Help.

[FGEH]

Sir, you must reconsider your job which I assume is what causes you to be away. Your daughter needs you to not put your job ahead of her well being and safety.

I had to take a significant career detour for about 10 years for the sake of giving my kids what they needed in an upbringing. I have a number of degrees that would have allowed me to follow a lucrative career path. I've never caught up to where I could have been, but I've caught up enough. So I'm not telling you to do anything I have not had to make the choice to do myself.

Guys usually don't have a mindset to consider this so quickly while we women know it's part of our path. In your case, your wife is not providing the mothering and protection that your daughter needs. It is very important that you do not abandon your daughter to this den of dysfunction for the sake of your job.

Agree entirely however, it will take time to leave my current job, secure new employment which means I am at home every night then secure a new house. In the meantime, I'm at a loss.

 

[Endeavourer]

The separation does not need to be adversarial.

The current situation is not working out for either your wife (who you love) or you.

What if you approached her with the idea that she and her son move to an apartment until he is old enough that he should leave the house, while you and the daughter stay in your house. The wife can come anytime she likes and can stay there while you're gone with your daughter, but the son would need to stay in the apartment and never enter the house. This would also make sure your home is not subject to a drug forfeiture action.

She may welcome a solution to all of the strife as well.

You can date on Friday nights and spend Saturday and Sunday with your daughter. Your wife can stay over whenever she wants to, etc etc. You will probably find your marriage dramatically improving without the stressor of the son's day to day commotion.

When she complains about his latest antics, I'd just empathize along very supportively, but not offer solutions or advice. That will just get you into trouble and continue enabling her to enable him.

This will allow your marriage to heal and move forward without the stress of the son.

In the meantime you get a job where you are at home at nights ASAP.

The cost of the apartment is the least of your problems, but if/when your wife ever moves in permanently with your daughter you can either give your son notice he'll need to start paying - OR - just keep paying it for a while if your wife is not enthusiastic about him paying.

I don't at all like the idea of enabling him by paying for his rent, but you need to put your daughter and marriage first; the price of monthly rent is very small compared to the price of a divorce.

 

[sdmsanjose]

FGEH
I know that you are suffering and weakened but it is very important that you not allow your son to continue to harm the whole family. Your son’s rebellion against you, his mother, and God must face consequences; you must take strong action against your son even if you have to have conflict you’re your wife.


I am sorry to put this responsibility on you but if you do not stand up you will become a door mat and things will get worse…Although not exactly like your situation, there is a story in the bible about Eli the priest that did not give his sons consequences and the sons forced God to put an end to their rebellion in a very serious way (death). In addition, the son’s rebellion caused the whole family to suffer a lot, including the father. If you want to read the text for yourself it is in First Samuel, chapter 2 and 3.


I know that your situation is somewhat different than Eli but the point is that the father has the obligation to take action when the son is rebellious.. The text in Samuel clearly shows that God can take very serious actions against those that defy God and disrepect God and their parents.

 

[Endeavourer]

FGEH
I know that you are suffering and weakened but it is very important that you not allow your son to continue to harm the whole family. Your son’s rebellion against you, his mother, and God must face consequences; you must take strong action against your son even if you have to have conflict you’re your wife.

I am sorry to put this responsibility on you but if you do not stand up you will become a door mat and things will get worse…Although not exactly like your situation, there is a story in the bible about Eli the priest that did not give his sons consequences and the sons forced God to put an end to their rebellion in a very serious way (death). In addition, the son’s rebellion caused the whole family to suffer a lot, including the father. If you want to read the text for yourself it is in First Samuel, chapter 2 and 3.

I know that your situation is somewhat different than Eli but the point is that the father has the obligation to take action when the son is rebellious.. The text in Samuel clearly shows that God can take very serious actions against those that defy God and disrepect God and their parents.

Jose presents another problem that needs to be dealt with.

Jose, I would suggest that he does not actually have accountability as the father because, although he was willing, the mother would not allow him to assume his rightful role to her minor child in his home.

Unfortunately I have some experience with a family connected to me where the natural mother countermanded and put down the natural father to their son, and the toxic results and dysfunction were very similar to the above (minus the drugs and stealing). When the father took steps to try to overcome this, the wife alienated the two daughters as well so most evenings when he arrived home from work there was a hateful outpouring against him by the entire family. There was simply nothing the father could do short of leave the family and divorce the wife, which two Christian counselors advised him to do for the sake of his sanity. Today the oldest two children still bitterly hate him and the youngest is finally starting to open up intermittently, but the oldest two influence her to keep going back to cruel treatment of her father. It is a well of grief to this father who still deeply loves his children.

