Help me.

[tanzanos]

How do I know that God and Jesus were not the bad guys?
Why should I believe in one religion over another especially when all religions claim that they alone are the true religion of God?

Would it not be simpler to have God show himself? I doubt if people would deny his existence if he did; albeit I would be the first to sue him for crimes against humanity!

 

[razzelflabben]

Is God capable of preventing someone from going to Hell yes or no? If yes: the analogy stands. The "parent" is capable of saving the child, but doesn't for some reason.

He is capable if the child looks to Him, look at it this way, Jesus jumps in front of the oncoming car, but the kid, pushes Jesus away because he likes the pretty car that is coming straight for him.....did the parent try to save the child? Don't like a child who can push the parent away, okay, let's say that while the parent is standing in front of the child, taking the hit from the car, the child runs off into another path of a car....is the parent that is trying to save the child at fault?

Point is, according to the bible, Jesus is trying to protect you, me, everyone from the consequence of sin (being hit by a car), but lots of those people (children) are so spellbond by thier imaginary indistruction (no consequence to sin) that they run from one car path (sin) to the next, hounded the who time by Jesus undieing love. (parents trying to protect).

Cars killing kids are a function of the laws of physics. Laws of physics made by God by the way, but I won't blame Him for that (plenty of other good uses for physics..).

Are you claiming here that there exist "natural laws" that are not created by God?

What I am saying is that we do not know if the consequences of sin is the very natural law of God or if He wrote a law that says, the consequence of sin is death....Like the laws of physics, God's very nature (remember He was not a created being) has many good uses, so why blame Him for His very nature, as above, you have no issue with the natural laws...What you have a problem with is a God who writes a law condemning people to hell, problem is that though scripture does not specify which, there are hints that it is the nature of God not a "written" law. Scripture says things like, God can not look upon sin, that would indicate a natural law issue not a let's think up a law idea, so in our analogy.....the consequence of sin, (death) is the natural law of sin, it is the physics as it were....

 

[razzelflabben]

How do I know that God and Jesus were not the bad guys?

if you look at God and Jesus, what they stood for, what they did, etc. rather than try to color what they did and stood for you would know they are not the evil you portray....take for example the OT law, first misconception many have is that it is God's law, it is not, it is man's law, but God needed to temper that law so that the innocent would be protected (sounds like a horrible evil thing huh? Sarcasm) Point is, if all you see is the evil of man that is in the law, you miss the love for the abused that God insisted be placed in the law.

Why should I believe in one religion over another especially when all religions claim that they alone are the true religion of God?

well, as to why should you, that is a personal thing, but why I believe, is a matter of evidence, historical, as well as present day....I am currently working on a book by a professed atheist, "The Case for Christ" which looks at that evidence and explores it from a non believer standpoint, the author is Lee Strobel and again, just so it is less likely to be overlooked, it's about the evidence.

Would it not be simpler to have God show himself?

He has....

I doubt if people would deny his existence if he did; albeit I would be the first to sue him for crimes against humanity!

Which is my guess as to why you can't see Him, because you don't want to see Him.

 

[Veryangrymonk]

How do I know that God and Jesus were not the bad guys?
Why should I believe in one religion over another especially when all religions claim that they alone are the true religion of God?

Would it not be simpler to have God show himself? I doubt if people would deny his existence if he did; albeit I would be the first to sue him for crimes against humanity!

First off God has shown himself...but what did humanity do? It slowly forgot. Look at all the Epic stories in the bible. But you and many others play it off as gibberish so if God sent a ball of fire from the sky and it was very apparent that it was God. How many scientist and historians would rewrite what happened.

Saying "Why should I believe in one religion over another especially when all religions claim that they alone are the true religion of God?" is like saying
why should I work one job over the other. Its not up to the employer to come and explain why you should work for there company over the other. Its your loss.

My suggestion to you is seek out the truth by 1. reading and understanding the bible and what it says. 2. Asking God to show you. If you do this with a teachable heart and not a defiant one God WILL prove himself to you. In a way that you can not deny his exists.

 

[razzelflabben]

Worship or be damned, FEAR the Lord; Good lord; this is borderline torture and harassment! And you call this a religion of love and peace?


Have a very nice day

Salvation/heaven/God isn't about appeasing God, that is the pagan God mentality, Bible God is about Love.

 

[tanzanos]

Salvation/heaven/God isn't about appeasing God, that is the pagan God mentality, Bible God is about Love.

