employees violate policy.
Employees become ex-employees.

Happens in businesses all around the world.

CNN fires three employees who went into the office unvaccinated.

From the link: "CNN had said this year that employees would need to be vaccinated against the virus in order to return to its American offices. The network has been relying on an honor system rather than requiring proof of vaccination status."

See my response to the Houston link -- if you have no honor, you have no job.

There’s plenty more all you have to do is use your Internet search engine.

Helps when you actually read the links your search engine provides.

The government has limits to how much authority it can exercise over businesses -- you, otoh, have no authority at all.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Basically your position is that the vaccine should be mandatory, and exceptions are technically allowed but won’t be granted in reality.

Wrong.

My position, basically (and explicitly) is that employers have the right (and indeed, the obligation) to provide for the health and safety of their employees and customers. Adding Covid to the already extensive list is no difficulty whatsoever.

How are you going to enforce your diktat? What type of pogrom will you create to root out the unwilling? Ban people from participating in commerce unless they have the proper papers, or mark of obedience?

Or will you mark those who are not vaccinated, maybe with a yellow patch on their clothes?

That’s the logical approach to your diktat.

Not my diktat -- I'll leave it to the professionals:

Home | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

Why have you never railed against their pogroms until now? Was it not fashionable?

 

[muichimotsu]

I have trouble understanding that if a person is vaccinated, why the insistence that everyone also get vaccinated? Relax! You've positioned yourself for good health and joy. Be at peace!

Because of basic herd immunity as a principle for reducing spread and all but eliminating the risks of a pandemic with viral variants and mutations. This shouldn't be, "I've got mine, everyone else is on their own," unless you're a sociopath that doesn't care about others except as they can benefit you. The cliche of "we're all in this together," is apt and appropriate, because this is about a common good, not just what is good for individuals.

 

[muichimotsu]

Nor are the opinions of those who want to maintain this bogus panic, evidence.

So your opinions are more important because you want to downplay something that you have an opinion about it not being so bad? Weird...seems like a "do as I say, not as I do," situation

 

[Taodeching]

we ALL can get vaccinated to care for the weak & save lives

The anti vaxxers will never care. It is like talking to a brick wall

 

[muichimotsu]

Is anyone advocating this vaccine for covid? Not sure why you'd bring it up.

It's the good old cherry picking fallacy to act like because this one vaccine had problems that you can't trust any, yet I'd bet money they have childhood vaccines that by their logic are also dangerous yet...no problems, so...guess their argument has no real merit given that they're finding the confirmation to their preconception and not considering that the exception is not the rule

 

[muichimotsu]

So just torture them into submission? Just kill them if they won’t do what you want them to do? Because that’s what you and others are proposing.

Wow, need WAY more straw to fill this effigy you're making, as if anyone is claiming that: the flagrant lying you're doing is embarrassing.

No torture involved and no killing, there are consequences to actions and they aren't inflicted by the government, they're inflicted by a free market. Or do you support communism now because it's convenient to avoid having responsibility for your fellow citizen?

 

[muichimotsu]

I don't know, some people might think that a vastly higher death rate for getting natural immunity would matter.

The Great Barrington Statement or such comes to mind, a borderline sociopathic justification to get back to "normal"

 

[muichimotsu]

You ignore the unknown nature and risk of the vaccine. A vax that has been out less than 1 year, uses new tech never before used in humans or on any large population. And is highly politicized.

Who started the politicizing here? Pretty sure it wasn't the Democrats nearly as much as Republicans and "independents" who wanted to claim anyone that wasn't in their preferred sphere of "experts" must be lying to them.

1 word (or 2): QAnon

 

[mama2one]

another heartbreaking story


The mother of a college student who died 'screaming through the mask' wished she had made her get the COVID-19 vaccine


"A memory her mother can’t get out of her head - her daughter screaming after the doctors told her she needed to be on a ventilator."

 

[Mark Quayle]

So your opinions are more important because you want to downplay something that you have an opinion about it not being so bad? Weird...seems like a "do as I say, not as I do," situation

You have the science, I don't?

I keep hearing the shaming, the power plays, the political correctness, the threats, but not the science. The science I do hear from the left keeps changing and making no sense. ("For the first time in human history those who exhibit no symptoms can transmit a disease to those innoculated against it.")

The science I hear from the right keeps getting shouted down and otherwise squelched or ignored. And I can't begin to tell you the data from the left that sounds all wrong, not to mention the early directives on reporting. The ONLY thing about this from the left that I believe is that there is indeed a Covid 19. What I hear from the right isn't much better, as far as the Covid, but there is a lot of other I hear from the right that does make sense: Don't trust the left, don't trust the governors, don't trust the agencies. Don't believe Congress or the Press. The current force of Government activity does not have our best interests in mind.