In this case the minor child, though he was willing to father it, was withheld from his fatherly attempts.

I agree with everything you suggested he do from an ethical/moral standpoint and for the good of the young man, but it will cost him his marriage to a wife he still loves and potentially cause the daughter's home situation to explode.

Girls are very emotionally traumatized with this type of drama in their homes. The OP hasn't said how old she is, but my guess is adolescence - early/mid teens. This is a time in her life where she needs protection and stability or else she could suffer emotional damage that will take some years to overcome, if she does.

If the OP takes the action you suggest (which would be moral and ethical), based on what we know about his wife, it's likely she would become embittered, embattled and the daughter would suffer alienation against him in his absence. Now he has lost two children instead of one, and to the second child's lasting harm.

So, is his concern the son or is it the marriage along with the daughter?

I would suggest his concern is the marriage and daughter, and that he leave the fool to its mother because that's the only path she has allowed him with her (not his) son.

Thoughts?

 

[Endeavourer]

Girls are very emotionally traumatized with this type of drama in their homes. The OP hasn't said how old she is, but my guess is adolescence - early/mid teens. This is a time in her life where she needs protection and stability or else she could suffer emotional damage that will take some years to overcome, if she does.

These are the girls who start engaging in cutting, medicating (whether by pot or worse, Oxycontin or alcohol), eating disorders or becoming promiscuous in search of some/any affirmation.

Often they engage in many other self destructive behaviors as well, and they tend to migrate towards other hurting kids who also engage in these, or worse, behaviors. Often these are the "goth" kids, or the ones who experiment with their sexuality.

This time of a young girl's life is very delicate.

Some respond with strength to adversities, but many collapse as I have described above.

 

[FGEH]

Thank you all for advice. All of it very meaning and exactly what I have been thinking but thought I was terrible to think that.
I can't stand the son anymore. That might sound horrible but I can't help how I feel. He craps all over me every chance he gets and a wife who will do absolutely nothing about it apart from bleat on how it is all my fault.
I am picking up the courage and sitting the wife down tonight. I think a separation is likely as she won't back down. I have a rough road ahead but have 17 years of a rough road behind me. I feel so ill Mentally at the minute and I just can't do this anymore.

 

[FGEH]

Jose presents another problem that needs to be dealt with.

Jose, I would suggest that he does not actually have accountability as the father because, although he was willing, the mother would not allow him to assume his rightful role to her minor child in his home.

Unfortunately I have some experience with a family connected to me where the natural mother countermanded and put down the natural father to their son, and the toxic results and dysfunction were very similar to the above (minus the drugs and stealing). When the father took steps to try to overcome this, the wife alienated the two daughters as well so most evenings when he arrived home from work there was a hateful outpouring against him by the entire family. There was simply nothing the father could do short of leave the family and divorce the wife, which two Christian counselors advised him to do for the sake of his sanity. Today the oldest two children still bitterly hate him and the youngest is finally starting to open up intermittently, but the oldest two influence her to keep going back to cruel treatment of her father. It is a well of grief to this father who still deeply loves his children.

In this case the minor child, though he was willing to father it, was withheld from his fatherly attempts.

I agree with everything you suggested he do from an ethical/moral standpoint and for the good of the young man, but it will cost him his marriage to a wife he still loves and potentially cause the daughter's home situation to explode.

Girls are very emotionally traumatized with this type of drama in their homes. The OP hasn't said how old she is, but my guess is adolescence - early/mid teens. This is a time in her life where she needs protection and stability or else she could suffer emotional damage that will take some years to overcome, if she does.

If the OP takes the action you suggest (which would be moral and ethical), based on what we know about his wife, it's likely she would become embittered, embattled and the daughter would suffer alienation against him in his absence. Now he has lost two children instead of one, and to the second child's lasting harm.

So, is his concern the son or is it the marriage along with the daughter?

I would suggest his concern is the marriage and daughter, and that he leave the fool to its mother because that's the only path she has allowed him with her (not his) son.

Thoughts?

My daughter is 13 and she has all of my love. We have been inseparable since she was born. She is my Angel.

Having said that, as she now hits adolescents, her being a little grumpy is natural but she is also very influential. I am already seeing signs of mother in her unfortunately. Mainly the tendency to blame everyone but yourself when something goes wrong and I have no doubt, the alienation that you speak off will happen. I will not be able to cope if the daughter turns against me. Nothing will break my heart more.