Firstly was it not God who gave Moses the 10 commandments? Now if we read them then we will clearly see a God who demands punishment by death for trivial things:

1st. Commandment, Exodus 20:3 “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”. Old Testament punishment - Deuteronomy 17:1-5 “And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heavens, which I have not commanded. Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing and shalt stone them with stones, till they die”. Deuteronomy 13:6-10, “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is of thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God." Exodus 22:20 “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed”. New Testament punishment - Mark 16:16 “He that believeth not, shall be damned”.
2nd. Commandment, Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below.” Old Testament punishment- Deuteronomy 27: 1 5 “Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image.” This is where God tells us not to be artists.

3rd. Commandment, Exodus 20:7 “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 24:16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death”, New Testament punishment - Matthew 12:32 “Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come”. Mark 3:29 - “He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgivness, but is in danger of eternal damnation”.
4th. Commandment, Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 31:15 “Whosoever shall work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death”. Numbers 15:32. “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day…And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
5th. Commandment, Exodus 20:12 “Honour thy father and thy mother”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 21:15-17 “And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death”. More punishment - Exodus 21:17 “And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death”.How many of you are willing to kill your children if they curse you?

6th. Commandment, Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill”. This hypocrisy is beyond me; for it clearly states that you should not kill yet God commands us to kill in the other commandments.

7th. Commandment, Exodus 20:14 “Thou shalt not commit adultery”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 20:10 “And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death”.


For those of you Christians who disregard the Old Testament (even though Christ said it was forever binding), Romans 1 :29-32 “Those filled with unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hate for god, despite, proud, boasters, inventions of evil things, disobedience to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, unnatural affection, implacable or unmerciful nature: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death”. Who amongst you is willing to kill someone for the above?
If God has shown himself to you Veryangrymonk then what does he look like? Why show himself to you and not to the millions of worshippers who are dying of hunger, who are persecuted, who live in squalor?
Here are some more killing commandments:



Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1)If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)



Now please tell me that this is a religion of love and peace?

 

[razzelflabben]

Okay, let's look at each one

Firstly was it not God who gave Moses the 10 commandments? Now if we read them then we will clearly see a God who demands punishment by death for trivial things:

1st. Commandment, Exodus 20:3 “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”.

the 10 commandments are the law given to the people by God..the old testament law was the law God permitted because of man's hardened heart, therefore, we can only look at the 10 commandments for an understanding of God's heart as to the law, any other understanding is based on the combination of man's law and how God tempered it. So let's start here, no punishment is issued along with the law, only what you are not allowed to do.

Old Testament punishment - Deuteronomy 17:1-5 “And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heavens, which I have not commanded. Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing and shalt stone them with stones, till they die”. Deuteronomy 13:6-10, “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is of thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God." Exodus 22:20 “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed”. New Testament punishment - Mark 16:16 “He that believeth not, shall be damned”.

oh how much I would like to say here, but need to keep this in a post

Much of the bible is written with an understanding of God's perspective, especially since it is God's law...In God's perspective, eternal is the key, the temperal is like a "vapor" quickly gone. So when we look at this law and the punishment we see a God whose understanding of the eternal is so determined and so serious, that this life has no meaning in comparison It's a protective law, that understands the eternal nature we cannot.

Now let me say this before we go on, whether we agree or not, doesn't matter as much as understanding God's perspective. Let's see, an example of what I am saying...our youngest loves to pet dogs...so we have a dog in the neighborhood that is known to be dangerous. Our son insists on petting the dog, but we insist that he doesn't..our son begins to throw a fit over the whole thing. Point is, God knows things we don't, He understands things we don't..in order to understand God/bible, we have to first understand or at least try to understand what God knows. He knows that the eternal is more important than the temperal and His compromise to man's law reflects His love and protection of what we do not understand or know.

2nd. Commandment, Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below.” Old Testament punishment- Deuteronomy 27: 1 5 “Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image.” This is where God tells us not to be artists.

No, God does not ban artistic nature, in fact, there are places in scripture where God encourages it, what it does do is stop people from worshipping the things that cannot save. Let's take that eternal nature once again, God understands that the eternal is the important thing, so in the first commandment, God shows the importance of the eternal, the seriousness of what we don't understand...the second commandment shows a protective nature of man, a protection that points man to the saving grace, the way to eternal life.

