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The post was made purposefully and if I took it personally, I would have reported him.By mistake or on purpose?
(i just thought you shouldn't take it personally, sorry i butted in..)
I am glad I'm not the only one who is confused about this. I know God is one, He is everlasting, the father. Did he create Yeshua (Jesus) in the beginning? He is Elohim for the first chapter of Genisis and the second chapter after creation he is called YHWY Elohim. Then John talks about in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Yeshua means YHWH is salvation. Shema states God is one. Was he created by the creator or is He the creator? God the father is called everlasting but Yeshua is the Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end. How can one be everlasting and the other the beginning and the end? Could they be Two and are one like a family? Could they be 3 like a trinity? Maybe our little human minds are not supposed to be able to comprehend it (put God in a box)I don't know I guess like you claimed we will know on the day of the Lord.Correct.
YHWH Elohim a.k.a. 'the Godhead' is ONE GOD.But YHWH Elohim is, even in the Old testament.
"Elohim" is a plural.I.m.o. it's just as unfathomable as timelessness. Because God exists beyond time, He created time "In the beginning" (Genesis 1:1).
Time seems to be a part of creation.
The universe is also called "space-time reality".
What is beyond / above this, is unfathomable for a human being on earth in the flesh.
It's fascinating though.
Impressive.
To make things more confusing, we can identify a number of persons that is YHWH Elohim.
Obviously there is Father, Son (or Word), Holy Spirit.
But also 'the Angel of God' appears to be God, 'the Name' is mentioned as a person and is God, 'Melchizedek' also seems to be a person who is God.
They all are YHWH Elohim, yet they appear to be distinct persons, but ONE GOD none the less.
I think it is safe to say that the Father is the Highest Person within GOD.
None the less, John 1:1 states that it is the Word that created everything that exists.
And the Word became flesh, this is Jesus Christ.
But it seems Jesus Christ is taken up in Heaven as the Word in the flesh.
So what happened to the Word that was not flesh?
Did He change forever?
...but GOD does not change !
So to repeat your question:
"How does that even make sense at all?"
I don't know.
But it makes GOD even more Majestic in my opinion.
One day we will no longer see through a veil, but things will be revealed to us, we will see Him in all his Glory, and we can't help but praise Him.
So of course I believe in the Son, Father and Holy Ghost, but I believe that they are all in one. Some Christian's like the one's who are into the Trinity believe that they are all separate spirits. Trinity is found no where in the Bible though. So how does that even make sense at all? I also have another question concerning the matter. So how about Baptism? Are there really several ways to Baptiste or is there really only one real way?
It's tantamount to the same thing.
I am glad I'm not the only one who is confused about this. I know God is one, He is everlasting, the father. Did he create Yeshua (Jesus) in the beginning?
I wasn't quoting I was making a statement. It's already been well-established that I don't consider your views Orthodox nor correct.One can say something heretical without being a heretic. A heretic willfully believes heresy. One can, unknowingly, espouse a heretical opinion; the issue is how one responds to correction when they come to hear the orthodox teaching on the matter.
“What is meant by the Holy Trinity?” (H. Maldwyn Hughes, M. A., D. D. Christian foundations, An introduction to Christian doctrine, page 137, ‘The Holy Trinity’ fourth edition, July 1933)In this case, the orthodox teaching is that God does not exist in "three manifestations", but that God exists in three distinct Hypostases; we often call these "Persons" in English by way of the Latin personae used as a (not very good) translation of the Greek term hypostases. The trouble with the use of personae/persons goes back to the early centuries of the Church; the heretics Sabellius and Praxeas taught that God was a single hypostasis who presented Himself as three prosopa (usually translated into Latin as personae) the word prosopon (plural prosopa) referred to the masks worn by actors in a Greek drama. A single actor would wear different masks to place different roles.
I wasn't quoting I was making a statement. It's already been well-established that I don't consider your views Orthodox nor correct.
“What is meant by the Holy Trinity?” (H. Maldwyn Hughes, M. A., D. D. Christian foundations, An introduction to Christian doctrine, page 137, ‘The Holy Trinity’ fourth edition, July 1933)
“We learn from the New Testament that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, three Persons are one God. That is a statement of the materials out of which the doctrine of the Trinity has been fashioned.”
http://carm.org/trinity
The following is taken from volume III:406-421 of The Sermons of Martin Luther.