 

[FGEH]

My daughter is 13 and she has all of my love. We have been inseparable since she was born. She is my Angel.

Having said that, as she now hits adolescents, her being a little grumpy is natural but she is also very influential. I am already seeing signs of mother in her unfortunately. Mainly the tendency to blame everyone but yourself when something goes wrong and I have doubt, the alienation that you speak off will happen. I will not be able to cope if the daughter turns on against me. Nothing will break my heart more.

 

[Endeavourer]

Thank you all for advice. All of it very meaning and exactly what I have been thinking but thought I was terrible to think that.
I can't stand the son anymore. That might horrible but I can't help how I feel. He craps all over me every chance he gets and a wife who will do absolutely nothing about it apart from bleat on how it is all my fault.

You are not terrible to think that, but your mindset that your wife "bleats" will not be helpful to productively resolving your problem.

What proceeds out of the mouth is from the heart, so if your heart is very disrespectful of her, then this is likely showing in your tone and words towards her.

Would your wife be willing to post in a forum that could help the two of you work together on productively and respectfully negotiating? This way the forum would be giving her all the hard education about her behavior instead of you. When one spouse tries to educate another it often goes terribly wrong, especially about emotionally laden topics.

What do you think about this article?

The Policy of Joint Agreement

 

[Endeavourer]

I am picking up the courage and sitting the wife down tonight. I think a separation is likely as she won't back down. I have a rough road ahead but have 17 years of a rough road behind me. I feel so ill Mentally at the minute and I just can't do this anymore.

This sit down doesn't need to be a flame out. You mentioned that you still love your wife.

What about something like this:

"Wife, you are the love of my life and I look forward to a long future with you.

"The living arrangement we currently have has become very difficult for me, however, and I have been kicking around some ideas for the short term that I wanted to float with you to see what might be amenable to you.

"I fear that if we continue like this our love for each other will be destroyed, our marriage will end and our children will suffer a broken home.

"What would you think of temporarily renting an apartment where son and you could reside until son is ready to move on and support himself as an adult? You could come here to visit (or stay) any time you liked and we could go out for date nights on Fridays."

If she reacts strongly, at all costs, don't engage in a fight. That will be very destructive to your marriage.

If necessary just repeat this two or three times: "I love you very much and don't want to hurt your feelings in a fight. Let's talk about your ideas when you are not upset." If that doesn't help her anger, then say "I don't want to fight so I'm going for a walk." and then leave the room.

You could show her the article I just linked to you and ask if she would be willing to negotiate a solution with the help of a forum hosted by the marriage counselor who wrote those rules.

Thoughts?

 

[Endeavourer]

My daughter is 13 and she has all of my love. We have been inseparable since she was born. She is my Angel.

Having said that, as she now hits adolescents, her being a little grumpy is natural but she is also very influential. I am already seeing signs of mother in her unfortunately. Mainly the tendency to blame everyone but yourself when something goes wrong and I have no doubt, the alienation that you speak off will happen. I will not be able to cope if the daughter turns against me. Nothing will break my heart more.

FGEH, a job change should be your #1 priority ASAP.

You may want to consider deferring the conversation you were thinking about having tonight until you have a non-traveling job in case the conversation goes awry and you need to separate quickly.

I understand only a little the heartbreak you will experience from the alienation. I experienced a taste of that which fortunately has been resolved; however, my xH changed his ways and began encouraging the girls opposite of his prior alienations which changed the dynamics entirely. This occurred when one of my teen daughters was starting to break down emotionally and he realized what he needed to do for her good.

Most bitter, alienating spouses do not have that epiphany.

 

[FGEH]

This sit down doesn't need to be a flame out. You mentioned that you still love your wife.

What about something like this:

"Wife, you are the love of my life and I look forward to a long future with you.

"The living arrangement we currently have has become very difficult for me, however, and I have been kicking around some ideas for the short term that I wanted to float with you to see what might be amenable to you.

"I fear that if we continue like this our love for each other will be destroyed, our marriage will end and our children will suffer a broken home.

"What would you think of temporarily renting an apartment where son and you could reside until son is ready to move on and support himself as an adult? You could come here to visit (or stay) any time you liked and we could go out for date nights on Fridays."

If she reacts strongly, at all costs, don't engage in a fight. That will be very destructive to your marriage.

If necessary just repeat this two or three times: "I love you very much and don't want to hurt your feelings in a fight. Let's talk about your ideas when you are not upset." If that doesn't help her anger, then say "I don't want to fight so I'm going for a walk." and then leave the room.