Also note, no punishment...so we see that temperal life leads to death (stoning) and worshiping God not images leads to life. Wow how evil (sarcasm)

3rd. Commandment, Exodus 20:7 “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 24:16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death”, New Testament punishment - Matthew 12:32 “Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come”. Mark 3:29 - “He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgivness, but is in danger of eternal damnation”.

blasphemy, is to deny that Jesus is the Christ....now, look at scripture, our salvation is in believing that Jesus is the Christ, so if we refuse that, we die...same thing we see in Gen. The consequence of sin is death, sin is disobeying God. Hum? so we see that the consequence of sin is death and that somehow is God being evil. Seems to me that you are directing your anger at God.

4th. Commandment, Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 31:15 “Whosoever shall work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death”. Numbers 15:32. “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day…And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”

Two issues here, first again, God's law shows no punishment, only the things that we are to do or not do. So far, you aren't making your case very well. But let's look at the sabbath

First we see that the sabbath is made for man not God, in other words, the sabbath is for the good of man, not the evil treatment of man...it's a day of rest, time off, how horrible (more sarcasm) that God would demand employers to give their employees a break, what evil will they come up with next.

But wait, we aren't done, you include the OT law in your account and this is an awesome example of what I spoke of earlier. Jesus spoke out against the way man was using the law of sabbath, He told them they were messing it up, that they were abusing the command of God. So we see that the OT law is man's law with God's tempering, not God's evil...He is trying to temper the evil that man is putting into life, just like the understanding of the sabbath.

5th. Commandment, Exodus 20:12 “Honour thy father and thy mother”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 21:15-17 “And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death”. More punishment - Exodus 21:17 “And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death”.How many of you are willing to kill your children if they curse you?

remember that the law of God places reward not punishment for honoring one's father and mother. Again, you are confusing God's law with man's law.

6th. Commandment, Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill”. This hypocrisy is beyond me; for it clearly states that you should not kill yet God commands us to kill in the other commandments.

actually translation says murder, but hey, whatever, war is usually not considered murder and this is evidence in a court of law...

7th. Commandment, Exodus 20:14 “Thou shalt not commit adultery”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 20:10 “And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death”.

and again, what did Jesus say to the people when the woman was taken in adultery? He said, "he who is without sin cast the first stone." Don't confuse man's law and God's law.

 

[razzelflabben]

Part II

For those of you Christians who disregard the Old Testament (even though Christ said it was forever binding), [/quote] it is very relavent to man today, don't try to confuse what I am saying with this arguement that the OT is no longer for the church, it absolutely is,, you just need to understand where it belongs

Romans 1 :29-32 “Those filled with unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hate for god, despite, proud, boasters, inventions of evil things, disobedience to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, unnatural affection, implacable or unmerciful nature: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death”. Who amongst you is willing to kill someone for the above?

death, this comes up a lot with you, and yet the bible starts with death in GEn. Go figure, the bible says that the consequence of sin is death and throughout the bible we see the reoccurance of death as the result of sin...

If God has shown himself to you Veryangrymonk then what does he look like? Why show himself to you and not to the millions of worshippers who are dying of hunger, who are persecuted, who live in squalor?

I'm not veryangrymonk, but I will answer, He has, and I listed some of the ways He has in a previous post.

Here are some more killing commandments:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1)If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)



Now please tell me that this is a religion of love and peace?

After the above explanation, please let me know if we need to address each of these other things individually or if you are beginning to understand better what the bible and God are about...man's law (the OT law) was full of evil, rape, murder, fornication, slavery, etc. etc. etc. Man's law permitted these things, God comes along and says look, I don't want you doing these things, but if you insist, then I will insist that you temper it with grace, mercy, kindness..I will insist that you care for those to abuse, because my commands, my understanding, my desire, my being loves and yours should too. Now how evil is that really? Let's take our kids again, they don't understand the dangers that lurk, they insist on being disobedient children.

I have an aunt who told her boys, argue all you want but not throwing punches...same idea applies here to God, hurt each other if you must, but the innocent need protected and that is when I am going to step in. sounds pretty loving to me.

 

[tanzanos]

Let's take our kids again, they don't understand the dangers that lurk, they insist on being disobedient children.

I have an aunt who told her boys, argue all you want but not throwing punches...same idea applies here to God, hurt each other if you must, but the innocent need protected and that is when I am going to step in. sounds pretty loving to me.

So if your kids are disobedient to you then you are willing to kill them? We are talking about God's very own commandment here and Jesus himself admonished the Pharisees for NOT killing disobedient children. Now if you will be so kind and answer this question:
"If your child curses you and or hits you; will you kill it"? A very straightforward question demanding a straightforward answer. Remember now that I am Quoting the Bible unaltered, yet you on the other hand are giving me your interpretation of the bible.