"This word signifies that there are three persons in God. It is a heavenly mystery which the world cannot understand. I have often told you that this, as well as every other article of faith, must not be based upon reason or comparisons, but must be understood and established by means of passages from the Scriptures, for God has the only perfect knowledge and knows how to speak concerning himself."
Totally has to do with the topic because they're your views, so does that mean that you went off topic? If a person makes a statement and another person calls that statement heretical then they're calling that person a heretic, it's pretty simple.What you think of my views isn't really on topic; my response was intended to explain that saying a statement is heretical isn't the same as accusing someone of being a heretic. Further, I'm not providing simply my own opinions on the subject, I'm articulating what is accepted orthodox dogma.
Correct.
Three Persons or Hypostases, not manifestations.
Totally has to do with the topic because they're your views, so does that mean that you went off topic? If a person makes a statement and another person calls that statement heretical then they're calling that person a heretic, it's pretty simple.
It may be your dogma but it's not Orthodox in any way shape or form.
Not from where I'm sitting and all you do is deny any representation not in keeping with your own narrow view. How about you articulate it right out of scripture using your own words? I'm not about to get into a war of course with you. If you can't articulate it in your own words then it really doesn't mean much does it.What is and isn't objectively orthodox Christian teaching on the Trinity is very well attested. If you think my views are not orthodox, then you could present a response showing how they aren't. But I would be more than happy to provide numerous sources to back up the things I've said: the Creeds, the writings of the Fathers, well respected theologians from across theological/denominational boundaries.
Not to those who haven't been inculcated into their own dogma.I explained why a term like "manifestation" is inappropriate, because it indicates a Modalistic perspective.
The substance of your posts are simply argumentative, they don't say much they just disagree. I don't know you so I can't have any issues with you, I only have issues with the way you post. Start posting with some real content and maybe we can have some real discussions.It seems to me like you want to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative rather than addressing the substance of my posts. Whatever issues you may have with me personally really aren't germane to the present discussion.
[/QUOTE]Not from where I'm sitting and all you do is deny any representation not in keeping with your own narrow view. How about you articulate it right out of scripture using your own words? I'm not about to get into a war of course with you. If you can't articulate it in your own words then it really doesn't mean much does it.
I explained why a term like "manifestation" is inappropriate, because it indicates a Modalistic perspective.
It seems to me like you want to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative rather than addressing the substance of my posts. Whatever issues you may have with me personally really aren't germane to the present discussion.
-CryptoLutheran
I always do, maybe you should check your browser settings.It helps to use the reply button so we can discriminate where your posts end and someone else's begins.......
I always do, maybe you should check your browser settings.[/QUOTE]It helps to use the reply button so we can discriminate where your posts end and someone else's begins.......
The Trinity
He posted that a few months back in another thread; I laughed so hard I had to go change my Depends......We need some more humor in Christian circles.......Thanks.
You are correct on the Trinity and yes it is well beyond our comprehension. As for baptism we are to follow Jesus's example when John baptized Christ in the river.So of course I believe in the Son, Father and Holy Ghost, but I believe that they are all in one. Some Christian's like the one's who are into the Trinity believe that they are all separate spirits. Trinity is found no where in the Bible though. So how does that even make sense at all? I also have another question concerning the matter. So how about Baptism? Are there really several ways to Baptiste or is there really only one real way?
There are both one and three. 1x1x1 = 1 and 1+1+1 = 3So of course I believe in the Son, Father and Holy Ghost, but I believe that they are all in one.
Not three separate spirits but three Divine Persons.Some Christian's like the one's who are into the Trinity believe that they are all separate spirits.
That is beside the point. Here is what is found in the Bible.Trinity is found no where in the Bible though.
The doctrine of the Trinity is NOT supposed to make sense. It is simply to be believed.So how does that even make sense at all?
According to Scripture there is only one way to be baptized.So how about Baptism? Are there really several ways to Baptiste or is there really only one real way?
He posted that a few months back in another thread; I laughed so hard I had to go change my Depends......
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