 

[mama2one]

("For the first time in human history those who exhibit no symptoms can transmit a disease to those innoculated against it.").

no, not first time in history!

ever had the flu shot? did they tell you it's 100% effective?
what about chicken pox?

Can your kid still get the chicken pox if they’ve had the shot?

"When the vaccine was first introduced in Canada, kids were only given one dose—which provided 94 percent protection. After doctors saw some breakthrough chicken pox in patients who had only received one shot, a second one was added in the early 2000s."


the delta virus has a high viral load
the covid vaccines are highly protective against hospitalizations & death
if a vaccinated person gets virus, they mostly likely won't be stuck with $40,000 medical bill nor end up on a ventilator

 

[Mark Quayle]

no, not first time in history!

ever had the flu shot? did they tell you it's 100% effective?
absolutely not, in fact the flu shot has a pretty poor protection most years

the delta virus has a high viral load
the covid vaccines are highly protective against hospitalizations & death
if a vaccinated person gets virus, they mostly likely won't be stuck with $40,000 medical bill nor end up on a ventilator

It's a quote, and a pretty funny one at that. It is meant to point out the ridiculousness of the situation in which we find ourselves.

I could make up such a saying from what you just said: "So we are now innoculating against hospitals and death." See what I mean about how the narrative is just ...weird?

 

[mama2one]

I could make up such a saying from what you just said: "So we are now innoculating against hospitals and death." See what I mean about how the narrative is just ...weird?

not weird at all!
articles & tv reports say vaccines are highly effective against hospitalization & death & still are even with delta

when husband got his vaccine, I said "now you're protected from hospitalization/death

I never said "you'll never get virus"

I got mine when delta came out & teen got hers to go back to in person school
if exposed at school & unvaccinated, kids have to quarantine @ home for 10 days!

 

[Taodeching]

another heartbreaking story


The mother of a college student who died 'screaming through the mask' wished she had made her get the COVID-19 vaccine


"A memory her mother can’t get out of her head - her daughter screaming after the doctors told her she needed to be on a ventilator."

Very sad . Do the anti vaxxers care me wonders.

 

[muichimotsu]

You have the science, I don't?

I keep hearing the shaming, the power plays, the political correctness, the threats, but not the science. The science I do hear from the left keeps changing and making no sense. ("For the first time in human history those who exhibit no symptoms can transmit a disease to those innoculated against it.")

The science I hear from the right keeps getting shouted down and otherwise squelched or ignored. And I can't begin to tell you the data from the left that sounds all wrong, not to mention the early directives on reporting. The ONLY thing about this from the left that I believe is that there is indeed a Covid 19. What I hear from the right isn't much better, as far as the Covid, but there is a lot of other I hear from the right that does make sense: Don't trust the left, don't trust the governors, don't trust the agencies. Don't believe Congress or the Press. The current force of Government activity does not have our best interests in mind.

You hear what fits your preconceptions and don't challenge that

Science is not 100% certain, you don't appear to understand the methodology or investigation and principles that acknowledge the novel nature of a virus that can evolve as this does. When you don't even have the foundational aspects of knowledge, of course you're going to act like change means there's inconsistency instead of NEW DATA

Science is not and should not be politicized, you're associating it purely based on someone's partisan connection and not the methodology and reliability of the data and studies in question, showing how thoroughly ignorant you are of science and how it is done to begin with and just spread misinformation by your confirmation bias.

You conflate trust with absolute faith, I don't have the latter with regards to any of the authorities you cite (most of which aren't scientists, btw, the agencies have experts within them that are doing their best and you treat them like they're just mindless drones), I have provisional belief that things are as they say within reason and that these preventative measures are for the good of everyone even if some can be opportunistic and exploit things that are a product of capitalism in excess where profits are more valuable than people.

 

[muichimotsu]

It's a quote, and a pretty funny one at that. It is meant to point out the ridiculousness of the situation in which we find ourselves.

I could make up such a saying from what you just said: "So we are now innoculating against hospitals and death." See what I mean about how the narrative is just ...weird?

You don't inoculate against death, that is an inevitability even if you are protected against virtually all diseases, hospitalization and death from that is avoidable with the following of reasonable medical advice, which includes wearing masks in public areas of high traffic during an epidemic of this highly transmittable virus and getting vaccinated

Seems to me if you think you know better, then you shouldn't really be involved with the modern medical field at all, because clearly you don't need their help, you can take care of yourself. And that childish mentality will bite you in the rear by basic causality when you behave as badly as a a 5 year old who doesn't like being told they have to go to bed at 8. Except the 5 year old can be excused to a degree and learn the problem, but you're an adult, yet aren't acting with the maturity or wisdom of one