Will you kill in accordance to God's commandments?

 

[razzelflabben]

So if your kids are disobedient to you then you are willing to kill them?

You seem to not be listening to what I have been saying all this time...let's try again, the consequence of sin is death, not the punishment. If man's punishment is death, and God tempers that punishment with kindness, where is the comparison between God and my disobedient kids and killing them?

We are talking about God's very own commandment here and Jesus himself admonished the Pharisees for NOT killing disobedient children.

again I got ta say God's command, which command? What admonishment of the Pharisees about not killing disobedient children, or whatever your point is? I'm not a mind reader, put your comments in context with the discussion and see if that helps my understanding...

Now if you will be so kind and answer this question:
"If your child curses you and or hits you; will you kill it"?

no and your point?

A very straightforward question demanding a straightforward answer. Remember now that I am Quoting the Bible unaltered, yet you on the other hand are giving me your interpretation of the bible.

what command of God tells me to kill my child for disobedience? Keep in mind the previous discussion about the difference between man's law which says to kill the child who strikes his parents and God's law which promises a reward for honoring your parents....we can also look at God's instruction on how to teach your children, that of precept upon precept, not provoking to anger, and repeated instruction....So I can't follow what you think you are arguing against???? Are you trying to say that the laws of man in the OT are evil, agreed, they are and were evil, in fact, the OT shows us a good portrait of how evil man can really be...but as to God, God's law is a very different law, a very freeing law, a law that does not offer punishment because the consequence is clear.

Will you kill in accordance to God's commandments?

Yes, as best as I am able to do, but not man's evil laws, God's loving laws....maybe you need to reread my post, it seems that your hostility is preventing you from reading what I am saying. Edit: keep in mind that none of God's commands tell me to kill anyone, which makes the question very easy indeed.

 

[tanzanos]

You seem to not be listening to what I have been saying all this time...let's try again, the consequence of sin is death, not the punishment. If man's punishment is death, and God tempers that punishment with kindness, where is the comparison between God and my disobedient kids and killing them? again I got ta say God's command, which command? What admonishment of the Pharisees about not killing disobedient children, or whatever your point is? I'm not a mind reader, put your comments in context with the discussion and see if that helps my understanding... no and your point? what command of God tells me to kill my child for disobedience? Keep in mind the previous discussion about the difference between man's law which says to kill the child who strikes his parents and God's law which promises a reward for honoring your parents....we can also look at God's instruction on how to teach your children, that of precept upon precept, not provoking to anger, and repeated instruction....So I can't follow what you think you are arguing against???? Are you trying to say that the laws of man in the OT are evil, agreed, they are and were evil, in fact, the OT shows us a good portrait of how evil man can really be...but as to God, God's law is a very different law, a very freeing law, a law that does not offer punishment because the consequence is clear.Yes, as best as I am able to do, but not man's evil laws, God's loving laws....maybe you need to reread my post, it seems that your hostility is preventing you from reading what I am saying. Edit: keep in mind that none of God's commands tell me to kill anyone, which makes the question very easy indeed.

You are dismissing the BIBLE? Whenever it suits you you claim that it is man's law and whenever it suits you you claim it is God's law? Are you saying that the 10 Commandments are NOT God's law? Really now, how much more Hypocricy will you exhibit! I though that Christians adhere to the Bible? Yet you seem to give your own interpretations. God clearly gives instruction in the Bible to kill in many instances as I have shown to you. The bible is either to be taken as Gods word or it should be dismissed as a book written by men, and it is their own making; thus should not be accepted as God's word.

Your choice!

Have a nice day

 

[razzelflabben]

You are dismissing the BIBLE?

how am I dismissing the bible? When God tells the people, "you got it wrong, your screwing up," it seems to me that we should assume that from God's point of view, the people got it wrong, they were screwing up....I don't know, I try hard to take people at their word, not reinvent what they are saying, that goes for God as well...Now there were two very clearly stated demonstrations of this in your post....1. the sabbath, and 2. adultry...in both cases, God (Jesus) told the people they had it wrong, they were screwing up the message of God by taking what He wanted and making it about law, not grace. We see this throughout the bible but these two are really clear. Jesus (aka God) said to the people, stop abusing each other by adding to what I desire for you. "your messing it up, you got it wrong"

Whenever it suits you you claim that it is man's law and whenever it suits you you claim it is God's law?