You could show her the article I just linked to you and ask if she would be willing to negotiate a solution with the help of a forum hosted by the marriage counselor who wrote those rules.

Thoughts?

That sounds good I will try that. However, my wife's defence mechanism is to start shouting loudly calling me every name under the sun followed by the water works that she can turn on and off. There is just no calm conversation with my wife. Just her way to get what she wants is through screaming, shouting and tears as proven yesterday at the councillor.

 

[Endeavourer]

However, my wife's defence mechanism is to start shouting loudly calling me every name under the sun followed by the water works that she can turn on and off. There is just no calm conversation with my wife. Just her way to get what she wants is through screaming, shouting and tears as proven yesterday at the councillor.

Hopefully the initial comment about loving her & wanting a future with her will help avoid defensiveness, as well as your refusal to place the blame on her in the conversation. As scripted, there is no blame.

However, this conversation does represent a point of high danger to the continuation of your marriage, so if you could endure to defer the conversation until you have another job that might be better for your daughter.

How long will it take you to find another job?

 

[Endeavourer]

What do you think about this article?

How to Negotiate When You Are an Emotional Person

 

[Endeavourer]

There is just no calm conversation with my wife. Just her way to get what she wants is through screaming, shouting and tears as proven yesterday at the councillor.

I would propose a different interpretation to her emotions. This is her (unfortunately, unproductive) way to express that she is hurting too and that her complaints are not being addressed, either.

You both have radically different desires for your living rules and discipline.

She is not here telling her side of the story, but most women don't get to the point you described unless a lot of time has passed by without their complaints being heard. She surely wasn't like this when you married her?

What do you think of this article?

How to Deal with a Quarrelsome and Nagging Wife by Willard F. Harley, Jr.

 

[FGEH]

I have just had the talk with the wife where I asked for a separation. I am so upset. She didn't take it too well. She didn't shout like I thought she would. She was just going on about how I have been a s&&t dad and a s££t husband. She accused me of not taking my wedding vows seriously and accused me of now leaving her alone to deal with son. I told her my mental Health is failing and I will be seriously ill very soon under these conditions. She didn't seem sympathetic, nor did she offer any kind of solutions to deal with son. Just blamed me again for his behaviours.
I feel so hurt right now. I love her dearly.

 

[Endeavourer]

It's important to work together to find a solution that you're mutually enthusiastic about.

 

[LinkH]

If he's 18, maybe you could get him set up with a job, a deposit, and first months rent.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Your son’s rebellion against you, his mother, and God must face consequences; you must take strong action against your son even if you have to have conflict you’re your wife.

I am sorry to put this responsibility on you but if you do not stand up you will become a door mat and things will get worse


By Endeavourer
Jose, I would suggest that he does not actually have accountability as the father because, although he was willing, the mother would not allow him to assume his rightful role to her minor child in his home.

Here below are a few sentences that FGEH has posted that describe some of the activities of his son.

By Endeavourer
He has been ripping me off for years, not just money but anything of value. He is 18 now and is still doing it. He even brazenly admits it and says it is to "support his lifestyle" (drugs)
it is my money/jewellery/possessions that have been stolen, (he doesn't steal her things) She expects me to just "get over it,"

With the above situation FGEH does have the responsibility to do what he can to stop this very destructive situation that is tearing his family apart. He can get the police involved and have the son to face the consequences of his thefts and drug use. FGEH’s wife cannot stop FGEH from getting the law involved in these crimes. She may turn against FGEH but she is already doing that. Making the son accountable may even help the boy change. Regardless of his change, FGEH’s health is in danger and he has his minor daughter to think about.





Based upon what has been posted, no amount of talking is going to make a significant change as it will take strong actions. I know that getting the proof of his son’s stealing and illegal drugs will require some planning but what other options does he have to confront this strong and willful defiance?





FGEH does not have any easy options but by making the son accountable, even if that means he goes to jail, there will be hope for FGEH and his daughter to have a better life and maybe help the marriage in the long run. Allowing the situation to continue, as has been in the past, is a guarantee that nothing will get better and probably worse.





FGEH’s emotional dependence on his wife is too much co-dependence especially considering her actions that are very detrimental to the whole family.

 

[FGEH]

If he's 18, maybe you could get him set up with a job, a deposit, and first months rent.

The wife has made it very clear, he is going nowhere.
He has been on a mission to get me out for years. Even saying to his mum "I was here first."