I have not changed what I have said yet...in the OT God gave man over to his sinful ways, He let man have things His way, but He also tempered their evil....Nothing in that statement changes at will. Now I realize that that would destroy your objections and therefore upset you, and that is yours to bear, but to falsely accuse me of the above is problematic to discussion much less to respect of one's ideas and beliefs. You aren't being asked to accept it, but rather you are being answered according to what we know from scripture.

Are you saying that the 10 Commandments are NOT God's law?

I was pretty clear that the 10 commandments were God's law, but I also pointed out that that law presented no punishment, and only once reward....much different than the OT law that included the evils of man....So which of the 10 commandments do you think is evil? Is it evil to honor your parents? How about not murdering, is that evil? None of the 10 commandments seems evil to me much less most of the world, in fact, most people (at least years ago in a survey done) thought that the 10 commandments were good moral code to live by....but you are applying man's evil to them and then attributing it to God.

Really now, how much more Hypocricy will you exhibit!

you might want to look up the definition of hypocricy before accusing someone falsely.

I though that Christians adhere to the Bible?

I do, and have demonstrated that to you.

Yet you seem to give your own interpretations.

not at all, bible interprets bible.

God clearly gives instruction in the Bible to kill in many instances as I have shown to you.

right, the OT, the part of the bible that is History....what there do you want to discuss? You started talking about the law, then shifted to History and honestly there wasn't enough room to cover both sufficiently.

The bible is either to be taken as Gods word or it should be dismissed as a book written by men, and it is their own making; thus should not be accepted as God's word.

agreed, which is why it is important to understand it...

 

[Jackinbox78]

I remember asking myself that question as a young boy. I pulled on that straw and well, now, I'm an atheist. Why would I want to believe in a God who hold as its most important value, above all rest, that I believe in him and love him. Imagine someone for whom the most important thing is that we worship him. What would you think of that person? In some countries the head of the state is a person just like that and I'm more than happy to not live in such country.

 

[tanzanos]

how am I dismissing the bible? When God tells the people, "you got it wrong, your screwing up," it seems to me that we should assume that from God's point of view, the people got it wrong, they were screwing up....I don't know, I try hard to take people at their word, not reinvent what they are saying, that goes for God as well...Now there were two very clearly stated demonstrations of this in your post....1. the sabbath, and 2. adultry...in both cases, God (Jesus) told the people they had it wrong, they were screwing up the message of God by taking what He wanted and making it about law, not grace. We see this throughout the bible but these two are really clear. Jesus (aka God) said to the people, stop abusing each other by adding to what I desire for you. "your messing it up, you got it wrong" I have not changed what I have said yet...in the OT God gave man over to his sinful ways, He let man have things His way, but He also tempered their evil....Nothing in that statement changes at will. Now I realize that that would destroy your objections and therefore upset you, and that is yours to bear, but to falsely accuse me of the above is problematic to discussion much less to respect of one's ideas and beliefs. You aren't being asked to accept it, but rather you are being answered according to what we know from scripture. I was pretty clear that the 10 commandments were God's law, but I also pointed out that that law presented no punishment, and only once reward....much different than the OT law that included the evils of man....So which of the 10 commandments do you think is evil? Is it evil to honor your parents? How about not murdering, is that evil? None of the 10 commandments seems evil to me much less most of the world, in fact, most people (at least years ago in a survey done) thought that the 10 commandments were good moral code to live by....but you are applying man's evil to them and then attributing it to God. you might want to look up the definition of hypocricy before accusing someone falsely. I do, and have demonstrated that to you. not at all, bible interprets bible. right, the OT, the part of the bible that is History....what there do you want to discuss? You started talking about the law, then shifted to History and honestly there wasn't enough room to cover both sufficiently. agreed, which is why it is important to understand it...

So basically You are clearly saying that NOT ALL in the bible is God's word? Please indicate which of the following is wrong and against God's word:

1st. Commandment, Exodus 20:3 “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”. Old Testament punishment - Deuteronomy 17:1-5 “And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heavens, which I have not commanded. Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing and shalt stone them with stones, till they die”. Deuteronomy 13:6-10, “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is of thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God." Exodus 22:20 “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed”. New Testament punishment - Mark 16:16 “He that believeth not, shall be damned”.
2nd. Commandment, Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below.” Old Testament punishment- Deuteronomy 27: 1 5 “Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image.” This is where God tells us not to be artists.

3rd. Commandment, Exodus 20:7 “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 24:16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death”, New Testament punishment - Matthew 12:32 “Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come”. Mark 3:29 - “He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgivness, but is in danger of eternal damnation”.
4th. Commandment, Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 31:15 “Whosoever shall work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death”. Numbers 15:32. “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day…And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
5th. Commandment, Exodus 20:12 “Honour thy father and thy mother”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 21:15-17 “And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death”. More punishment - Exodus 21:17 “And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death”.How many of you are willing to kill your children if they curse you?

6th. Commandment, Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill”. This hypocrisy is beyond me; for it clearly states that you should not kill yet God commands us to kill in the other commandments.

7th. Commandment, Exodus 20:14 “Thou shalt not commit adultery”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 20:10 “And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death”.

 

[visionary]

So basically You are clearly saying that NOT ALL in the bible is God's word? Please indicate which of the following is wrong and against God's word:

1st. Commandment, Exodus 20:3 “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”. Old Testament punishment - Deuteronomy 17:1-5 “And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heavens, which I have not commanded. Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing and shalt stone them with stones, till they die”. Deuteronomy 13:6-10, “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is of thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God." Exodus 22:20 “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed”. New Testament punishment - Mark 16:16 “He that believeth not, shall be damned”.
2nd. Commandment, Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below.” Old Testament punishment- Deuteronomy 27: 1 5 “Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image.” This is where God tells us not to be artists.

3rd. Commandment, Exodus 20:7 “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 24:16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death”, New Testament punishment - Matthew 12:32 “Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come”. Mark 3:29 - “He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgivness, but is in danger of eternal damnation”.
4th. Commandment, Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 31:15 “Whosoever shall work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death”. Numbers 15:32. “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day…And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
5th. Commandment, Exodus 20:12 “Honour thy father and thy mother”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 21:15-17 “And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death”. More punishment - Exodus 21:17 “And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death”.How many of you are willing to kill your children if they curse you?

6th. Commandment, Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill”. This hypocrisy is beyond me; for it clearly states that you should not kill yet God commands us to kill in the other commandments.

7th. Commandment, Exodus 20:14 “Thou shalt not commit adultery”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 20:10 “And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death”.

All the highlighted red is the curse of the law that our Lord did away with at the cross.

 

[Jackinbox78]

All the highlighted red is the curse of the law that our Lord did away with at the cross.

Do you mean that christians should scrap most of the old testament? Those that mean the old testament isn't so sacred after all? I thought it was to words of God. Where is the sacred interpretation guide of the OT?

 

[R3quiem]

... we are locked in a war we do not even understand, all we have to really do is pick sides.

How could picking sides in a war you don't understand possibly be a good idea?

By what basis would choose which side to be on if you didn't understand the war?

This mindset is dangerous.

 

[visionary]

Do you mean that christians should scrap most of the old testament? Those that mean the old testament isn't so sacred after all? I thought it was to words of God. Where is the sacred interpretation guide of the OT?

Make the same distinction that God made... that which He wrote on stone and placed inside the ark... and that which He had Moses write on parchment and placed outside the ark.

Even when it was acted out in the sanctuary services.. all that was written on the parchment was outside the ark... most of it outside the Most Holy.. except the Day of Atonement... and a lot of it was outside the Holy temple in the outer courtyard where the sacrifices were handled. And then there was that which was only in the camp. So it is with our temple... where there is only that which is written in stone which is to be in the heart now. We are to see our Lord as the Lamb of God fulfilling all the sacrifices of the outer court, and as our High Priest in the Holy Temple.

 

[kotwebck]

How could picking sides in a war you don't understand possibly be a good idea?

By what basis would choose which side to be on if you didn't understand the war?

This mindset is dangerous.

It's even more dangerous not picking a side. We are not part of this and the battle is over, the satan has been defeated when Jesus died on the cross. Judgement is done we are just awaiting the sentence.

By what basis ... we'll, me personally, I prefer to pick the winning side or the strongest side.

No ... seriously, pick the side that would take care of you, love you and help you, no matter who you are or what you've done etc. That way even life on this earth could be bearable - and you get yourself saved for eternity, with a God as a best friend and Father.

 

[tanzanos]

All the highlighted red is the curse of the law that our Lord did away with at the cross.

So now you are saying that all the bible is to be discarded and ONLY the 10 commandments are to be kept? Where does it say that the "curse of the law" is done away with?



This is not a multiple choice question. Either the Bible is God's word or it is not. One cannot choose what to keep and what to ignore!